Question about Orthodox history

[daveleau]

Hi everybody!

I have a few questions about Orthodox history. I am fairly familiar with Catholic and Anabaptist/Baptist history. I know there is a smattering of evidence that shows that the Paulicians and various other named groups (alleged to all be Anabaptists according to some texts) were prosecuted through the early years of Christianity and that the Catholic Church originated in the late 300's AD. But, I have never seen any mention of the Orthodox lineage. I know Orthodox believers make claims to the apostles. I was wondering if someone could give me some info on the history of the Orthodox church. Was Orthodoxy persecuted? Did it split from or originate from one of the first churches?

Thanks !

God bless you,
Dave

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

The Orthodox and Catholic churches were the same until 1054, when Rome broke away, and she has been growing further and further from the original ever since.

Don't even get me started about that "Trail of Blood" type stuff that claims Emperor Constantine "invented" the "Catholic Church".

Read "The Orthodox Church" by Kallistos Ware - it is a very complete history. There's also some good info on my webpage, http://stienekel.tripod.com/ Check out esp. the link to Phil Thompson's site - he has some great historical stuff.

Welcome to TAW!

LK (Moses' wife)

 

[choirfiend]

Oooooooh, honey, you are in for a re-writing of the history you have learned...be prepared for a shocker!!

Others will write things---here's a link to The Orthodox Church, a fairly easy history book that can be found online as well as at your local Barnes and Nobles...

The Orthodox Church - Kallistos Ware

 

[choirfiend]

Orthodoxy began with Pentecost and has never ceased...

btw, welcome to TAW...hope you enjoy it here, and keep asking whatever pops up!

 

[WhiteTiger2999]

If i remember correctly, well i was taught that during a certain war cant remember which one, between the Catholics and some other, Orthodoxy didnt necessarily break off or form, it kinda stayed the same. I think, thats what i was taught. Then again I could have been taught blindly.

 

[choirfiend]

TIGER,
read that book too, if you can.

 

[WhiteTiger2999]

OO yes deffinately!! oh my goodnes, thank you so much for that link. It will deffinately help me in understanding more about Orthodoxy. You are the best!!
Much love...

 

[Shubunkin]

I have been wanting to order that book in the worst way.... but it will have to wait until we pay for "repairs" of one thing or another that broke recently. You know, normal maintenance type of things... but it's NEXT on my list to order at Amazon. I can't wait.

 

[choirfiend]

You can get it for as low as $4 plus 3.49 shipping, you realize...

If you;re ok with reading text from the internet, the link I posted is the ACTUAL book as text online.

 

[prodromos]

I have a few questions about Orthodox history. I am fairly familiar with Catholic and Anabaptist/Baptist history. I know there is a smattering of evidence that shows that the Paulicians and various other named groups (alleged to all be Anabaptists according to some texts) were prosecuted through the early years of Christianity and that the Catholic Church originated in the late 300's AD. But, I have never seen any mention of the Orthodox lineage. I know Orthodox believers make claims to the apostles. I was wondering if someone could give me some info on the history of the Orthodox church. Was Orthodoxy persecuted? Did it split from or originate from one of the first churches?

FWIW I live in Thessaloniki and go to the church that was founded there by Paul. Same deal in Corinth, Philippi and Berea. All these churches can trace their origin back to the Apostle Paul.

John.

 

[Kolya]

Hi Dave,
Welcome to TAW. And yes, PLEASE read the links that were posted. As Choirfiend stated - you're in for a shock!

 

[Philip]

I have a few questions about Orthodox history. I am fairly familiar with Catholic and Anabaptist/Baptist history. I know there is a smattering of evidence that shows that the Paulicians and various other named groups (alleged to all be Anabaptists according to some texts) were prosecuted through the early years of Christianity and that the Catholic Church originated in the late 300's AD.

It may surprise you to learn that the Paulicans were allies of the Muslims. They were instrumental in helping Islam overtake Asia Minor. In particular, they are responsible for the sacking of Ephesus.

 

[daveleau]

It may surprise you to learn that the Paulicans were allies of the Muslims. They were instrumental in helping Islam overtake Asia Minor. In particular, they are responsible for the sacking of Ephesus.

Very interesting. I tend to see their persecution in the writings and understand that history is written by those who are in power. So, I'm gonna take tidbit one with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the links and the book recommendations, everybody! I'll check them out. I am somewhat familiar with the very basic ideas of Orthodox history (at least the segment about tracing back to the apostles), so I probably won't be too shocked.

 

[Philip]

So, I'm gonna take tidbit one with a grain of salt.

Take it however you want, but it is well documented history:

"and the neighbouring hills were covered with the Paulician fugitives, who now reconciled the use of the Bible and the sword. During more than thirty years, Asia was afflicted by the calamities of foreign and domestic war; in their hostile inroads, the disciples of St. Paul were joined with those of Mahomet; and the peaceful Christians, the aged parent and tender virgin, who were delivered into barbarous servitude, might justly accuse the intolerant spirit of their sovereign. So urgent was the mischief, so intolerable the shame, that even the dissolute Michael, the son of Theodora, was compelled to march in person against the Paulicians: he was defeated under the walls of Samosata; and the Roman emperor fled before the heretics whom his mother had condemned to the flames. The Saracens fought under the same banners, but the victory was ascribed to Carbeas; and the captive generals, with more than a hundred tribunes, were either released by his avarice, or tortured by his fanaticism. The valour and ambition of Chrysocheir, (19) his successor, embraced a wider circle of rapine and revenge. In alliance with his faithful Moslems, he boldly penetrated into the heart of Asia; the troops of the frontier and the palace were repeatedly overthrown; and pillage Asia Minor. the edicts of persecution were answered by the pillage of Nice and Nicomedia, of Ancyra and Ephesus; nor could the apostle St. John protect from violation his city and sepulchre (Gibbons, The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire, chap liv)​

By the way, have you read Key of Truth? It is a text written by the Paulicans. It contains such wonderful statements as

"Blessed art thou, Spirit of the Heavenly Father, forasmuch as thou wast made by the Father." (Key, 14).

"It was in the season of his [Jesus'] maturity that he received baptism; then it was that he received authority, received the high-priesthood, received the kingdom and the office of chief shepherd. Moreover, he was then chosen; then he won lordship... Then he became Savior of us sinners; then he was filled with the Godhead." (Key, 75).
​

 

[xristos.anesti]

Obviously that history is written by those who are in power or those who win to be more precise, otherwise it wouldn't be a history but a science fiction. LOL

 

[MariaRegina]

Hi everybody!

I have a few questions about Orthodox history. I am fairly familiar with Catholic and Anabaptist/Baptist history. I know there is a smattering of evidence that shows that the Paulicians and various other named groups (alleged to all be Anabaptists according to some texts) were prosecuted through the early years of Christianity and that the Catholic Church originated in the late 300's AD. But, I have never seen any mention of the Orthodox lineage. I know Orthodox believers make claims to the apostles. I was wondering if someone could give me some info on the history of the Orthodox church. Was Orthodoxy persecuted? Did it split from or originate from one of the first churches?

Thanks !

God bless you,
Dave

Dear David:

I am curious as to where you learned the above. My Baptist brother also believes the same as you were taught and he tells me that the history books are all wrong.
He never mentioned the Early Church Fathers.

Have you heard about Oral Roberts University. There are many Orthodox converts coming out of that seminary because once they start studying the Early Church Fathers, then they start searching for the Original Orthodox (right believing, correct worshipping) Church. Oral Roberts is now nicknamed "St. Vlads of the South".

YSIC
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Looking for a Christ-Centered Church?​

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o ... We are not Jewish ........ but we are Orthodox.

o ... We are not Roman ........ but we are Catholic. *

o ... We are not Protestant .... but their Bible came from us.

o ... We're not Denominational .... because we're Pre-Denominational.



* The Nicene Creed states .... we believe ...
"in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church."

 

[Philip]

Obviously that history is written by those who are in power or those who win to be more precise, otherwise it wouldn't be a history but a science fiction. LOL

What a wonderfully incorrect statement. If this were true, how do we know about the holocaust? How do we know about Soviet gulags? How do we know about the Jewish rebellions against the Romans? How do we know about slavery in the Americas? How do know about internment camps for the Japanese in Hawai'i? How do we know about the extermination of Native Americans?

Statements such as 't history is written by those who are in power or those who win' reveal nothing but a ignorance of the science of history.

 

[Philip]

You might try reading Baptist Successionism by the Baptist scholar James McGoldrick:

"When, by means of the Key, the Paulicans are permitted to speak for themselves, it becomes crystal clear that they were not Baptists. In fact, when judged by a traditional creed or standard of orthodoxy, they cannot be regarded as Christians at all" (Baptist Successionism , 34)​

Another good book is Baptist Successionism: A Critical View, written by another Baptist, W. Morgan Patterson, an associate professor of church history at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He comments on such writings as Trail of Blood by saying that Although the belief was widespread among nineteenth-century Baptists and is still often cited today, the author demonstrates that it rests largely on the insecure footing of books written long ago by unscholarly, careless, or even biased historians.

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

I'm pretty familiar with the idea of "Baptist successionism." Not to be rude, but it's absolute fiction.

Incidentally- the line of "succession" used to trace back the Baptist Church to Christ is the same line used by Jehovah's Witnesses and Oneness Pentacostals.

Here's The Trail of Blood. I think this is where most of this fanciful history originated.

Again- I'm not trying to be rude, and I apologize if I'm being harsh.

Moses (Katherine's husband )