question number three

[dogs4thewin]

OK so why is it that different groups of Christians like Baptist and other groups have so many different views? Some groups say baptize as babies some as adults. Some say it is OK to drink as long as you do not get drunk some say you should not drink at all. Other faiths like Islam have rules that for the most part (like drinking) they actually ALL agree on across the different sects. Does not appear to be so in Christianity.

 

[hedrick]

I think there are two sources of disagreement:

1) Jesus taught principles, not laws. He thought we should love God and each other. Mat 5 reinterprets several of the 10 commandments as focusing on intent. As a result he simply didn't answer all the specific questions we might like him to have answered. Churches make different decisions on things like baptism, both decisions intended to honor God. I don't see anything wrong about this. Where the problem arises is when people claim that their decision is the only one possible for Christians, and this is used in a way to isolate people.

2) Jesus was a radical. There's a tendency for movements started by radicals to lose the radical vision and turn into something more systematic, that captures some of what the leader taught, but missing something of the spirit. That happens at time in Christianity. Not that Christ is missing, but that the message turns in part into legalism. But since Jesus himself wasn't legalistic, the legalistic versions aren't entirely based on his teaching. As such, there are multiple versions.

Christianity is certainly not the only area that's like this. There are many approaches to parenting a child. There are different approaches to treating illnesses. Yet a child is better off with their parent, even if a different parent would do things differently, and a patient is better off being treated by a doctor, even if there are different approaches. Of course there is genuinely bad parenting and genuinely incompetent medicine. So there are limits. But the limits are wider than many Christians believe. But you can''t just sit off on the side and not do anything. You're better off to commit to a solid approach, while respecting people who follow other traditions.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I think there are two sources of disagreement:

1) Jesus taught principles, not laws. He thought we should love God and each other. Mat 5 reinterprets several of the 10 commandments as focusing on intent. As a result he simply didn't answer all the specific questions we might like him to have answered. Churches make different decisions on things like baptism, both decisions intended to honor God. I don't see anything wrong about this. Where the problem arises is when people claim that their decision is the only one possible for Christians, and this is used in a way to isolate people.

2) Jesus was a radical. There's a tendency for movements started by radicals to lose the radical vision and turn into something more systematic, that captures some of what the leader taught, but missing something of the spirit. That happens at time in Christianity. Not that Christ is missing, but that the message turns in part into legalism. But since Jesus himself wasn't legalistic, the legalistic versions aren't entirely based on his teaching. As such, there are multiple versions.

Christianity is certainly not the only area that's like this. There are many approaches to parenting a child. There are different approaches to treating illnesses. Yet a child is better off with their parent, even if a different parent would do things differently, and a patient is better off being treated by a doctor, even if there are different approaches. Of course there is genuinely bad parenting and genuinely incompetent medicine. So there are limits. But the limits are wider than many Christians believe. But you can''t just sit off on the side and not do anything. You're better off to commit to a solid approach, while respecting people who follow other traditions.

I understand each Christian having different views, but why is it that whole groups seem to think a certain way and it is like you are not part of that Christian faith or even not Christian if you do not believe that, yet another group of Christians (like whole churches) like say Baptists and Catholics have a different view and yet call themselves Christians, as well.

 

[Tnmusicman]

OK so why is it that different groups of Christians like Baptist and other groups have so many different views? Some groups say baptize as babies some as adults. Some say it is OK to drink as long as you do not get drunk some say you should not drink at all. Other faiths like Islam have rules that for the most part (like drinking) they actually ALL agree on across the different sects. Does not appear to be so in Christianity.

Unfortunatly, that is the case. I've often said that's one reason why the world looks at Christians as being a joke. We can't agree amongst ourselves so why does anyone want to experiance Christianity ?
I actually am a Christian but from my study on this very subject I have found that at least some of the differences in doctrines are involving rather trivial matters (not ALL but some). To simplify my belief I tend to follow the "as long as we all agree that Jesus is Lord,He died for us and rose again and by accepting the gift of salvation by faith one is saved".
Some believe baptism saves and some believe you can lose your salvation. Some believe predestination,ect.... I do feel very strongly that God looks at the heart and I feel as long as God can weed through all the differences and find the attempt of a pure heart while recalling a time when said individual made the conscious attempt at salvation in his/her chosen faith (as long as it is a BIBLICAL faith) then I feel God will recognize that decision.

 

[hedrick]

I understand each Christian having different views, but why is it that whole groups seem to think a certain way and it is like you are not part of that Christian faith or even not Christian if you do not believe that, yet another group of Christians (like whole churches) like say Baptists and Catholics have a different view and yet call themselves Christians, as well.

People tend to congregate with those who agree. That's why we have political parties and other organizations. And in some cases a church has to make a decision. Do we baptize infants or not? Whichever decision we make, people who agree with be attracted to our church.

I think it's rare for people to say that someone who disagrees on baptism isn't a Christian. This site uses a pretty common definition of Christian, and it includes pretty much the whole range of views you're talking about.

I will admit that some Protestants historically have regarded Catholics as not Christian. That's rarer today. Today the argument tends to be over groups with significantly different basic views, such as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. But Mormons have an extra Scripture, and see God as much closer to 3 separate people. I think JW's are Christians, just cultish and legalistic, but their rejection of the Trinity makes many Christians reject them. But the things you seem to have been thinking about involve different groups that most of us would regard as all Christian.

 

[Publius]

OK so why is it that different groups of Christians like Baptist and other groups have so many different views? Some groups say baptize as babies some as adults. Some say it is OK to drink as long as you do not get drunk some say you should not drink at all.

Because different people have different opinions. We're not the Borg.

The Bible gives us the liberty to disagree over non-essential doctrines and matters of adiaphora.

Other faiths like Islam have rules that for the most part (like drinking) they actually ALL agree on across the different sects. Does not appear to be so in Christianity.

Yeah, that's because we don't kill anybody who disagrees with us.

 

[Rhamiel]

well in Islam and Judaism there are differant schools of thought that have serious disagreements as well, there are differant styles of Budhism some that pray to gods and some that do not, that seems to be a huge differance
I do not want to sound insulting to the Protestants, but if you look at the ancient Churches, the ones started in the first thousand years of Christianity, the Eastern Orthodox, the Coptic, Roman Catholic, they all seem very close to eachother

 

[hedrick]

I do not want to sound insulting to the Protestants, but if you look at the ancient Churches, the ones started in the first thousand years of Christianity, the Eastern Orthodox, the Coptic, Roman Catholic, they all seem very close to eachother

So are the churches that go back most directly to the Reformation, i.e. Lutheran and Reformed / Presbyterian.

 

[Rhamiel]

So are the churches that go back most directly to the Reformation, i.e. Lutheran and Reformed / Presbyterian.

very true very true
Lutheran, Presbeterian
In my mind the Church of England has always kinda been stuck between low church and high church but we do not want to get too off topic here

 

[Radagast]

OK so why is it that different groups of Christians like Baptist and other groups have so many different views?

Well, the list of what's agreed is longer than the list of what isn't. Read Mere Christianity, for example.

Other faiths like Islam have rules that for the most part (like drinking) they actually ALL agree on across the different sects.

I assume you say that because you have a shallow understanding of the range of opinions within Islam -- perhaps because most Muslims live in other countries, and because most Muslim theology is not written in English.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

OK so why is it that different groups of Christians like Baptist and other groups have so many different views? Some groups say baptize as babies some as adults. Some say it is OK to drink as long as you do not get drunk some say you should not drink at all. Other faiths like Islam have rules that for the most part (like drinking) they actually ALL agree on across the different sects. Does not appear to be so in Christianity.

I had a couple beers with my devout Muslim friend a few days ago. He didn't eat the pulled pork sandwiches though

If you really begin to explore any large religion (Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Judaism, etc), you will find a huge variety of opinion within the religion: different schools of thought, liberals and conservatives, reactionaries and revolutionaries. Just take a look at this list of Islamic schools of thought. Or this table of Hindu schools of thought.

And these are just the intellectualized, academic distinctions. Meeting people of different faiths has always surprised me because they are often totally unlike what their academic, philosophical description would have them be.

All the things you mention don't really matter. If you talk to younger Christians (<25), a lot of the denominational distinctions have very much melted away.