Praying for the Sick

[Alithis]

If you think you can survive drinking poison then that's on you. I however think that the scripture is misunderstood. I see no reason to use one of those signs over the other. They are all included together. I cannot pick and choose which signs to believe so i believe them all. I do however know that they may not be understood correctly. So i will not drink poison or tell anyone to drink poison, and i wont tell anyone that if they have faith in Christ that they will be healed or escape death either. I must stick with what is clearly seen and not speculate. Paul teaches us about faith in Romans 8 and i follow that.

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. -heb 11v1

 

[Souldier]

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. -heb 11v1

That's talking about the Resurrection and heaven. Its not saying we should desire to drink poison and live. Its not saying we should tempt God as Satan told Christ to do. Its talking about looking toward heaven, not earth. His kingdom is not of this world. We regard no one in the flesh any more. We are to walk in the spirit, and that means that it doesn't matter if we live or die because we are now in the spirit. Our bodies just don't matter any more.That's the meat of the Word. Bond or free, its all the same. Sick or healthy, likewise all the same. We are to focus on what is not seen which is heaven and the resurrection, but not focus on things we see like death and sickness. Sure we can seek medical help but that doesn't mean we are promised anything but heaven and the Resurrection. That's our focus.


Do you not see how sickness can be like a sword? Are we promised that we will be delivered by the sword? No. The thief comes to kill steal and destroy yet the more abundant life is found in heaven, not earth.

 

[Souldier]

Paul says that the bond servant and the free man are both the same in Christ, we are all free in Christ. The flesh does't matter only the spirit matters and its that spirit which is free. God never promises to set bond servants free but he tells them they are free in Christ, in the spirit, in heaven which is eternal. Does this mean that a bond servant should not seek freedom if he can get it? No, Paul teaches us otherwise, However does it mean that a bond servant is unbelieving in the more abundant life? Does it mean he just doesn't accept the gift Christ promises? No, it doesn't mean that. We must stop looking in carnal ways and begin to see in spiritual ways. Healing is spiritual that is what is promised. the Abundant life is in heaven and that is what is promised, We are not promised to have an abundant life on earth, We are taught that this world doesn't matter. If we look at what paul teaches us we can see that this world just doesnt matter anymore.

WE ARE DEAD and our life is hidden in Christ, in heaven at Gods right hand.


Colossians 3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

1 Corinthians 7:21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.

 

[Souldier]

So i think healing is like being a bond servant. If we can get our freedom then great, but if not then it doesnt matter because we are free from this world anyway. If we can get healed then great, but if not then dont worry about what you cannot change, it really doesnt matter because we are going to heaven.

Where is the more abundant life for the slave? Its found in heaven.

 

[Alithis]

So i think healing is like being a bond servant. If we can get our freedom then great, but if not then it doesnt matter because we are free from this world anyway. If we can get healed then great, but if not then dont worry about what you cannot change, it really doesnt matter because we are going to heaven.

Where is the more abundant life for the slave? Its found in heaven.

If ? Why if? Is God not faithful to his word?

 

[Souldier]

If ? Why if? Is God not faithful to his word?

Yes hes faithful, i agree, its just that we don't agree on what he promised, thats all. You can quote those healing scriptures all you want but it wont change anything. Timothy still needed medication. Stephan was still stoned. Romans 8 still teaches that we we will not be spared from the sword or famine., And i still see illness like a sword. A man can pollute my environment and food with things that make me sick just as much as he can slay me with a sword. God will not spare me from that sword necessarily, he never promised that he would, but he promised that my life is waiting for me in heaven. I just dont see God promising me that i wont get killed in a car accident or by some maniac, or in other ways. I just dont see it in scripture. People get sick and its because we live in a world that isnt healthy. It happens.

 

[Frogster]

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. -heb 11v1

were the people of faith, hoping to be sawed in 2, in Heb 11?

 

[Frogster]

Romans 8 is about the carnal man.
Is that you?

Rom 8 is about both men.

 

[Frogster]

Of course we do not all need to be healed.
But it is available to all who will accept it.

If healing were guaranteed in the atonement, why don't all get instantly healed when saved? The did "accept" it, salvation, and Him.

 

[Frogster]

Love and faith are inseparable.

paul said differently in 1 Cor 13.

one can have faith, but no love.

 

[Frogster]

After reading the SOP, i dont know that i am breaking any rules. I have never dinied that spiritual gifts may still be given to members of the Church. I only try to prove things by scripture. I believe that if something is true then scripture will not contradict it.



I believe i follow these rules:

Spirit-Filled, Pentecostal and/or Charismatic believers can be from any denomination. They are those who believe that all the various spiritual gifts (or charisms) listed in the New Testament (including but not limited to the manifestations gifts found in I Corinthians 12:8-10) are active in the Church today and desirable in the life of the individual believer, for the edification of the Body of Christ. It is not required that the individual exercises/exhibits any specific spiritual gift(s)

2. No Promotion of works, observances or water baptism as a means to gain salvation or righteousness, or any other merit, or as mandatory to Christian living. Baptism however may be discussed as a sign of obedience to Christ.

Definition of discussion:
: the act of talking about something with another person or a group of people : a conversation about something
: a speech or piece of writing that gives information, ideas, opinions, etc., about something

you're doing just fine, keep going!

 

[Alithis]

It has been very interesting seeing the responses on the prayer request forum to sick people asking for prayer for healing.

Most responders tend to ask God to do the healing. The problem is, I don't see anywhere in the Bible where anyone ministering healing asked God to heal a sick person. I see many places where sick people have asked for prayer but not the other way around.

When Elisha received the request from Naaman, he told the man to go wash in the river Jordan. He did not ask God to heal him. Elisha gave an instruction and Naaman was healed.

When Jesus healed folks, He never asked God to heal them. He issued instructions like, "take up your bed", "go show yourself to the priest", "wash yourself in that pool". The woman with the issue of blood did not ask God for healing. She touched the hem of Jesus' garment and was healed. When Peter healed the lame man in Acts 3, he did not ask God to heal him, he said, "In the name of Jesus, rise up and walk."

Somewhere along the line, the church has got it into its head that people need to beg and plead with God to heal sick people. I don't know where they got that from but they never got it from the Bible. I know the scriptures about asking God and making our requests to Him, but these were never in the context of divine healing.

Also, there is clear teaching in the Bible that God provided physical healing as part of the Atonement. Matthew quotes Isaiah in the context of Jesus healing sick people by saying "He took our sicknesses and diseases". So, if God has already provided healing, then when people ask for what God has already provided, don't they make Him out to be a liar? And if so, then does it surprise anyone that people don't get healed in response to prayers of that nature?

What about the prayer, "Heal this sick person if it be thy will"? One man came to Jesus and said, "you can heal me if it is your will." Jesus replied, "It certainly is, be healed" and the man was healed. This shows quite conclusively that it is God's will to heal sick people. If it wasn't God's will why did Jesus command His disciples to heal the sick?

So if we are praying for someone with cancer and we say heal him if it is your will, what is the alternative? If it is not God's will to heal the man, is it them God's will that he dies a slow, agonising death? Because you have to have either one or the other, so do you think that God's nature would support a person dying a slow and painful death?

I don't think so. Jesus showed great compassion toward sick people. I cannot imagine Jesus saying to someone coming for healing, "Sorry, it isn't My will to heal you today." Did Jesus ever say that?

What about the scripture in Mark 16? Does it say, "They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover, only if it is God's will?" No, of course not.

So how are we going to pray for sick people and know that it will not be a hit and miss thing - mainly a miss?

What we need to do is to accept that we are representatives of Jesus and can do the works that He did in the way that He went about it. There is no actual formula for healing, but there are principles, and asking God for what He has already provided is not one of them.

Actually if I ask God to heal someone, it won't happen because it would be a prayer of unbelief, not a prayer of faith. A prayer of faith acknowledges that God has provided healing and that we can require the healing to take place. We can command a spirit of infirmity to leave a person. We can say, "Jesus heals you." or "Be Healed". We don't even have to say the Name of Jesus, because a representatives we are automatically using the authority of His name just by pronouncing healing on a person.

Any believer can minister healing in this way. We don't have to depend on healing "ministries." A lot of them are more showmen than anything. They give a wrong impression of the healing ministry. There are no special gifts of healing that enables a guy to put on a white suit, get up on a stage and demonstrate that he is a great healing evangelist. There is no such person anywhere in the book of Acts. We don't need the wrong impression that ministering healing is limited to "healing ministries". We all can minister healing to the sick.

So let's get out there and do it!

good to believe -unbelief gets us nothing

 

[Messy]

If healing were guaranteed in the atonement, why don't all get instantly healed when saved? The did "accept" it, salvation, and Him.

Why aren't all instantly talking and acting like Jesus? He lives in us and we are made righteous.

 

[Alithis]

Why aren't all instantly talking and acting like Jesus? He lives in us and we are made righteous.

yup we can be saved out of Egypt ,but not enter the promises ..because of unbelief -we need to be obedient to the sanctifying work of the holy Spirit .not sit passively doing s we wish. for "we are not our own "

 

[Souldier]

yup we can be saved out of Egypt ,but not enter the promises ..because of unbelief -we need to be obedient to the sanctifying work of the holy Spirit .not sit passively doing s we wish. for "we are not our own "

Is it unbelief to think that one should walk by faith not sight? Isn't walking by faith instead of sight the act of looking toward heaven and our Resurrection instead of earthly things? Sickness is an earthly thing. Please, take time to consider and answer this question below, please be open minded and completely nonpartisan. Please answer it with a direct and simple answer.


Answer this question. Did God promise to deliver us from the Sword? (see Romans 8)

IF your answer is no then please answer another question- Can sickness be like a sword? Can someone kill me with raditation just as easily as with a sword? IF so then we acknowledge that God doesnt promise to deliver us from radiation sickness.

If we acknowledge that then we must also acknowledge that sickness can be contributed to many different things and God didnt prommise to deliver us from them.

 

[Souldier]

If a church of believing, spirit filled Christians found themselves in the aftermath of a nuclear attack and they started to get sick and to die from radiation sickness, would that be any different that getting stoned to death like Stephan did, or killed by the sword like Romans 8 teaches us? Why must sickness always be seen as a lack of faith or belief? Can it not just be like a sword?

 

[Souldier]

The stones which killed Stephan are no different than the sickness that kills us. It is an outside force that kills us, it is outside our control sometimes. Just like the stones that killed Stephan we can have things like environmental pollution hurled at us that will kill us just like a bunch of rocks also will kill us. Did Stephan lack faith? No, he was walking by faith not sight when he asked God to forgive those who were killing Him. He was following faith in Christ who did the same.

 

[Alithis]

Consider this.. your words are removing faith and hope from the sick.
did he promise to deliver us from the sword.yes.
because in death is displayed our greatest victory for he will raise us up again.
death to the christian is absolute victory.

It is better that we be present with the lord but it is needful that we remain here ,surrendered to his will at work in us.to continue his work upon the earth untill his return.to preach the gospel,heal the sick,set the captive free ...

believe..
no where are we told in scripture to doubt and make excuse.
only to believe and repent.

 

[Alithis]

To many have recived a gospel that excludes the cross.
being willing to lay down our lives rather the compromise our faith.because we love him who first loved us.

 

[Souldier]

Consider this.. your words are removing faith and hope from the sick.
did he promise to deliver us from the sword.yes.
because in death is displayed our greatest victory for he will raise us up again.
death to the christian is absolute victory.

It is better that we be present with the lord but it is needful that we remain here ,surrendered to his will at work in us.to continue his work upon the earth untill his return.to preach the gospel,heal the sick,set the captive free ...

believe..
no where are we told in scripture to doubt and make excuse.
only to believe and repent.

You seem afraid to answer the question, perhaps because you may be afraid of the answer. Why are you avoiding to answer a question? Will truth not win every argument? Will truth not shine if you answer?