Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

[b&wpac4]

A curse was applied to the design. It's like tainting water. Water is water but if I add arsenic to it then it is "cursed". It's still water. It doesn't cease to be water. It just now contains poison.

Let me expand this one more step:

Your view of the pre-fall human was one that could not die. That means there was no necessary reason to breathe, to eat, to drink, to sleep, to pump blood to the brain. We simply could not die.

Yet, God designed all of these systems, each with their own inherent problems.

He could have created us without the need to breathe, then we could not drown.

He could have created us without the need to eat or drink, and we would not be able to die of starvation or dehydration.

If we didn't have to sleep, that would be that much more we could be productive and, perhaps, even worship him that much more.

He designed us to die. He designed us to have flaws. He knew we were going to fall, and he made it so that we would have immense suffering just through the fact that our bodies were made frail and fragile. He designed an imperfect creation on purpose, because he wanted us to be this way.

 

[bsd13]

Honestly, I don't think I can. I've read the book and have had people tell me about the fall many times.

I understand the assertions that we used to live forever and such but the problem I have is that people have attributed so many things to this fall. I've heard everything from ERVs matching up with common descent to the death of the dinosaurs being attributed to the aftermath of this fall. It seems like every Christian pictures it differently. Even if for argument's sake I let you get by on your claim without pressing for evidence that this fall even happened, I don't see how the fall as commonly described even explains these things that are attributed to it.

If you took away the noise from other people, whatever they are in your life, could you wrap your mind around it then? If you weren't "trained" to think one way or another and had picked it up and read it for the first time knowing nothing of Christian doctrine would it make sense to you?

 

[bsd13]

Let me expand this one more step:

Your view of the pre-fall human was one that could not die. That means there was no necessary reason to breathe, to eat, to drink, to sleep, to pump blood to the brain. We simply could not die.

Yet, God designed all of these systems, each with their own inherent problems.

He could have created us without the need to breathe, then we could not drown.

He could have created us without the need to eat or drink, and we would not be able to die of starvation or dehydration.

If we didn't have to sleep, that would be that much more we could be productive and, perhaps, even worship him that much more.

He designed us to die. He designed us to have flaws. He knew we were going to fall, and he made it so that we would have immense suffering just through the fact that our bodies were made frail and fragile. He designed an imperfect creation on purpose, because he wanted us to be this way.

You're really out thinking yourself. I'm almost afraid to step in because you seem to be on such a roll. I just wanted to point out one thing though.

He designed us. Perfect, imperfect, blessed, cursed. Whatever. He still designed us.

 

[b&wpac4]

You're really out thinking yourself. I'm almost afraid to step in because you seem to be on such a roll. I just wanted to point out one thing though.

He designed us. Perfect, imperfect, blessed, cursed. Whatever. He still designed us.

Or...

we evolved. The flaws make a whole lot more sense then when there isn't a designer behind it.

 

[bsd13]

Or...

we evolved. The flaws make a whole lot more sense then when there isn't a designer behind it.

And look at the mess we have evolved into as a result of our creator pulling His hand away from us because we rejected Him.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Um...there is a whole other section of Society dedicated to this debate. If you guys don't want to let it drop, might I suggest that you continue it over there?

 

[b&wpac4]

And look at the mess we have evolved into as a result of our creator pulling His hand away from us because we rejected Him.

Which mess would that be?

 

[b&wpac4]

Um...there is a whole other section of Society dedicated to this debate. If you guys don't want to let it drop, might I suggest that you continue it over there?

Sorry, I let my mind wander a bit outside of what we had started on.

 

[bsd13]

Um...there is a whole other section of Society dedicated to this debate. If you guys don't want to let it drop, might I suggest that you continue it over there?

Oh good. Glad to see that you are here to put this entire discussion back on track for what it was originally intended.

Pope, homosexuals, transsexuals, and rain forests. In case anyone had forgotten.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

It wasn't like that before the fall.

Can you wrap your mind around such a thing? Can you comprehend it?

Our body's are not designed for bipedal motion so it is because we walk upright not because of some past ancestors supposed transgressions.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

A curse was applied to the design. It's like tainting water. Water is water but if I add arsenic to it then it is "cursed". It's still water. It doesn't cease to be water. It just now contains poison.

Just more of the same nonsense that discounts actual science.

 

[bsd13]

Our body's are not designed for bipedal motion so it is because we walk upright not because of some past ancestors supposed transgressions.

Whatever you like to believe. More power to you. No point in speaking with you either because you are clearly far superior in all things to all people.

 

[bsd13]

Just more of the same nonsense that discounts actual science.

You have your god and I have my God. We will leave it at that.

 

[TheBear]

Pope, homosexuals, transsexuals, and rain forests. In case anyone had forgotten.

Pedophiles too? Oh wait.

Apparently, the Pope feels that homosexuality is more egregious to humanity than pedophilia. Silly me.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

If you took away the noise from other people, whatever they are in your life, could you wrap your mind around it then? If you weren't "trained" to think one way or another and had picked it up and read it for the first time knowing nothing of Christian doctrine would it make sense to you?

Why are we designed more like other animals that are not meant for bipedal motion and why do we have obsolescent parts that serve no purpose such as a tail bone as in our ancestor had tails?

 

[OphidiaPhile]

If you took away the noise from other people, whatever they are in your life, could you wrap your mind around it then? If you weren't "trained" to think one way or another and had picked it up and read it for the first time knowing nothing of Christian doctrine would it make sense to you?

It would still make absolutely zero sense to me just as all mythology makes no sense.

 

[Braunwyn]

Whatever you like to believe. More power to you. No point in speaking with you either because you are clearly far superior in all things to all people.

All things? All people? How about just science and one or two people in this thread?

 

[OphidiaPhile]

And look at the mess we have evolved into as a result of our creator pulling His hand away from us because we rejected Him.

We evolved from other species, that is a fact.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Your "righteous" indignation is really telling. Fact of the matter is that if I were to sit here and tell you all the things I'm against the government being involved in you would have a fit. In fact I think you've lashed out at me about my belief they shouldn't be involved in charity work.

And just to be clear, I don't believe the government has any business being involved in marriage at all. On any level. I don't believe in tax breaks for married people, I don't believe that a marriage should get you any benefits from the government for any reason.

But the issue at hand was the Pope's statement about marriage needing to be protected. Not how someone feels about the government in general. And like I've said before I agree with the pope on at least this one issue.

You are pretty funny.

Good then. So you don't want the government's hands in the regulation of marriage. I will expect then, that from now on you will not be preaching against the wiles of gay marriage, but if anything at all, government issued marriage licenses and the regulation of marriage by the government for ANYONE.

So you agree with the pope. Great. I don't care, because I'm not Catholic (any longer, I was raised so until age 13). It still doesn't negate the fact that I think he's a dark age db. Once common sense wins out over hype, drama and propaganda driven by the religious right, I eventually will be able to be wed by pagan handfasting, or married in an open and affirming church of my choice. And I will have [the same of] whatever government benefits there are for straights from doing so, if there are any.

 

[bsd13]

Pedophiles too? Oh wait.

Apparently, the Pope feels that homosexuality is more egregious to humanity that pedophilia. Silly me.

Would it satisfy you had he listed off every sexual aberration of mankind?