Predestination

[Bones49]

What I'm saying is I didn't learn it from anyone —(I was not brought up Reformed nor Calvinist)— but I learned what I believe from Scripture, Reason and the utter vanity of the self-determination referred to as "Libertarian Free Will". The assumptions by which I arrive at God's determining all things, almost any believer agrees to, though the self-determinist strays a long ways, in my opinion, from a valid definition of omnipotence and 'sovereignty'.

Monergism was a tough pill to swallow, but in the end it was the only thing that makes sense, and it is the only way for me to have confidence in what God has done and will do. I am completely at God's mercy, and not by the integrity of my will.

Please don't think I'm trying to be defensive, I truly want to understand the Calvinist position, because I would say the total opposite, that the monergist's stray a long way from a valid definition of omnipotence and sovereignty - which king is more sovereign, the one who allows his subjects to do as they please, or the one who dictates what the subjects are allowed to do, and controls their every move (not that I think that is what Calvinism teachers)?

Can you help me understand your position?

 

[enoob57]

only thing that makes sense

I find this amusing... your system, tulip, God is not willing that all be saved yet God's says
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Whereby your system claims this as a mystery... yet it is a clearly an irrational view that claims both are true... whenever a yes and no to the same circumstance is given there remains no reasoning or the removal of reasoning...
God has called us to a specific reasoning with Him about salvation:
Isaiah 1:18 (KJV)
[18] Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I find this amusing... your system, tulip, God is not willing that all be saved yet God's says
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Whereby your system claims this as a mystery... yet it is a clearly an irrational view that claims both are true... whenever a yes and no to the same circumstance is given there remains no reasoning or the removal of reasoning...
God has called us to a specific reasoning with Him about salvation:
Isaiah 1:18 (KJV)
[18] Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Apparently you don't know my system. I don't claim nor posit any mystery. I am curious, though: Maybe you can explain how everything being necessarily a result of First Cause —God himself— is irrational.

 

[enoob57]

I don't claim nor posit any mystery.

Do you teach God is not willing to save all people?

Maybe you can explain how everything being necessarily a result of First Cause —God himself— is irrational.

Nothing in my post mentioned anything like this... it is either misunderstanding or assumption from you... Any theologian worth his salt knows God is the necessary being: The uncaused causal agent of creation...

 

[Mark Quayle]

Do you teach God is not willing to save all people?

What does that have to do with whether or not I appeal to mystery?


Mark Quayle said:
Maybe you can explain how everything being necessarily a result of First Cause —God himself— is irrational.

Nothing in my post mentioned anything like this... it is either misunderstanding or assumption from you... Any theologian worth his salt knows God is the necessary being: The uncaused causal agent of creation...

Your post, #22, said to me, "Whereby your system claims this as a mystery... yet it is a clearly an irrational view that claims both are true... whenever a yes and no to the same circumstance is given there remains no reasoning or the removal of reasoning..."

Post #22 intended that my view is irrational, no? Well, God being first cause means that everything else is a result of his causing. Not irrational at all. That is what I believe. So how is my belief irrational?

 

[enoob57]

What does that have to do with whether or not I appeal to mystery?


Mark Quayle said:
Maybe you can explain how everything being necessarily a result of First Cause —God himself— is irrational.

Your post, #22, said to me, "Whereby your system claims this as a mystery... yet it is a clearly an irrational view that claims both are true... whenever a yes and no to the same circumstance is given there remains no reasoning or the removal of reasoning..."

Post #22 intended that my view is irrational, no? Well, God being first cause means that everything else is a result of his causing. Not irrational at all. That is what I believe. So how is my belief irrational?

Perhaps it's a reading comprehension thing ... no idea this what was said:

I find this amusing... your system, tulip, God is not willing that all be saved yet God's says
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Whereby your system claims this as a mystery...

 

[enoob57]

a simple yes or no would be nice