PHOENIX: Does Job 29:18/Bible show Fiery Mythological Bird as Biological Fact or Myth

[Gxg (G²)]

Well if you grant that Noah and the Ark existed, it would seem sailing and transporting animals would have been something his early descendants would have been very good at.

But shipbuilding is a very technical skill, so it's also equally plausible the technology was lost after a few generations elapsed.

But again, I ask, how did all these ancient cultures reach these distant remote islands so long ago? They either evolved separately (which is utterly silly) or their ancient ancestors were very good sailors.

Nothing really logical with saying that it is impossible for other cultures to evolve separately and still come up with much of the same (seeing the reality that all have the SAME brain and capability for development0.

 

[Calminian]

Nothing really logical with saying that it is impossible for other cultures to evolve separately and still come up with much of the same (seeing the reality that all have the SAME brain and capability for development0.

I'm not a scientists, but the idea of a completely different evolved creature being interrelate with one on a different continent, seems way outlandishly unlikely.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm not a scientists, but the idea of a completely different evolved creature being interrelate with one on a different continent, seems way outlandishly unlikely.

Seeing that mankind is one species, it's not the case that one side developing differently than another is a matter of something outlandish when it comes to variations in groups. ...and the fact that the continents were once together, with men spreading all over and yet experiencing continental drifts as well as being stuck in certain parts when they broke off (including the islands). To assume ship-building HAD to have been the reasons men made it to islands would be to go past the reality of men traveling to places by other means.

There's not really anything logical in simply saying the idea of men evolving differently in certain areas culture/strength wise is outlandish when it has happened frequently - even from a cultural perspective if seeing how people in the world of Asia develop differently from others in the West Indies islands.

One excellent book on the issue to consider is Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies: Jared M. Diamond: 9780393317558: Amazon.com: Books. The work by Jared M.Diamond is truly excellent. I've only been able to go through it at "Barnes and Noble" bookstore since I don't have the funds to get it at the time - with it still being on the wishlist. I may end up going to the library to check it out long term. Brought it up before elsewhere in discussion when talking about the interconnections between Fate/Chance...and Guns, germs, and steel truly does show a lot in regards to how others land up as they did.

I originally came across it after seeing the series from "National Geographic" that I had to learn of/watch during an Anthropology class for college. It was a trip viewing it.

Guns,Germs and Steel (Full Documentary)
Guns, Germs, & Steel - EP1: Out of Eden (2005)
Guns, Germs, & Steel - EP2: Conquest (2005)
Guns, Germs, & Steel - EP3: Into the Tropics (2005)​

That said, to talk on the issue further would really be going past the goal/purpose of the OP - discussing the creature known as the Phoenix....and seeing whether or not it was simply mythological - or perhaps a real creature, be it on a biological level of creature or on a spiritual level of animal (like the horses of fire in Heaven described in scripture). There is room for saying that perhaps animals like the Phoenix were creatures carried over (if talking from the perspective of Noah's Ark/creatures surviving on it) that were large animals - later hunted by others or perishing to extinction (perhaps because of natural selection or other events) or held in awe/ embellished in their traits past what they were. Something to add to the category of Crypto-Zoology...

Or perhaps they were creatures on a Divine Level like creations in the Heavenlies - animals man got a glimpse of at certain times and continued to tell the tale. Who knows..

Again, the subject matter is focusing on the creatures known as Phoenix - and seeing what reality may have to offer on their traits.

Back to the topic...

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[Sojourner1]

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[A New Dawn]

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[Calminian]

Awesome!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

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I have cleaned up this thread of numerous off-topic and flaming posts. If you want to post in this thread, please refer to the OP for the topic. If something is starting to go off-topic, and the OP requests that you bring things back to the topic, please do so. If you wish to discuss a different topic, please start a new thread.

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Many thanks for helping out in regards to keeping the OP focused/ on track and keeping anything veering from that out the way

 

[SkyWriting]

Does anyone here feel that evolution would've allowed for a creature such as the Phoenix to be in existence? For those that do not believe in Evolution, do you believe that such a creature was ever created by the Lord at any point? Or do you feel that such creatures are simply myths? Whatever your thoughts, would love to hear sometime

lol..."the Phoenix" does indeed exist.

When you hear a loud THUNK on your window, walk over and
look for the poor bird confused by the reflection of sky on your
window. My window was over a flat roof at the time.

I watched the poor thing for about an hour. They definitely go
through a "resurrection" process and eventually fly away seemingly
unharmed. But it is quite a long and involved process.
The bird actually goes through "physical" changes, visually anyways.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

lol..."the Phoenix" does indeed exist.

When you hear a loud THUNK on your window, walk over and
look for the poor bird confused by the reflection of sky on your
window. My window was over a flat roof at the time.

I watched the poor thing for about an hour. They definitely go
through a "resurrection" process and eventually fly away seemingly
unharmed. But it is quite a long and involved process.
The bird actually goes through "physical" changes, visually anyways.

LOL

Of course for those birds flying into windows, they have a mini-resurrection state and a time of adjustment which can be difficult. Seen it myself with a hawk that flew into my window trying to catch my pet conures parrot - and the hawk felt a bit disjointed while taking time to wait.

That said, as that's not what the OP was focused on, back to the topic

 

[SkyWriting]

LOL

Of course for those birds flying into windows, they have a mini-resurrection state and a time of adjustment which can be difficult. Seen it myself with a hawk that flew into my window trying to catch my pet conures parrot - and the hawk felt a bit disjointed while taking time to wait.

That said, as that's not what the OP was focused on, back to the topic

I guess I wasn't clear.
I believe the legend of the Pheonix comes directly from the rare observation of a bird knocked senseless then going through a "resurrection" period. I mean it lays still, then starts breathing, then panting, then it's feathers ruffle to about twice it;s size, then it seems to stop breathing for 15 minutes, then it starts to move a little...then off it goes.

 

[granpa]

Fiery flying serpent



I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms (phoinix) in their hands;


And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I guess I wasn't clear.
I believe the legend of the Pheonix comes directly from the rare observation of a bird knocked senseless then going through a "resurrection" period. I mean it lays still, then starts breathing, then panting, then it's feathers ruffle to about twice it;s size, then it seems to stop breathing for 15 minutes, then it starts to move a little...then off it goes.

Understood - and thanks for the clarification. I can definitely see how it could be the case that the concept of death/resurrection in the Phoenix Bird started from witnessing a rare phenomenon of a bird going through what you mentioned.

Would you happen to have any references in mind for what it is that you brought up? I'd love to investigate sometime....

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Fiery flying serpent



I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms (phoinix) in their hands;


And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

• Isaiah 14:29: "Do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, because the rod that struck you is broken; for out of the serpent's roots will come a viper, and its offspring will be a fiery flying serpent."

Isaiah 30:6: "The burden against the beasts of the South. Through a land of trouble and anguish, from which came the lioness and the lion, the viper and the fiery flying serpent, they will carry their riches on the backs of young donkeys, and their treasures on the humps of camels, to a people who shall not profit;"
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The descriptions seem to be more akin to a Dragon rather than a Phoenix - although I can see how it could possibly apply...particularly if seeing from a distance such a creature and thinking it to be one thing when it could be another.

 

[Coelo]

Understood - and thanks for the clarification. I can definitely see how it could be the case that the concept of death/resurrection in the Phoenix Bird started from witnessing a rare phenomenon of a bird going through what you mentioned.

There was something about the Phoenix where people were able to understand the resurrection. Just like there are references in the Bible of the Eagle and we can understand things by looking at the Eagle. All of creation is going to be redeemed and restored. So the day will come when God is going to bring the Phoenix and all the other extinct birds back again. We are already starting to see that. I live near a national park and already their are birds that are starting to be restored. We have Eagles back again now, we have storks and other large birds flying in our sky now. Of course I am not sure I can tell the difference between an Eagle and a Hawk, but it is nice to look up and see them fly over the area. Just like a Buzzard and a Wild Turkey looks a lot alike until you get up close to get a good look at them. Or even a Dove and a Pigeon are said to look very much the same.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There was something about the Phoenix where people were able to understand the resurrection. Just like there are references in the Bible of the Eagle and we can understand things by looking at the Eagle.

Very astute observation, IMHO - as it'd not be sensible in many respects to bring up references for things for the sake of understanding if/when they didn't exist...and in the same way Leviathian was brought up for reference due to it existing, so it is (IMHO) with the Phoenix.

All of creation is going to be redeemed and restored. So the day will come when God is going to bring the Phoenix and all the other extinct birds back again.

I agree - and it'll be interesting to see such creatures in action...

We are already starting to see that. I live near a national park and already their are birds that are starting to be restored. We have Eagles back again now, we have storks and other large birds flying in our sky now. Of course I am not sure I can tell the difference between an Eagle and a Hawk, but it is nice to look up and see them fly over the area. Just like a Buzzard and a Wild Turkey looks a lot alike until you get up close to get a good look at them. Or even a Dove and a Pigeon are said to look very much the same.

Cool to know - and indeed, the way certain animals look similar is a big deal..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

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[Gxg (G²)]

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[Gxg (G²)]

 

[Gxg (G²)]

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