Preparing To Be A Help Meet by Debi Pearl

[Verve]

Has anyone read this?
Preparing To Be A Help Meet by Debi Pearl

Thoughts and comments appreciated.

 

[Thunder Peel]

Obviously I'm not a woman but this seems like a neat book. I think it's great for both men and women to work on their relationship with God and prepare themselves to be a loving and supportive spouse.

 

[HazelWings]

That was interesting. It's hard to say anything about it since I haven't read it, and from experience there are some books that didn't sound interesting to me but once I started it turned out to be so much better than the teaser. My opinion is that any tool a person can get their hands on to prepare themselves for a successful marriage is a win.

 

[Inkachu]

Sorry, but everything about that article made my skin crawl. It had "apron, cookies, gardening, and servitude" written all over it. It's also obviously been written by someone trying to promote the book, not objectively critique or review it. The fact that it repeatedly denies that the book encourages "wife abuse" or "slave labor" comes across as a little too defensive to me as well.

I mean...
"The young ladies who took the class grew in the Lord and came away joyful that they were privileged to receive such excellent instruction."
...seriously? How does the writer of this article know if someone else has "grown in the Lord" unless he/she sat down and personally interviewed each girl? How in the world would he/she know that they were all "joyful"?

Meh. No.

 

[Nienna_Lady_of_Tears]

Edit oops accident post in Singles. Only clicked on the link, didn't notice it was in singles, sorry.

 

[Miles]

Obviously I'm not a woman but this seems like a neat book. I think it's great for both men and women to work on their relationship with God and prepare themselves to be a loving and supportive spouse.

This.

Ideally, husbands and wives should have a heart to serve each other. Christ himself took on the nature of a servant. Shouldn't that be our attitude as well? I'm not talking about being a pushover or bossing loved ones around, but actively contributing to the relationship rather than simply taking from it.

As far as the defensiveness goes, I wonder how many things that my mom and dad did for each other might be considered "slave labor" these days. My mom did most of the cooking and cleaning, but my dad did things like mow the lawn and fix the plumbing. None of those activities are particularly glamorous, but they did them with love. Unfortunately, too many modern women and men seem to find the the basic menial aspects of married life beneath them... and then they wonder why their marriages are unhappy.

 

[Inkachu]

Edit oops accident post in Singles. Only clicked on the link, didn't notice it was in singles, sorry.

Your post was important, I wish you would've left it

This. Ideally, husbands and wives should have a heart to serve each other. Christ himself took on the nature of a servant. Shouldn't that be our attitude as well? I'm not talking about being a pushover or bossing loved ones around, but actively contributing to the relationship rather than simply taking from it.

As far as the defensiveness goes, I wonder how many things that my mom and dad did for each other might be considered "slave labor" these days. My mom did most of the cooking and cleaning, but my dad did things like mow the lawn and fix the plumbing. None of those activities are particularly glamorous, but they did them with love. Unfortunately, too many modern women and men seem to find the the basic menial aspects of married life beneath them... and then they wonder why their marriages are unhappy.

The difference (for me) is whether things are done out of a desire, a passion, a conviction that it's the right thing to do; or is it done out of guilt, pressure, shame, self-repression, or because it's what's "expected" by family, society, or religion.

Your mother (and countless others) cooked and cleaned and did the traditional female roles with love, and that's a beautiful thing. But if she'd harbored a desire to do something else with her life, and was told by others that if she didn't marry and cook and clean and have kids, that she wasn't being a good woman, or a real woman, or a godly woman... THAT is where I have a problem. It's not about the activities or roles themselves; it's about forcing people into them through guilt or pressure or haranguing.

I mean, how many countless books, sermons, speeches, etc, are out there, telling us even today that a REAL woman of God should only ever desire to be a wife and mother, and maybe a career woman if she juggles it all carefully enough? Where are the encouragements for girls to pursue their passions as single women, if they feel called to it? Nowhere that I've ever seen. I know firsthand what it's like for a woman to put her entire life on hold for her family, while her intelligence and talents never get put to use. Then the kids are gone and her husband is aging and needs her to care for him and she's never gotten to be anything but "wife" and "mom". And that's it for her. Would she have chosen the same path if she'd been told in her youth that she could still be a beautiful, wonderful, godly woman without getting married? Or without having children? I wonder.

I can't say enough times that I am in no way AGAINST the traditional family. I think that that's what God intends for many people, maybe even most people. But it seems like the majority never likes to see a minority doing something different; they want to see everyone doing what they're doing so they never feel like they've missed out on something. I might not feel the same way as those here who desire the house, kids, picket fence, PTA meetings, etc. But I admire and respect them immensely; I consider the traditional, nuclear family the foundation of our country.

I just wish people (especially the Church) would recognize and encourage singles - not just YOUNG singles, but singles of ALL ages - to follow God's calling, whatever it may be. And I just don't see that much.

/ridiculously long, rambling rant

 

[Miles]

The difference (for me) is whether things are done out of a desire, a passion, a conviction that it's the right thing to do; or is it done out of guilt, pressure, shame, self-repression, or because it's what's "expected" by family, society, or religion.

Your mother (and countless others) cooked and cleaned and did the traditional female roles with love, and that's a beautiful thing. But if she'd harbored a desire to do something else with her life, and was told by others that if she didn't marry and cook and clean and have kids, that she wasn't being a good woman, or a real woman, or a godly woman... THAT is where I have a problem. It's not about the activities or roles themselves; it's about forcing people into them through guilt or pressure or haranguing.

I mean, how many countless books, sermons, speeches, etc, are out there, telling us even today that a REAL woman of God should only ever desire to be a wife and mother, and maybe a career woman if she juggles it all carefully enough? Where are the encouragements for girls to pursue their passions as single women, if they feel called to it? Nowhere that I've ever seen. I know firsthand what it's like for a woman to put her entire life on hold for her family, while her intelligence and talents never get put to use. Then the kids are gone and her husband is aging and needs her to care for him and she's never gotten to be anything but "wife" and "mom". And that's it for her. Would she have chosen the same path if she'd been told in her youth that she could still be a beautiful, wonderful, godly woman without getting married? Or without having children? I wonder.

I can't say enough times that I am in no away AGAINST the traditional family. I think that that's what God intends for many people, maybe even most people. But it seems like the majority never likes to see a minority doing something different; they want to see everyone doing what they're doing so they never feel like they've missed out on something. I might not feel the same way as those here who desire the house, kids, picket fence, PTA meetings, etc. But I admire and respect them immensely; I consider the traditional, nuclear family the foundation of our country.

I just wish people (especially the Church) would recognize and encourage singles - not just YOUNG singles, but singles of ALL ages - to follow God's calling, whatever it may be. And I just don't see that much.

/ridiculously long, rambling rant

I get what you're saying, but gender roles aren't central to my point. Both of my parents did household tasks that would probably be considered "slave labor" these days. They weren't perfect, but they weren't above pulling their weight either... regardless of intelligence or accomplishments. Unfortunately, it seems that many people have become lazy and spoiled with a sense of entitlement. They're so focused on what they can get out of the marriage that they forget the importance of contributing to it. Regardless of what one thinks of specific gender roles, don't most of us want loving and supportive spouses? The attitude is more important to me than the details of how it's expressed.

 

[Inkachu]

I get what you're saying, but gender roles aren't central to my point. Both of my parents did household tasks that would probably be considered "slave labor" these days. They weren't perfect, but they weren't above pulling their weight either... regardless of intelligence or accomplishments. Unfortunately, it seems that many people have become lazy and spoiled with a sense of entitlement. They're so focused on what they can get out of the marriage that they forget the importance of contributing to it. Regardless of what one thinks of specific gender roles, don't most of us want loving and supportive spouses? The attitude is more important to me than the details of how it's expressed.

Absolutely. The world doesn't owe any of us a darn thing.

 

[Amber.ly]

I mean, how many countless books, sermons, speeches, etc, are out there, telling us even today that a REAL woman of God should only ever desire to be a wife and mother, and maybe a career woman if she juggles it all carefully enough? Where are the encouragements for girls to pursue their passions as single women, if they feel called to it? Nowhere that I've ever seen. I know firsthand what it's like for a woman to put her entire life on hold for her family, while her intelligence and talents never get put to use. Then the kids are gone and her husband is aging and needs her to care for him and she's never gotten to be anything but "wife" and "mom". And that's it for her. Would she have chosen the same path if she'd been told in her youth that she could still be a beautiful, wonderful, godly woman without getting married? Or without having children? I wonder.

You probably won't see this in the church because its not Biblical. Nor is the push to get married and have children. The passions of our lives are supposed to center around Christ. Not a person, not a job, not a hobby and not education.

Our marital status is merely a circumstance that we are supposed to work around

Back on topic:

Have not read the book and would not be interesting in reading it. Preparation for marriage should be done as a couple getting ready to be married. If you are not there, I think it would be wisest to concentrate on where God has you right now.

This, perhaps, could be a prime example of what Paul was talking about that marriage takes away our focus. Even the desire to be married can be an issue when you spend your focus on marriage itself instead of serving God.

I could be totally off but there is my $0.02

 

[Inkachu]

You probably won't see this in the church because its not Biblical. Nor is the push to get married and have children. The passions of our lives are supposed to center around Christ. Not a person, not a job, not a hobby and not education.

Our marital status is merely a circumstance that we are supposed to work around

I'm kinda confused by this. Are you saying that you can't be passionate about Jesus AND about a hobby or a person if you're a Christian? Not talking about putting anything in the world above God, but if someone was born with a passion for say, science...isn't God the one who put that passion in them to begin with? If they pursue science with all that they have (and it never interferes with their walk with God, or ideally they use their gift and talent for God)...they're living an unbiblical existence somehow?

I guess I don't separate a Christian's life and activities from their faith. God is supposed to be part of every facet of our lives and our identities. So if I'm passionate about theater, I pursue theater in a godly fashion, loving everyone that I work with, witnessing anytime I can, praying for people who might have a need, making sure I don't engage in any productions that have ungodly themes or elements, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, aren't we supposed to carry our passion for Jesus INTO all our other activities and pursuits? As I've heard others say before, if we all sat around singing hymns and doing nothing else, the world would cease to function.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, or maybe I'm not making any sense lol.

 

[Amber.ly]

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, or maybe I'm not making any sense lol.

Place marked so I can come back and reply!

(I was on lunch at work when I first responded so I will have to wait for tonight to get into this)

 

[Wren]

"the women’s lib movement urges her to claim her rights as superior to men in many ways"

Not a great start, but I'll keep reading.

"The author recognizes that some problems in marriage result from personality weaknesses. Debi talks about the shy girl, the brassy girl, and the impatient girl, and how to deal with these negative traits."

What on earth is a "brassy girl?" I have a feeling that I have that "personality weakness."

"A few years ago I came across a quote from a 1950’s home economics textbook for junior high girls. The title of the clip was, “Slave Labor.” It was typical teaching in the 1950’s: girls should be prepared to be homemakers and to love and joyfully serve their husbands and children. Though others call it “slave labor,” God calls it “perfect, orderly design.”



I suppose that given Vicky's reaction to this book, I should not have been surprised by what I read, but I was. I have read books before that were for teaching women on how to be "Godly wives." And some of those other books (the titles escape me) were not bad, if that was the kind of home you wanted. This book disturbs me...or at least what I read of it. Vicky pretty much summarized my feelings on it. Excellent post, Vicky!

 

[Sketcher]

"A few years ago I came across a quote from a 1950’s home economics textbook for junior high girls. The title of the clip was, “Slave Labor.” It was typical teaching in the 1950’s: girls should be prepared to be homemakers and to love and joyfully serve their husbands and children. Though others call it “slave labor,” God calls it “perfect, orderly design.”



I suppose that given Vicky's reaction to this book, I should not have been surprised by what I read, but I was. I have read books before that were for teaching women on how to be "Godly wives." And some of those other books (the titles escape me) were not bad, if that was the kind of home you wanted. This book disturbs me...or at least what I read of it. Vicky pretty much summarized my feelings on it. Excellent post, Vicky!

Probably ought to actually read it before making snap judgments, eh? It would probably also help to know the difference between the Biblical submission that is called for vs. the harsher suppression that the pagan Roman writers called for as a backdrop, as I think it echos here. The world is constantly about dominance, and forcing people to do menial tasks with indignity. But the Christian is supposed to voluntarily do those same things people would make us do, not because we were told, but because they need to be done, and to do them with dignity.

 

[Inkachu]

Sketcher - so by that argument, the guys should be happy to stay in a kitchen 12 hours a day with 6 kids hanging off them while their bodies go to pot from constant child-rearing and they wake up one day 70 years old and wonder why they've never traveled more than 10 miles from home?

Woohoo! Line up, fellas

 

[Wren]

Probably ought to actually read it before making snap judgments, eh? It would probably also help to know the difference between the Biblical submission that is called for vs. the harsher suppression that the pagan Roman writers called for as a backdrop, as I think it echos here. The world is constantly about dominance, and forcing people to do menial tasks with indignity. But the Christian is supposed to voluntarily do those same things people would make us do, not because we were told, but because they need to be done, and to do them with dignity.

This book disturbs me...or at least what I read of it.<---apparent you missed when I posted that. I fully accepted that I was going purely based on the review and not the book itself.

You seem bothered by my post. I find this interesting. Are you shocked that a woman who embraces the title of feminist would post what I did? Anyway, I also think that you missed the part of my post where I said other books on that topic do a better job (based on the review, since I haven't read the book).

 

[IreneAdler]

Probably ought to actually read it before making snap judgments, eh? It would probably also help to know the difference between the Biblical submission that is called for vs. the harsher suppression that the pagan Roman writers called for as a backdrop, as I think it echos here. The world is constantly about dominance, and forcing people to do menial tasks with indignity. But the Christian is supposed to voluntarily do those same things people would make us do, not because we were told, but because they need to be done, and to do them with dignity.

knowing the difference between biblical submission and harsher supression (I refuse to think of it as "pagan Roman" because it's preached in the modern church today in some denoms) is subjective at best depending on your upbringing in church, your denom, your personal history and your version of biblical text.
subjugation is not about "menial tasks". It's a mindset, a believe of superiority... entitlement of one person above another. This idea is not limited to an age.
I'd venture to say everyone here would knuckle down and do "menial labor" without complaint... but when say (in my previous situation) you're told what to wear, where to go, how to act, what you can and can't do/say and basically who to be because you're "submitting" - that's what I refer to when I speak of the crock of something that is passed off as submission. I think most women are too.

 

[Sketcher]

Sketcher - so by that argument, the guys should be happy to stay in a kitchen 12 hours a day with 6 kids hanging off them while their bodies go to pot from constant child-rearing and they wake up one day 70 years old and wonder why they've never traveled more than 10 miles from home?

Woohoo! Line up, fellas

Fellas are already too busy working their hands to the bone to barely scratch by, wanting to be home with their families, only to have to put up with the mood swings of their wives and their ungrateful children.

This book disturbs me...or at least what I read of it.<---apparent you missed when I posted that. I fully accepted that I was going purely based on the review and not the book itself.

Then you can't honestly say it's enough information to go on to judge it, can you? It honestly sounds more like a preemptive defense against the hyper-feminists rather than an endorsement of ill-treatment (though I wouldn't call it well done at all).

You seem bothered by my post. I find this interesting. Are you shocked that a woman who embraces the title of feminist would post what I did?

No, but it doesn't make snap judgments about what the Bible calls for right.

Anyway, I also think that you missed the part of my post where I said other books on that topic do a better job (based on the review, since I haven't read the book).

Possible, but I'm not sure that you have enough information to make an informed judgment on that.

knowing the difference between biblical submission and harsher supression (I refuse to think of it as "pagan Roman" because it's preached in the modern church today in some denoms) is subjective at best depending on your upbringing in church, your denom, your personal history and your version of biblical text.

It's not subjective, because what the Bible teaches is objective.

subjugation is not about "menial tasks". It's a mindset, a believe of superiority... entitlement of one person above another. This idea is not limited to an age.

Right - but the Bible doesn't teach subjugation, but rather a certain kind of submission.

I'd venture to say everyone here would knuckle down and do "menial labor" without complaint... but when say (in my previous situation) you're told what to wear, where to go, how to act, what you can and can't do/say and basically who to be because you're "submitting" - that's what I refer to when I speak of the crock of something that is passed off as submission. I think most women are too.

What you're describing is about as far away from Biblical headship as the North Pole is from the South Pole. Best to not reject what the Bible teaches because some people twist what they think it says into something else completely.

 

[IreneAdler]

I realize what I was speaking of is far from what the bible teaches, unfortunately it's not far from what some denoms teach and what alot of men cling to and what most women say disgustingly when they spit out the word "submission" as a curse word because it's been so misused and abused as a topic.