Question regarding john 20:17

[Yahudim]

So, then, it is your belief that He did assend on the day of His resurrection?
I am searching for Scriptural proof because few believers I know believe He did...that when speaking to Mary at the empty tomb, he was referring to 40 days later.
Also, as it is written, many graves of OT saints were opened at His death.
Could these saints have been His wave offering to The Father?

I must say that I have learned more from Jewish believers in Christ than gentiles.
I very much appreciate your responce.

No.

Yahweh entrusted Scripture to the Jews. /Israelites.

Yahweh made /created all things simple.
Men came up with many inventions/ distractions.

There's over a billion false answers promoted by the world false religion. The False is Much more common than simple truth revealed by Yahweh. The false stories (like m.v.) are even promoted on this forum when they don't "break rules" so to speak.

No.
If you were to go fishing
in a lake nearby, that has toxic chemicals in it, and this was something known a long time,
would you want someone to let you know BEFORE you ate anything you caught in that lake ?

Basically finding answers is not as easy as one would hope. Deception is quite rampant and thorough everywhere. It has been that way since the first century, and of course before that even.
Remember Jesus is Jewish. This helps in the long run. Makes some people angry in the short run.

Basically I quoted Scripture. If you want to continue to deny and to dispute Scripture, that's your choice.

Scripture? Where? I don't see it.

 

[Yahudim]

I thought you knew Scripture.

You quoted two or three of them here:

Do you know what QUOTE means? Do you know what CITATION means? You can't even tell me how many scriptures you allege I quoted.

Random general statements about scripture is not quoting scripture. Sweeping generalizations are not citations. Nor is it an acceptable response to a specific query about a specific scripture.

 

[Grafted In]

@Grafted In ??? Hey brother, you out there? Bill?

Yes, I am still here watching this thread closely.
I thank everyone who has responded.

Bill

 

[daq]

Yahweh made /created all things simple.

Basically I quoted Scripture. If you want to continue to deny and to dispute Scripture, that's your choice.

I thought you knew Scripture.

Without knowing such well known , simple plain English Scripture (no need to get into Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic here)....
what can anyone do ?

Pray.

Let's take your first quoted statement above herein: it may or may not be true that the Creator made/created all things simple concerning the scripture, but if it is indeed true concerning the scripture, then that would only apply in the original languages in which the scripture was written, meaning Hebrew, Greek, and some small portions of Aramaic such as in Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezra, etc., (very small portions except for about six full chapters in Daniel). So then, within the time frame and Hebrew culture in which the scriptures were written, perhaps indeed everything was simple to understand. However this necessarily means that one must first understand those languages, and also the culture in which they were written, in order for the discourses and teachings in the scripture to be found simple. Yet, by your final statement quoted above herein, it is apparent that you are not reading the scriptures in the original languages and must instead rely on translators and their translations to be accurate representations of what is written in the original languages in the scripture.

In other words you are putting faith in a third party to accurately reflect what the scriptures say and teach in the original languages, so that you do not need to study and learn those languages and culture for yourself, in order for the scripture to be plain and simple for you to read, understand, and believe. However, once translators get involved two thousand years after the fact, when both Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Koine Greek had essentially become dead languages, all bets are off on how simple it will all be to understand because you really have no guarantee that the translations(s) you are reading from are accurate enough, for you have placed your trust and faith in your favorite translator(s) to do that difficult (life-long) work for you.

With this one logic error alone perhaps it is not wise to say to someone, I thought you knew the scripture, for it appears to be a logical fallacy on your part, assuming that you yourself know the scripture while it appears that you are not able to prove that you do indeed know the scripture, for (apparently) you do not read and understand the original languages. You say it is all simple but you appear to be speaking only of English translations. I have never seen an English translation that I believed to be perfect: translator bias always creeps in because it is unavoidable, for no language can be translated perfectly into another language, and especially not word for word, (although those are the best translations). Interpretive decisions must be made by translators no matter how knowledgeable they are in the original scripture languages. Perhaps I may be wrong but I do not think you fully realize these things for putting a little too much faith in translations.

 

[Yahudim]

Let's take your first quoted statement above herein: it may or may not be true that the Creator made/created all things simple concerning the scripture, but if it is indeed true concerning the scripture, then that would only apply in the original languages in which the scripture was written, meaning Hebrew, Greek, and some small portions of Aramaic such as in Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezra, etc., (very small portions except for about six full chapters in Daniel). So then, within the time frame and Hebrew culture in which the scriptures were written, perhaps indeed everything was simple to understand. However this necessarily means that one must first understand those languages, and also the culture in which they were written, in order for the discourses and teachings in the scripture to be found simple. Yet, by your final statement quoted above herein, it is apparent that you are not reading the scriptures in the original languages and must instead rely on translators and their translations to be accurate representations of what is written in the original languages in the scripture.

In other words you are putting faith in a third party to accurately reflect what the scriptures say and teach in the original languages, so that you do not need to study and learn those languages and culture for yourself, in order for the scripture to be plain and simple for you to read, understand, and believe. However, once translators get involved two thousand years after the fact, when both Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Koine Greek had essentially become dead languages, all bets are off on how simple it will all be to understand because you really have no guarantee that the translations(s) you are reading from are accurate enough, for you have placed your trust and faith in your favorite translator(s) to do that difficult (life-long) work for you.

With this one logic error alone perhaps it is not wise to say to someone, I thought you knew the scripture, for it appears to be a logical fallacy on your part, assuming that you yourself know the scripture while it appears that you are not able to prove that you do indeed know the scripture, for (apparently) you do not read and understand the original languages. You say it is all simple but you appear to be speaking only of English translations. I have never seen an English translation that I believed to be perfect: translator bias always creeps in because it is unavoidable, for no language can be translated perfectly into another language, and especially not word for word, (although those are the best translations). Interpretive decisions must be made by translators no matter how knowledgeable they are in the original scripture languages. Perhaps I may be wrong but I do not think you fully realize these things for putting a little too much faith in translations.

Brother, did you see the link I posted in the 'Strong's Deception' thread hosted by @HARK! It seems that even the Rabbinim don't trust their own translations, preferring the LXX instead.

 

[daq]

Brother, did you see the link I posted in the 'Strong's Deception' thread hosted by @HARK! It seems that even the Rabbinim don't trust their own translations, preferring the LXX instead.

I hadn't seen it yet, but thanks for the link, and I'll watch it tonight seeing it is only a half hour.

EDIT: I just watched the whole thing. That was great.

 

[Yahudim]

I hadn't seen it yet, but thanks for the link, and I'll watch it tonight seeing it is only a half hour.

EDIT: I just watched the whole thing. That was great.

That video is part 3 in the series. The whole series is well worth the time. The implications are far reaching, so I am going back to the beginning for the third time. Lot's to research, but much of it is sequestered within the world of Rabbinic orthodoxy and I cannot find much of it - or any English translations of the research.

We may now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[daq]

That video is part 3 in the series. The whole series is well worth the time. The implications are far reaching, so I am going back to the beginning for the third time. Lot's to research, but much of it is sequestered within the world of Rabbinic orthodoxy and I cannot find much of it - or any English translations of the research.

We may now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Regarding what was said about the haftarah, I got a similar inkling a while back researching the timing of the immersion accounts, because of what is found in Luke 4:16-21, where the Master reads from Yeshayah 61:1-2a.

Nitzavim is in the 51st week of the year, just before the going out of the year in the fall, and Yeshayah 61:10-63:9 is the haftarah portion for Nitzavim. If the Yeshayah passage was indeed read at the end of the year in the fall then this would have placed the immersion account just before that time according what appears to be the case from the context in Luke 4, (immediately following the temptation account). However I found that none of this may be taken as proven or absolutely sure because the Master may have been reading the portion at the opposite end of the year, in the spring, to make a point, (???), so I left it as an unknown but did notice that the Nitzavim haftarah appears to have skipped the beginning of Yeshayah 61 intentionally, (which would most likely only be due to what occurred in Luke 4).

Okay, not to derail any further, now back to the regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Yahudim]

Regarding what was said about the haftarah, I got a similar inkling a while back researching the timing of the immersion accounts, because of what is found in Luke 4:16-21, where the Master reads from Yeshayah 61:1-2a.

Nitzavim is in the 51st week of the year, just before the going out of the year in the fall, and Yeshayah 61:10-63:9 is the haftarah portion for Nitzavim. If the Yeshayah passage was indeed read at the end of the year in the fall then this would have placed the immersion account just before that time according what appears to be the case from the context in Luke 4, (immediately following the temptation account). However I found that none of this may be taken as proven or absolutely sure because the Master may have been reading the portion at the opposite end of the year, in the spring, to make a point, (???), so I left it as an unknown but did notice that the Nitzavim haftarah appears to have skipped the beginning of Yeshayah 61 intentionally, (which would most likely only be due to what occurred in Luke 4).

Okay, not to derail any further, now back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Good catch!

 

[daq]

Yes, indeed, you are wrong, but I do not know where to , or even if to, try to begin to find out why.

Great, please explain the proper time of day for the sacrifice of the Pesakh lamb according to the simplicity of the following text, (or from your own preferred translation if it is different).

Exodus 12:5-6 KJV
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

 

[Yahudim]

Let's everyone take a deep breath and say a little prayer, ok? We are all just trying to communicate and this obviously isn't working out. So let's back up and start here:

Yes, indeed, you are wrong, but I do not know where to , or even if to, try to begin to find out why.

Please forgive me Aaron, but making simple blanket statements without context and insinuating that people are ignorant because they have no idea what you are trying to say, doesn't seem to be a very productive strategy for communicating with the brethren (sisters included). It seems as though you are frustrated, right? Let me see if I can offer some helpful hints. Let's take this post for example:

Yahweh made /created all things simple.

In my experience, people have been trying to unravel the depths of the creation story for thousands of years. In some ways you are correct. He said it and *BANG* it happened! But surely, that isn't all that happened, is it? In some ways this statement is of no help.
@daq, @HARK! and many other members here in the MJ forum have made some stunning and intricate discoveries about the Creation story that far-reaching implications.
I personally have noted a deep tapestry of interconnected strands of truth whereby we can see a confluence of thematic topics and events that directly link the Creation account to key events in the Exodus story, the furnishings of the tabernacle, the Appointed Times and many other beautiful revelations. So I hope that you can see where being a little more specific might help us to understand what you are trying to say.

Every time I tried to convey I didn't understand what you were trying to say, the response...

Basically I quoted Scripture. If you want to continue to deny and to dispute Scripture, that's your choice.

...wasn't very informative. The next one...

I thought you knew Scripture.

...was even more obtuse. Look, I'm not trying to bust your chops. I simply have no idea what you are trying to communicate, except possibly some frustration.

I'm willing to communicate. We are all trying. So please try to be a little more descriptive and informative. Ok?

Shalom Shalom.

 

[Yahudim]

Exactly as I posted - I <hoped,thought,positive expectations> that you knew Scripture.

Paraphrasing random verses from Ecclesiastes isn't very definitive. Am I to assume that you know every verse of scripture from every possible translation and transliteration? How about Jubilees and Hanoch? If I throw a few random verses at you, you might or might not catch them. But we both know for sure, the average newbie wouldn't. And that isn't fair to anyone.

Most of us use Translation, Book, Chapter and Verse for a reason. For instance, the person that opened this thread came here looking for answers, not riddles. That is our hope. To be of service to the glory of His Name!

Thanks for clearing up your methods for me. It helps a lot. I hope you'll forgive me, but I have chores to do and errands to run.

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

Paraphrasing random verses from Ecclesiastes isn't very definitive. Am I to assume that you know every verse of scripture from every possible translation and transliteration? How about Jubilees and Hanoch? If I throw a few random verses at you, you might or might not catch them. But we both know for sure, the average newbie wouldn't. And that isn't fair to anyone.

Most of us use Translation, Book, Chapter and Verse for a reason. For instance, the person that opened this thread came here looking for answers, not riddles. That is our hope. To be of service to the glory of His Name!

Thanks for clearing up your methods for me. It helps a lot. I hope you'll forgive me, but I have chores to do and errands to run.

Yikes.
Your position reminds me of an algebra teacher asking for proof of operations after receiving a correct answer to an equation.
The seed produces after it's own kind is a simple enough answer toward the why, while the froward were/are caught in their presumptive craftiness/earthly wisdom.

This is the "Messianic Judaism" forum no? So it should be presumed that the members of qal are allowed to teach per the sop?

 

[daq]

This is the "Messianic Judaism" forum no? So it should be presumed that the members of qal are allowed to teach per the sop?

Insinuating that another member doesn't know the scripture is teaching? I call it flaming, so I guess it will just need to be reported in the future, since it is becoming obvious that trying to reason with wise flamers is a fruitless endeavor.

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

Insinuating that another member doesn't know the scripture is teaching? I call it flaming, so I guess it will just need to be reported in the future, since it is becoming obvious that trying to reason with wise flamers is a fruitless endeavor.

Who told you that I was your enemy

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

Insinuating that another member doesn't know the scripture is teaching? I call it flaming, so I guess it will just need to be reported in the future, since it is becoming obvious that trying to reason with wise flamers is a fruitless endeavor.

No.
You cant open hospitality with a threat on the womb with salt.. Yeesh .
The importance is finding good soil outside the gan area. W
orthy of working with even
the stubborn kind. After all their flesh would take a week to chew, punn intended

 

[daq]

Who told you that I was your enemy

My enemies are not flesh and blood.

 

[daq]

GNT
This is all that I have learned: God made us plain and simple, but we have made ourselves very complicated.
CEB
See, this alone I found: God made human beings straightforward, but they search for many complications.
CJB
This is the only thing I have found, that God made human beings upright, but they have devised many schemes.
KJ21
Lo, this only have I found: that God hath made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions.”
ASV
Behold, this only have I found: that God made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
AMP
Behold, I have found only this [as a reason]: God made man upright and uncorrupted, but they [both men and women]
have sought out many devices [for evil].”

Proverbs 1:1-7 KJV
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 1:20-33 KJV
20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

PS: The timing for the Pesakh sacrifice in (the Hebrew text of) Exodus 12:6 is extremely precise.

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

Proverbs 1:1-7 KJV
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 1:20-33 KJV
20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

PS: The timing for the Pesakh sacrifice in (the Hebrew text of) Exodus 12:6 is extremely precise.

Really.
I have a counter hr/chet

 

[daq]

Really.
I have a counter hr/chet

If two passages appear to contradict it is not the scripture which is in error.