Questions for the conspiracy crowd

[Glaz]

A few questions I would like answers to, in your own words not links/ cut and paste from some other websites.

1. If the government secretly demolished the WTC with planted explsoives, why did they go through all of the trouble with the planes? Wouldn't it have been easier to just say "the terrorists planted bombs inside the WTC", especially since they tried that before?

2. If the government did fake 9/11, why didn't they conspire to plant all manner of damning WMD evidence against Saddam Hussein in Iraq? Why did they only do this one conspiracy? It wouldn't have been difficult to plant a nuke or two in a desert crawling with tens of thousands of our own troops, would it?

3. What happened to the people on the planes? Did the government fake their cell phone calls from the planes? Did the government just invent all those people, all of their relatives, were they all in on it, or did they 'disappear' them as some here have alluded to?

4. What was the government, or whoever was behind it, motive? Why does the government need to fake terrorist attacks when so many already occur anyway (or are they all fake) ?


5. Do you think its possible you are allowing your own personal political point of view/ affiliation influence you in this matter? Do you think it is possible you could be wrong?


I thank you if you take the time to answer and hope we can keep this respectful. I am often accused by certain individuals here of not taking them seriously so here is your chance: I'm not looking for in-depth evidence, just say what you think in your own words, and I will give them honest consideration. If you do not believe me, just don't respond, ok? And if you want to answer with questions in return, please start your own thread. Thanks.

 

[Law of Loud]

6. Do you not believe a government in full-fledged conspiracy has both the nerve and ability to fly a few airplanes into the Twin Towers, thus reducing the need for demolitions?

7. If so, why do you believe that they would have gone with such an unbelievable authoritative story (skyscrapers falling from airplane impacts within hours)?

 

[ElvisFan42]

I'd like to know how they planted all of those explosives in the WTC buildings with no one noticing.

 

[TeddyKGB]

6. Do you not believe a government in full-fledged conspiracy has both the nerve and ability to fly a few airplanes into the Twin Towers, thus reducing the need for demolitions?

You can't be serious. The government decided to use aluminum passenger tubes-cum-napalm missles so they wouldn't need so many demolition explosives?

Please tell me I am misunderstanding.

7. If so, why do you believe that they would have gone with such an unbelievable authoritative story (skyscrapers falling from airplane impacts within hours)?

It's only unbelievable if you listen solely to the talking heads who have some interest in promoting half-truths and lies.

 

[k9catts]

I'd like to know how they planted all of those explosives in the WTC buildings with no one noticing.

Actually I think Bushco was so inept it could not have prevented 911 even if they had an engraved invitation to view the crashing of the planes into the WTC.

 

[ews]

1. If the government secretly demolished the WTC with planted explsoives, why did they go through all of the trouble with the planes? Wouldn't it have been easier to just say "the terrorists planted bombs inside the WTC", especially since they tried that before?

You are right! The conspiracy talk is just that talk. Having said that, I would like to know how those two buildings could come down just as if it were a demolition job.

 

[mwb]

Good luck getting answers. I saw an article in the paper that stated one third of the U.S. think the 9/11 were planned by the Bush Admin.

Unbelievable. These are probably the same people who think they know what is best for Iraq. I'd rather stay the course then listen to people who are out of touch with reality.

 

[TheMissus]

Good luck getting answers. I saw an article in the paper that stated one third of the U.S. think the 9/11 were planned by the Bush Admin.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

 

[mwb]

Or a Daily Show viewer. Or a Farenheit 9/11 fan.

 

[MoonlessNight]

I really feel compelled to post a link that I think that I shouldn't for a variety of reasons. A certain running commentary from a certain author who could certainly be called a conspiracy theorist. But his take on these things is a far cry from what you usually associate with the conspiracy theorists.

The reasons I don't post the link:

1.) I think that the content of the site may make it against forum rules.
2.) I don't want to flood the site with people coming from here. It does allow comments after all.

Anyway I'm not going to give my answers, or even his answers, but the general sort of answers that you get from that community.

1. If the government secretly demolished the WTC with planted explsoives, why did they go through all of the trouble with the planes? Wouldn't it have been easier to just say "the terrorists planted bombs inside the WTC", especially since they tried that before?

2. If the government did fake 9/11, why didn't they conspire to plant all manner of damning WMD evidence against Saddam Hussein in Iraq? Why did they only do this one conspiracy? It wouldn't have been difficult to plant a nuke or two in a desert crawling with tens of thousands of our own troops, would it?

3. What happened to the people on the planes? Did the government fake their cell phone calls from the planes? Did the government just invent all those people, all of their relatives, were they all in on it, or did they 'disappear' them as some here have alluded to?

Planes actually hit the towers and the towers fell for pretty much the stated reasoning. Therefore the answers to these questions is simple.

4. What was the government, or whoever was behind it, motive?

I don't think that there is one universal answer to this but I think the one you'd hear most often is for political gain. With the caveat that the situation is much much more complicated than that and that we aren't seeing the whole picture.

Why does the government need to fake terrorist attacks when so many already occur anyway (or are they all fake) ?

But how many get the public attention like 9/11 did? Also I think that you would get the answer that the attacks where, in most senses of the word, real terrorist attacks.

Do you think you could be wrong, and that perhaps your just letting your imagination run away with you?

A paranoid imagination perhaps but not a fanciful one. Some people jump to the conclusion for a variety of reasons, but I think a great deal of people who suggest government complicity in 9/11 only came to the conclusion after a great deal of thought, and with a great deal of dread. It's not the type of thing you want to believe is true.

It's hard for me to make any sure statements because ultimately I'm a 9/11 agnostic. I'm involved in that particular conspiracy community for the other things, not that particular issue. I'm just trying to give a perspective that is out there but is not heard.

EDIT: Oh, I guess I should outline what the 9/11 conspiracy theory is if you accept the planes hitting the buildings and all that. I suppose it most of all revolves around government complicity: either intentional ignorance of an incoming attack or plans for an attack, suspicions that the hijackers arrested were not really the hijackers, suspicion about Osama bin Laden's exact role in the whole mess (though I think most people agree that he was invovled in a signficant way) and so forth. But those claims are generally less interesting to talk about, and you can't really make a neat flash movie about them.

 

[Loukuss]

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ya, that 2/3's really need some help. Or medication. Maybe both. Ya. definitely both. Definitely.

 

[Loukuss]

Some people jump to the conclusion for a variety of reasons, but I think a great deal of people who suggest government complicity in 9/11 only came to the conclusion after a great deal of thought, and with a great deal of dread. It's not the type of thing you want to believe is true.

Well said.

 

[heron]

Another 9-11 agnostic here. (I like that term.)

Seeing the entire administration as involved in one maniacal plan is the type of thinking that leads others to think it's ridiculous. We voted for many of these people. We went to school with them, sent our kids to work with them... if there are shadow plans, they are certainly not the evil scheme of every person who aspired to be a government employee.

But relationships are complex, and corruption has existed within governments since the beginning of time. Our Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights (US) were written in reaction to government corruption.

We in the US have been very fortunate over our lifetime. All over the world, civilians are oppressed by militant groups and dictators and greedy representatives. We are naive to think that we are immune to corruption and manipulation.

Look at the percentage of corruption or manipulation you see in your workplace, your schools, your neighborhoods... greed and control and unspoken plans are not imaginary.

Several years ago, an author wrote about a series of policies that could be put into place that would encroach on our privacy and subject us to obsessive identification tagging. A friend and I talked about this, and it seemed unreal that these plans would ever be accepted by the public. My friend declared that the only way the American public would go for these ideas, would be a major panic, like war.

Since then, every time a controversial bill goes up for a vote, the news pulls up one frightening story that makes the bill worth passing. A few weeks ago it was immigration issues, this week it was spinach --and the dangers were very real -- but it happens to fall within a time that people are setting up the in-depth tracking of UPC bar codes from farm to factory to road to shelf to homes.

Farmers are writing articles resisting the additional expense and labor -- they have to purchase the scanners, and scan each animal every time it leaves the premises for a fair or a vet appointment.

We bit our lips and nodded approvingly with airport checks and iris identification at the borders. We're cheering for fudging prisoner rights when they might be terrorists. Look at the Bill of Rights, and see how many of our protective standards we have bent in the name of panic.

I'm not saying that there is an evil plot. But look at how many laws and procedures have changed in the last five years.

What if a few years down the road, another entity or ruling body tried to take control of parts of our government, or corrupt people filled influential positions --
We have set ourselves up for very tight government control.​

 

[Daniel19]

Very estute, Heron!

This is another viewpoint on 9/11 that you have pointed out - the aftermath here in America.

Even if you don't buy the theories that the government was invovled in 9/11, the tyranny which sprung from the ashes of the towers is becoming more and more visible.

As you pointed out, heron, governments throughout history have always been corrupt. Liberty and freedom are the crown jewels of civilisation - and they must be fought visciously for, both in receiving them and maintaning this treasure. We have had it so good for so long, the milk and honey which our freedom has provided us with has made us forget the valuble lessons which our history teaches us.

People have a hard time believing that there are ruthless people who want to gain power, or are in power currently. So many people are well meaning, good individuals, and they see the world through that lense - other good people trying to do only good. Unfortunately, this is not reality, and we must face this if we are to survive.

How much further to full blown tyranny?

Will there be a future generation that will have to fight when we stood still?

Just a note - If anyone wants to find out about what heron refers to in reference to the farmers, look up the NAIS (National Animal Identification System)

 

[heron]

Take away the Washington element for a minute, and just consider that there might be people who know how our government reacts when faced with situations....people who study the behavior and know our soft spots. The OBL videotapes have already shown that the plan is to attack us economically. What else might be crumbling/melting under the guise of necessary response?

 

[Glaz]

Even if you don't buy the theories that the government was invovled in 9/11, the tyranny which sprung from the ashes of the towers is becoming more and more visible.

Could you give us examples please, specifically, could you tell us about the freedoms that you have lost?

Also, do you have any response to the questions in the OP?

 

[Glaz]

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

They aren't stupid, they just think something strange is going on, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Daniel19]

Could you give us examples please, specifically, could you tell us about the freedoms that you have lost?

Also, do you have any response to the questions in the OP?

Could you give us examples please, specifically, could you tell us about the freedoms that you have lost?

Incremental erosion of liberty, soupysayles, is the key.

Police State, n, A state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the people, especially by means of a secret police force.

A few examples:

Documents:

Virginia training manual lists “Property Rights Activists” as terrorists (PDF)

Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation terrorism training manual says those who make “frequent references to the US constitution” are possible terror suspects, as well as “defenders of the US constitution”. (front) (back)

Videos:

General Michael Hayden, director of CIA says no probable cause listed in 4th amendment

Woman shot with rubber bullet, police laugh

A bit of humor: The Daily Show: Living in a Police State

Articles:

Agents scrutinize all in name of surveillance

Spies Among Us

FBI Keeps Watch on Activists

America’s Secret Police?

Smoking and the short step to a police state

Police memos say arrest tactics calmed protest

Simpsons ‘trump’ first amendment

Reporter Palast slips clutches of Homeland Security

Stewart’s add terror tip number to milk cartons

NSA bill performs a patriot act

Also, do you have any response to the questions in the OP?

The questions posed are difficult to answer, and if I do attempt to answer them it will effectively be a straw man argument, because it would be purely speculation on my part. I have questions, soupysayles, questions that raise very serious issues with the official story that so far have yet to be answered.

 

[Glaz]

Incremental erosion of liberty, soupysayles, is the key.

Police State, n, A state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the people, especially by means of a secret police force.

A few examples:

Documents:

Virginia training manual lists “Property Rights Activists” as terrorists (PDF)

Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation terrorism training manual says those who make “frequent references to the US constitution” are possible terror suspects, as well as “defenders of the US constitution”. (front) (back)

Videos:

General Michael Hayden, director of CIA says no probable cause listed in 4th amendment

Woman shot with rubber bullet, police laugh

A bit of humor: The Daily Show: Living in a Police State

Articles:

Agents scrutinize all in name of surveillance

Spies Among Us

FBI Keeps Watch on Activists

America’s Secret Police?

Smoking and the short step to a police state

Police memos say arrest tactics calmed protest

Simpsons ‘trump’ first amendment

Reporter Palast slips clutches of Homeland Security

Stewart’s add terror tip number to milk cartons

NSA bill performs a patriot act



The questions posed are difficult to answer, and if I do attempt to answer them it will effectively be a straw man argument, because it would be purely speculation on my part. I have questions, soupysayles, questions that raise very serious issues with the official story that so far have yet to be answered.

All those links you posted, I would think you have more than enough information to be able to give us more than mere speculation I would like to hear what people actually think for once, not just be given a list of links and vague musings.

 

[TheMissus]

They aren't stupid, they just think something strange is going on, and there is nothing wrong with that.

That's debatable.