Pope Says States Have Right to Defend Borders

[Wirraway]

You're very quick to judge the actions of people you don't know in a situation that you know nothing about.

There is nothing that I wouldn't do for my children because it involved breaking the law of the land. There are things I wouldn't do because they are gave evils and never acceptable under any circumstances, but trespassing isn't one of them.

you'd be sent back and they'd follow. so you'd be Together and wouldn't have to endure the pain of separation.

 

[AMDG]

So what is the moral answer in Catholic theology to the old puzzle, seal a loaf of bread or children starve. Since this relates in some aspects.

Just showing that this is not a simple "tresspassing" issue. Three of the Ten Commandments are being broken (actually there are four--I forgot the one about not coveting our neighbor's goods) as well as being a good parenting example.

 

[Wirraway]

A case like that got someone refugee status in Edmonton I think. I read an article about it the other week.

yes.. terrible place. human rights a shambles ... ah.. that's in edmonton rather than from edmonton. sorry.

I've managed to win cases like that. you'll want to check the CIA's World Factbook for individual country studies that identify political and other kinds of strife, and then work from that.

 

[EmbattledBunny]

Just showing that this is not a simple "tresspassing" issue. Three of the Ten Commandments are being broken (actually there are four--I forgot the one about not coveting our neighbor's goods) as well as being a good parenting example.

You were asked what the moral answer was. Got anything?

Illegally entering a country fleeing hunger, persecution or violence isn't automatically coveting, lying or stealing. Any parent who chooses to be a "good example" and let their chldren's lives be endangered is a bad parent.

I obey the law. If my children's lives could be saved by breaking it, well, sorry, laws of man.

 

[AMDG]

laws of man

You do know that the Ten Commandments are not just "men's laws"? God gave them to us for our benefit. When we follow them, we are, in fact, all of society is better for it.

 

[benedictaoo]

You know what I think?

The advocates who think, "just let them come over here"

they must live up north thus not be directly effected by it.

Why don't who ever thinks it's dignifying for them to be let over, come and see how they actually live over here and get a good dose of the gangs that Texas is infested with.

 

[EmbattledBunny]

You do know that the Ten Commandments are not just "men's laws"? God gave them to us for our benefit. When we follow them, we are, in fact, all of society is better for it.

Immigration Law in the United States are laws of man, not of God. Governments have a God-given right only to do what respects life, nothing else. Freedom in the Catholic sense is the freedom to do what is right - if a law prevents a parent of hungry children from entering a land where they would be able to work to feed their children, that law is wrong - as wrong as any law which allows the slaughter of the unborn.

Two chances and you're still not interested in answering the question?

 

[Wirraway]

... the gangs that Texas ...

... these are good, honest, hardworking and christian young gangsters, fleeing from oppression in their troubled homeland and trying to provide for their families. They seek only the dignity that is their birthright as human being people persons.

 

[EmbattledBunny]

You know what I think?

The advocates who think, "just let them come over here"

they must live up north thus not be directly effected by it.

Why don't who ever thinks it's dignifying for them to be let over, come and see how they actually live over here and get a good dose of the gangs that Texas is infested with.

I'm a northerner, and I'll tell you what; find a family in need of any legal status and I open my backyard to them. If it gets real cold, I'll open my house to them. I have tents and the basics of life, ready to provide for them. If you know a needy family, PM me and I'll be happy to make this a lot less hypothetical for you. My parish also oppens it's doors to those in need, regardless of immigration staus. If help is needed, I want to give it. Let me know.

 

[stone]

Now they're shooting people crossing right on the other side of the bridges. It's become too dangerous now to even cross the border. They have like assassins singling out people it appears, randomnly.

Two national guard troops that came down here to help the border patrol got stabbed in a bar over the weekend by two gang members.

They're throwing road spikes in front of police cars and shooting back with ak-47's to have time to swim back across the river.

The media can't report the car bombs that are going off in front of police stations, just a few minutes on the other side of the border, because the reporters get decapitated. No one can walk the streets at night. It's much worse that you can imagine.

There was one morning, i was listening to this radio station, news station, kurv, and some guy was messaging to the station that shots were being fired randomnly throughout the town in different locations. He said he could hear helicopters flying over and machine gun fire. It had been going on already for about 45 minutes.

Another caller from the Texas side said some windows had rattled from the bombs going off across the border. Shots were also heard.

The cartel was agressively fighting off the military. Another caller said he saw a convoy of vehicles quickly leaving the area, covered with heavy fire. Sounds like they got really close to someone that time.

A few weeks before the car bombs started exploding in front of police stations an Al Qaeda agent was spotted, closer to Brownsville, along the Texas, Mexico border. I think things are much worse than imagined, as i said.

 

[stone]

if you have someone here illegally who can, in defense of being deported, prove that there are specific reasons why he or she is in danger of being killed if forced to return, then there's probably good reason to stay. for example, if there's evidence that drug gangs have targeted the illegal's family and made threats against him. it can be done. but economic privation isn't going to be enough.

they're being ransomed off, if there is no money, they're offerred a job, if they refuse, they're shot. Those being held for ransom... I know a guy personally, met him at let's say a construction site. He got deported one night exiting a business as border patrol agents entered and when he did not have id, they basically threw him to the other side of the border. He walked along the border searching for a good place to cross. Unfortunately for him, at that time, Falcon damn was being left opened and the river was about a mile wide. So he camped along the river, he figured, till it would recede some. He was captured by one of the cartels. They kept him pinned down in a muddy ditch with bails of pot for days. The guy standing at the top of the ditch was holding an ak-47.

They took his cell phone and called someone from the phone and said that they want 600 bux or they're going to kill him. 100 was sent so they would spare his life and give him a plate of food and the rest was on the way. I'm not sure of the details much but, he was forced to swim across the river with a bail.

I told him that i want to write a story about him, that's when he gave me his real name and told me where he was really from. I laughed and said it's safer to not use any names. I haven't seen him in awhile, but i know that those that are deported are having their lives put at risk. Less they run and hide before the sun goes down i guess?

 

[EmbattledBunny]

Now they're shooting people crossing right on the other side of the bridges. It's become too dangerous now to even cross the border. They have like assassins singling out people it appears, randomnly.

Two national guard troops that came down here to help the border patrol got stabbed in a bar over the weekend by two gang members.

They're throwing road spikes in front of police cars and shooting back with ak-47's to have time to swim back across the river.

The media can't report the car bombs that are going off in front of police stations, just a few minutes on the other side of the border, because the reporters get decapitated. No one can walk the streets at night. It's much worse that you can imagine.

There was one morning, i was listening to this radio station, news station, kurv, and some guy was messaging to the station that shots were being fired randomnly throughout the town in different locations. He said he could hear helicopters flying over and machine gun fire. It had been going on already for about 45 minutes.

Another caller from the Texas side said some windows had rattled from the bombs going off across the border. Shots were also heard.

The cartel was agressively fighting off the military. Another caller said he saw a convoy of vehicles quickly leaving the area, covered with heavy fire. Sounds like they got really close to someone that time.

A few weeks before the car bombs started exploding in front of police stations an Al Qaeda agent was spotted, closer to Brownsville, along the Texas, Mexico border. I think things are much worse than imagined, as i said.

Sounds awful. I'd do anything to get my family to safety, in whatever direction that safety might lie.

 

[stone]

Many of the wealthier Mexicans are buying homes in Texas to escape the cartels. They're children are often kidnapped and well... I'll spare the details, i think i've painted a groom enough picture already of an unfortunate reality at our door step.

You give me the impression that you don't think that it's going on here on this side. They're busting into homes here and kidnapping people and holding them for ransom too. A girl was snatched from in front of a valero in McAllen not long ago. Almost all the authority here along the border has been corrupted by the cartels. It's been here for many many years already.

 

[benedictaoo]

Sounds awful. I'd do anything to get my family to safety, in whatever direction that safety might lie.

that is why American families are fleeing Texas and Arizona, to get their children to safety due to the Hispanic gangs that these states are infested with...

 

[benedictaoo]

I'm a northerner, and I'll tell you what; find a family in need of any legal status and I open my backyard to them. If it gets real cold, I'll open my house to them. I have tents and the basics of life, ready to provide for them. If you know a needy family, PM me and I'll be happy to make this a lot less hypothetical for you. My parish also oppens it's doors to those in need, regardless of immigration staus. If help is needed, I want to give it. Let me know.

Good you can let your door open to the American families who are fleeing from the southern boarder states to get away from the crime illegal immigration has caused for them.

I mean if we are going to feel sorry for parents who are trying to raise their kids in a safe environment no matter what their colour, right? I will not, not feel sorry for these parents just because they are white.

 

[EmbattledBunny]

that is why American families are fleeing Texas and Arizona, to get their children to safety due to the Hispanic gangs that these states are infested with...

I mean if we are going to feel sorry for parents who are trying to raise their kids in a safe environment no matter what their colour, right? I will not, not feel sorry for these parents just because they are white.

..and yes, I support anyone moving their families away from hunger or danger whenever possible, regardless of legal status, skin color or any other nonsence. Life comes first. It trumps the economy every time

Dangerous people, regardless of immigration status, skin color or whatever, need to be locked away from those who just want to get by.

 

[benedictaoo]

I thought the population (including the legal population) in both Texas and Arizona was trending up?

..and yes, I support anyone moving their families away from hunger or danger whenever possible, regardless of legal status, skin color or any other nonsence. Life comes first. It trumps the economy every time

Dangerous people, regardless of immigration status, skin color or whatever, need to be locked away from those who just want to get by.

So do you get it then?

In these states, there is a serious crime issue that comes hand and hand with illegal immigration.

it is not as easy as you make it seem.
it is not a case of, the poor ppl want to come and we don't want them to.

1 person may come for a better life to every 5 ppl who are gang bangers and who bring drugs, and crime.

and I do understand that it's easy when you are way up north to say, hey, let them all come because it's not your local high school where your teen children attend who have to deal with the gang violence and the rival gangs etc.

It's a real issue and its easy for those not effected to take a side but this is a issue that has no sides.

There has to be some system put in place where we can let in the good and keep out the bad, not to mention disease and illness...

if we open the boarder and let whoever over, like red rover, come on over... we ave no way to keep out something like the swine flu, and violence.

I would love for these ppl to come on over, red rover style and have a better life, because Mexico sucks but A) they are coming over and are unprotected and are targets of exploitation and B) violent killers and drug pushers who can possible try to peddle drugs to my kids, are coming.

Thus we have laws for a reason and they need to be enforced. It is for both their protection and ours.