PLEASE READ:Would like to apologise

[Jahleel]

Shalom,
I would just like to apologise for my previous thread, stating that Native Americans are the true Americans.
Native Americans are a topic (no offense meant) close to my heart,and it vexes me the way they where treated and still are treated, and the fact their old ways are dieing out.
Anyways, as you may have gathered i was in one heck of a crappy mood, because i lost my faith in Jesus, and the Bible,and i felt like crap, i felt lost, hopeless and really fed up with everything, i had alot of anger inside of me, more than i can actually remember me having in a long time.
I hope you can accept my apology, i didn`t mean to offend anyone, but like i said i hate the fact that NAs lost the land they where on, they where the most spiritual people i know.
Anyways please forgive me.

Thank You

 

[mmksparbud]

You're forgiven, Jahleel. That's what Christianity is.

By the way, I have the same caring as you for Native Americans. You may know this factoid about Wounded Knee Massacre, but if not, you'll never forget it.

The massacre was prompted by an editorial in the local paper complaining of the prolonged disruption and fear the Ghost Dancing was causing the white residents. The editorial went on to imply a violent attack might be a good strategy, using vague language. Something like advocating for an immediate and decisive strategy to get rid of the injuns.

The townspeople demanded action and the massacre took place the next day. And the editor who wrote the inflammatory piece was Frank Baum, the author of the Oz series including The Wizard of Oz.

The wizard of Oz author??---Well--that's upsetting!!--But, the wizard was a quack--bullying the indigenous peoples through fear and intimidation---so, yep--that fits!
It was inevitable for America to be populated by outsiders. That is the nature of the beast, go to some foreign soil, dominate, kill, enslave the locals and take over. That has happened everywhere---what's mine is mine, what's yours is also mine. It stinks, it's awful, it's murder and stealing--and it won't end till Jesus get's here. I hope it's soon, or we'll be killing each other over who is going to get the moon---or did that already happen??--I've been sick lately.

And I haven't a clue what the OP had said that needed forgiving. The American Indian (along with some Mexican Indians) are the only real life Americans, the rest of us are all foreigners.
I've never heard an American Indian use "The Great Spirit" as a cuss word.
But let's not be over poetic--they, too had border wars, and would try to kill each other off and take what the other tribe had. Man is man, no matter what color--forever trying to get what somebody else has. They're still at it in Africa and other places--and everybody is still trying to wipe out all the Jews!! The Great Jew in the Sky needs to come and get us! (No, I'm not taking Him lightly!)

 

[mmksparbud]

Really enjoyed your response, M. You remind me of how we use the word "American".

There's North and South Americas, connected by Central America. All Americans. Yet one country exercises so much power that the world refers to it as "America". Few see how enabling this is of USAmerican world-ignorance and arrogance.

Cheers,

Doug

And I was born in Central America--Costa Rica---but I did become an "American" citizen at 16. So, I guess you could say I was born an American--I still have Costa Rican citizenship--you born one, you die one, legally, you can not give it up.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Shalom,
I would just like to apologise for my previous thread, stating that Native Americans are the true Americans.
Native Americans are a topic (no offense meant) close to my heart,and it vexes me the way they where treated and still are treated, and the fact their old ways are dieing out.
Anyways, as you may have gathered i was in one heck of a crappy mood, because i lost my faith in Jesus, and the Bible,and i felt like crap, i felt lost, hopeless and really fed up with everything, i had alot of anger inside of me, more than i can actually remember me having in a long time.
I hope you can accept my apology, i didn`t mean to offend anyone, but like i said i hate the fact that NAs lost the land they where on, they where the most spiritual people i know.
Anyways please forgive me.

Thank You

Native Americans are the true "Americans".

Just like how I am a true "Englishman"

 

[mmksparbud]

I've visited CR three times and love it. I hope you get back to visit...it's changing so fast.

Where did you live?

Doug

Right smack in the middle of San Jose--mom would take us to the beach and to the mountains often. Loved those trips, we'd buy food as we traveled and it was great--I think the sugar cane plantation was my favorite--chewed that stuff till my jaws ached!

 

[nota]

You're forgiven, Jahleel. That's what Christianity is.

By the way, I have the same caring as you for Native Americans. You may know this factoid about Wounded Knee Massacre, but if not, you'll never forget it.

Wow, signs of life in this subforum!
Here I thought it was "buried" long time ago.......

Your information regarding Mr. Baum is correct.
The 1890 massacre of Lakota people was one of countless genocidal expeditions against indian peoples.
But thanks for remembering it and being honest about it!
Few white folks will do either.
Worse, an astonishing number of them will angrily JUSTIFY genocide against indian peoples.
Guess whether a mass killing is genocide always depends upon WHO the perpetrators are as well as who the victims are.........

One of many Anglo superstitions regarding indian peoples is that indian nations exterminated one another exactly like Europeans did.
Trying to convince folks who believe that intertribal fights [warfare if you prefer] were NOT synonomous with European total domination and extermination of non-European peoples , is a waste of time.
So I won`t bother.
Just one observation : indian peoples have not pulled a Manifest Destiny on any non-indian peoples.

I can vouch for the fact that "hunting season" [war] on indian peoples continues TODAY - I live right in the middle of it.

Tragically, forgiveness is not a christian trait - I so wish it was, but no amount of wishing makes it true.
I know a few individual christians who are forgiving, whose lives actually back up their talk. They are very rare "specimens" indeed.
And I TREASURE them.

nota

 

[Ana the Ist]

The wizard of Oz author??---Well--that's upsetting!!--But, the wizard was a quack--bullying the indigenous peoples through fear and intimidation---so, yep--that fits!
It was inevitable for America to be populated by outsiders. That is the nature of the beast, go to some foreign soil, dominate, kill, enslave the locals and take over. That has happened everywhere---what's mine is mine, what's yours is also mine. It stinks, it's awful, it's murder and stealing--and it won't end till Jesus get's here. I hope it's soon, or we'll be killing each other over who is going to get the moon---or did that already happen??--I've been sick lately.

And I haven't a clue what the OP had said that needed forgiving. The American Indian (along with some Mexican Indians) are the only real life Americans, the rest of us are all foreigners.
I've never heard an American Indian use "The Great Spirit" as a cuss word.
But let's not be over poetic--they, too had border wars, and would try to kill each other off and take what the other tribe had. Man is man, no matter what color--forever trying to get what somebody else has. They're still at it in Africa and other places--and everybody is still trying to wipe out all the Jews!! The Great Jew in the Sky needs to come and get us! (No, I'm not taking Him lightly!)

I'm not a foreigner...I'm a United States citizen. True, my ancestors may have come from somewhere else long ago...but I did not. The United States is, and always will be, my nation for as long as I live.

 

[nota]

Hi Doug,

Your reference to the early church as "the Jesus movement" is interesting, I have not heard that before. That label reminds me of young christians in the 1960s and 70s, which I was one of. [dating myself here]
As we know from reading the NT, although the early church/believers seem to have been closer to Creator Jesus and his teachings, they also had their share of problems.
HOW the apostles dealt with those problems in their churches is revealing.
They dealt with them very differently from how modern western churches [or even medevial churches] usually handle their problems, provided they recognize them.

The way I see it, the most destructive and malignant problems in the AngloAmerican church are the twin ideologies of AngloAmerican superiority and the christian culture concept [AngloAmerican culture = christianity].
If non-AngloAmericans want to follow Creator Jesus they are told to give up their [inferior/evil/pagan] cultures in order to completely assimilate into AngloAmerican [christian] culture. This is no friendly suggestion, it is a demand.
The demand entails abandoning one`s first [non-English] language, one`s ancestry and people, one`s worldview and values, customs and traditions.
Not some of it but ALL of it.

I have told many non-white people that, if Creator Jesus had wanted ONLY white/western peoples, he would have created ONLY white/western peoples.
To me, trying to be someone you are not, pretending to be someone you are not, is akin to telling Creator that he has made a mistake. It is DISHONORING to Creator!

And you know what?
Somehow I DO NOT THINK that the early church/the early believers, whether Jewish or Gentile, thought of themselves as superior in any sense.......

nota

 

[nota]

Doug,

You got me thinking.......which is a good thing.

Your description of Constantine makes my skin crawl. Even though I see it a bit different I cannot disagree with you either.
Oh yeah, that merger of church and political powers and it`s murderous results can be seen throughout the entire human history.
What makes Constantine so hideous is that, after converting to christianity [some christians will dispute this], he then turned around to persecute the pagan peoples in the same way the Romans had persecutet the earliest christians. And the label christian here has not the same connotation as was attached to it lateron in history.

You seem to say that it was Constantine who was the driving force behind deciding which writings were to be included in the NT canon.
I am intrigued but cannot find any info to back up this idea. If you have sources would you share them with me?
Some 300+ bishops were invited to Nicea by Constantin, but it appears that Constantin was motivated to act as a mediator between opposing factions [disagreements over theology and doctrines] of the bishops.
The Nicene Council did NOT, as far as I understand it, compile the NT canon.
I had to refresh my memory on some details.
The 27 NT "books" were written between 50 and 150 AD.
The selection process for which books to include in the canon gradually began at the end of the second century and continued through the third and fourth centuries.
The first complete list is said to have emerged in a letter of Athanasius in 367 AD.
No, I don`t know all this stuff, it`s vaguely in the back of my head and I had to look it up.....
There were FIERCE debates over which "books" should be included in the NT canon!!!
What`s even more interesting is that some of the EXcluded books, such as the OT apocrypha, are INcluded in the German Luther [translation] bible and I think also in catholic bibles.
Calvinists/reformeds really don`t have anywhere near an accurate perception of the character of one of their primary heroes, one Martin Luther! But that`s another fascinating topic.
The only reason I know is that I can read Luther`s bible translation and his unsanitized writings in his language, German. The sanitized English translations of Luther`s writings miss A LOT.

Is the wiccan holocaust the same as the "witch burnings" and/or inquisition?
I spent some time in a pagan forum with some very knowledgeable people I learned much from.
Also had a wiccan friend who used to run a coven. She quit being a priestess for some of the same reasons I quit organized church - too much bickering and hostility over doctrine and theological correctness. And too much power mongering and domination.

I kinda feel like I am hijacking this thread, getting it way off topic....
Mods, heeelp! Maybe this needs to be moved?

And where are the indian folks who used to be here, where is the Cherokee lady who tried so hard to keep this subforum going??


nota

 

[nota]

Thanks, Doug, for sharing the book info! Sounds interesting...

I am always looking to learn more, although anything off-the-beaten-path really grabs my attention much more than the same old same old.

nota

 

[edens]

Shalom,
I would just like to apologise for my previous thread, stating that Native Americans are the true Americans.
Native Americans are a topic (no offense meant) close to my heart,and it vexes me the way they where treated and still are treated, and the fact their old ways are dieing out.
Anyways, as you may have gathered i was in one heck of a crappy mood, because i lost my faith in Jesus, and the Bible,and i felt like crap, i felt lost, hopeless and really fed up with everything, i had alot of anger inside of me, more than i can actually remember me having in a long time.
I hope you can accept my apology, i didn`t mean to offend anyone, but like i said i hate the fact that NAs lost the land they where on, they where the most spiritual people i know.
Anyways please forgive me.

Thank You

I agree with you after being sent to boarding schools and being stripped of their beliefs and had their hair cut and had been abused...it was kind of a ripple effect to now most struggle with alcohol and identity.

The ones that thrive are the ones who have gone back to their old ways.