Peter was not the first Pope. How did we get this anyhow

[bottledwater]

I copied this to explain the Peter as the first Pope lie. Hope this sheds a little light on the topic for each of you.

Constantine the Great, was the first one to claim himself to be the Vicar of Christ, and that is what all of the Popes called themselves.

By the way, I recommend Got Questions for any of you that don't already know about it. They also have an app for Android. Not sure about Iphone.

​

Question: "Was Saint Peter the first pope?"

Answer: The Roman Catholic Church sees Peter as the first pope upon whom God had chosen to build His church (Matthew 16:18). It holds that he had authority (primacy) over the other apostles. The Roman Catholic Church maintains that sometime after the recorded events of the book of Acts, the Apostle Peter became the first bishop of Rome, and that the Roman bishop was accepted by the early church as the central authority among all of the churches. It teaches that God passed Peter’s apostolic authority to those who later filled his seat as bishop of Rome. This teaching that God passed on Peter’s apostolic authority to the subsequent bishops is referred to as “apostolic succession.”
<Staff Edit>

 

[James Is Back]

Mod Hat On

Thread moved from Christian Advice to General Theology.

Mod Hat Off
​

 

[tz620q]

I copied this to explain the Peter as the first Pope lie. Hope this sheds a little light on the topic for each of you.

Constantine the Great, was the first one to claim himself to be the Vicar of Christ, and that is what all of the Popes called themselves.

I've never heard the claim that Constantine the Great claimed to be the Vicar of Christ. Could you provide sources for this information?

 

[PaladinValer]

I copied this to explain the Peter as the first Pope lie. Hope this sheds a little light on the topic for each of you.

Constantine the Great, was the first one to claim himself to be the Vicar of Christ, and that is what all of the Popes called themselves.

By the way, I recommend Got Questions for any of you that don't already know about it. They also have an app for Android. Not sure about Iphone.

​

Question: "Was Saint Peter the first pope?"

Answer: The Roman Catholic Church sees Peter as the first pope upon whom God had chosen to build His church (Matthew 16:18). It holds that he had authority (primacy) over the other apostles. The Roman Catholic Church maintains that sometime after the recorded events of the book of Acts, the Apostle Peter became the first bishop of Rome, and that the Roman bishop was accepted by the early church as the central authority among all of the churches. It teaches that God passed Peter’s apostolic authority to those who later filled his seat as bishop of Rome. This teaching that God passed on Peter’s apostolic authority to the subsequent bishops is referred to as “apostolic succession.”
<Staff Edit>

Pseudohistory. There is absolutely no record of Constantine ever once proclaiming his was the Vicar of Christ.

Furthermore, Apostolic Succession has nothing to do with St. Peter specifically but to the Apostles in general.

 

[tz620q]

Pseudohistory. There is absolutely no record of Constantine ever once proclaiming his was the Vicar of Christ.

Furthermore, Apostolic Succession has nothing to do with St. Peter specifically but to the Apostles in general.

I looked at GotQuestions.org and read the question that he quoted from. It's a fundamental, non-denominational website that answers questions from their own notion of truth with no opportunity to debate or comment. They have a question on "Is Catholicism a false religion?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/catholicism.html

In their answer they state,
"the Catholic Church also leads many people away from a genuine faith relationship with Christ. The unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church have often given the enemies of Christ opportunity to blaspheme. The Roman Catholic Church is not the church that Jesus Christ established. It is not a church that is based on the teachings of the Apostles (as described in the Book of Acts and the New Testament epistles)."

(Sarcasm mode on) Sure, Bottledwater, that's going to become my go-to site for biblical truth because I am just a prisoner in the Catholic Church and need rescuing.

 

[bottledwater]

Pseudohistory. There is absolutely no record of Constantine ever once proclaiming his was the Vicar of Christ.

Furthermore, Apostolic Succession has nothing to do with St. Peter specifically but to the Apostles in general.

Actually you would have to be looking in the wrong direction to miss it.
IO was just warned for posting this Thread by some James guy that is a moderator, so I am not going going to post anything more on this thread.
If you look you will find some evidence. I mean even the History channel has the proper information. So look.
If you would like to PM me on this matter, I will try and help you find what you are looking for.

 

[bottledwater]

I just wanna be clear before I go, That there is no "vicar of Christ". There are only men that have called themselves that.
I mean, do you honestly think that there is someone on earth that is the representative of Christ Jesus, in the sense that he himself is infallible.
Doubtful..............
We the body of Christ are the representatives of our Lord.

 

[tz620q]

Actually you would have to be looking in the wrong direction to miss it.
IO was just warned for posting this Thread by some James guy that is a moderator, so I am not going going to post anything more on this thread.
If you look you will find some evidence. I mean even the History channel has the proper information. So look.
If you would like to PM me on this matter, I will try and help you find what you are looking for.

My brother in Christ,
I think that your original post was intended for a forum that seems like a warm bath compared to the shark tank that is General Theology. Because there is a lot of debate on this sub-forum, the level of proof required here before anyone accepts your opinion as truth is going to be high. So GotQuestions.org and History Channel are typically going to be scoffed at because they both have their own biases. Most of the stuff cited on here is either direct Scripture quotes or Early Church fathers. Also, we all come here with a bit of a chip on our shoulders. So if someone leads with "I copied this to explain the Peter as the first Pope lie", it's going to get a strong reaction from the people that view historical continuity as being important to the preservation of the church.

With God's Love,
Byron

 

[PaladinValer]

I have an actual history degree.

Your information is wrong.

That's all.

 

[tz620q]

edit

(staff edit)

Just a few words on the English word "Pope". It is from the Latin, "Papa", Greek, "Pappas" and means father. There have been several churches in the past and at least two I know of currently that use the term for the head of their church. For the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope is technically the Bishop of Rome. There is quite a bit of historic evidence of Peter being in Rome and being martyred there under Nero. If you would like, I could dig up some of this and post it; but I am leery to jump into another Peter / Pope thread that rehashes what has already been done to death.

 

[bottledwater]

edit

Hey just so you and everyone else knows. I don't ever report anyone. None of these posts are that important to me, and I don't operate that way. I would rather hunt you down and . lol..lol. Just kidding, thought you might get a chuckle there.
Hey, tz, thanks for grabbing that. But, you just said that you pulled it from the Vatican site.
I don't believe anything that comes from them. I see them as a big fat cash cow that doesn't stick to biblical teachings them self, and you just told me that I had to stick to scripture. Why do they get to form an opinion, and you can use their mumbo jumbo for a reference. But, I cannot use GotQuestions, as one of my references.
Is it because they do not endorse the Catholic Chruch? Is that why I can't?
Thank you for going and getting that info, I mean that was really kind of you. But, I no more care about hearing their opinion on this or any subject, any more than anyone on here wants to hear GotQuestions opinion, or any more than I want a root canal.
I hope that you understand that I do appreciate your efforts, But, I am Christ Jesus only. I don't go for the holy mother Mary stuff, and the confessing my sins to some guy that I am supposed to call father.
I already have a Dad, and a Heavenly Father, that tells me that He wants me to come to Him directly, thru Christ Jesus. So I am always going top choose door number 2. I say 2 because God has always been seen as second in this world. Even though He is first.
I mean, this is only my opinion, I certainly have nothing against anyone that does these things.
Different strokes, right?
Like I said, I fell hard for a Sikh girl, name Simran., and I would have married her, on a whim. I have chased plenty of Catholic girls too, and never had a problem with what they believed. Just didn't see how it fit my life.
Actually so, you know where I stand. I don't even go for that eastern orthodox stuff either. I think it is all of the rituals that I find bad.
Jesus was never about rituals, if anything, He was a free spirit, that was all about faith and that alone. I don't just love Jesus. I actually like Him too. I do not like very many people in this world. Maybe 5, 10 tops. I love everyone. But, I certainly don't like them. I Like Jesus.
I tend to go on and on, I know. But that is the consequence of posting anything to me. lol. lol.. You gotta put up with my rambling. lol.
God Bless you, tz.

 

[tadoflamb]

I copied this to explain the Peter as the first Pope lie. Hope this sheds a little light on the topic for each of you.

Constantine the Great, was the first one to claim himself to be the Vicar of Christ, and that is what all of the Popes called themselves.

By the way, I recommend Got Questions for any of you that don't already know about it. They also have an app for Android. Not sure about Iphone.

​

​

Thing is, that's just one non-Catholic's opinion. We had a thread here a few years back where the opinions forwarded by non-Catholics as to who was our first pope was as varied as the non-Catholics themselves. The only thing they could on agree on is it couldn't be who the Catholics say, St. Peter.

 

[tadoflamb]

Thing is, that's just one non-Catholic's opinion. We had a thread here a few years back where the opinions forwarded by non-Catholics as to who was our first pope was as varied as the non-Catholics themselves. The only thing they could on agree on is it couldn't be who the Catholics say, St. Peter.

Found it!

Constantine
The Rock
Pius I
Leo I
Victor I
Stephen I
Barney the Dinosaur
Boniface III
who cares (#342)
Paul
No one knows (#361)
Pius IX
Jesus
Simon Magnus
Gregory the Great
Julius I
Linus
Marcellinus
King of Tyre
Benedict VIII
Leo IX
Victor II
Sixtus I
No one can. We don't know. It's built on sand.
Gregory VII

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

Folks, please do not discuss being warned or reported.
this thread had a small clean up

 

[bottledwater]

Thing is, that's just one non-Catholic's opinion. We had a thread here a few years back where the opinions forwarded by non-Catholics as to who was our first pope was as varied as the non-Catholics themselves. The only thing they could on agree on is it couldn't be who the Catholics say, St. Peter.

Ya, I get it. People are going to believe what they want. That makes sense.

 

[bottledwater]

Found it!

Constantine
The Rock
Pius I
Leo I
Victor I
Stephen I
Barney the Dinosaur
Boniface III
who cares (#342)
Paul
No one knows (#361)
Pius IX
Jesus
Simon Magnus
Gregory the Great
Julius I
Linus
Marcellinus
King of Tyre
Benedict VIII
Leo IX
Victor II
Sixtus I
No one can. We don't know. It's built on sand.
Gregory VII

Nice... lol.. lol.. You made me realize how unimportant this whole thread is.. thanx..

"Barney".. Gotta love it..... hahaha

 

[prodromos]

Actually you would have to be looking in the wrong direction to miss it.

Please post a reference to a primary source. You made the claim on a public forum, you need to back it up publicly.

 

[tz620q]

Hey just so you and everyone else knows. I don't ever report anyone. None of these posts are that important to me, and I don't operate that way. I would rather hunt you down and . lol..lol. Just kidding, thought you might get a chuckle there.

I hope you miss.

Hey, tz, thanks for grabbing that. But, you just said that you pulled it from the Vatican site.
I don't believe anything that comes from them. I see them as a big fat cash cow that doesn't stick to biblical teachings them self, and you just told me that I had to stick to scripture.

That was a special case, where the thread topic was something that the Pope had said in a homily. For that the Vatican site is invaluable in getting the whole story.

When I was talking about Scripture and the Early Church fathers, I saw that you were a new member and was trying to give you guidelines in general on how things go in GT. I was not trying to give hard rules about what is acceptable here. You can certainly use GotQuestions.org as a resource; but people will point out that it is written from the bias of the people that have set up that web site. In a similar fashion, you can point out the bias of Catholic web sites.

Why do they get to form an opinion, and you can use their mumbo jumbo for a reference. But, I cannot use GotQuestions, as one of my references.
Is it because they do not endorse the Catholic Chruch? Is that why I can't?

A general rule that I try to follow is if I am looking for information on the Lutheran church, I will go directly to Lutheran sites or talk to knowledgeable Lutherans on this site. The Catholics on this site are continually trying to defend our beliefs from people that have not followed this advice and have formed their opinion about the Catholic Church from non-Catholic web sites. If you feel that all you hear from Catholics is mumbo jumbo, then you will not listen to anything that we have to say and you are here just to state the opinion of the web sites that you read and not to discuss the merits of that opinion.

Thank you for going and getting that info, I mean that was really kind of you. But, I no more care about hearing their opinion on this or any subject, any more than anyone on here wants to hear GotQuestions opinion, or any more than I want a root canal.
I hope that you understand that I do appreciate your efforts, But, I am Christ Jesus only. I don't go for the holy mother Mary stuff, and the confessing my sins to some guy that I am supposed to call father.
I already have a Dad, and a Heavenly Father, that tells me that He wants me to come to Him directly, thru Christ Jesus. So I am always going top choose door number 2. I say 2 because God has always been seen as second in this world. Even though He is first.
I mean, this is only my opinion, I certainly have nothing against anyone that does these things.
Different strokes, right?

But all of this is just buckshot thrown our way. If this is immaterial to your faith, then why bring it up. If you do not want a Catholic opinion on these topics, why not just keep reading non-Catholic web sites and not start this thread. Don't you see how this attitude could be miscontrued as one of "My opinion is so apparently true and so universally held that any debate can only come from unreasonable people whose logic is so twisted by their denominational affiliation that I can disregard everything they say." There was a book that came out over 10 years ago that claimed that Catholic-bashing was the last acceptable prejudice in the U.S.

Like I said, I fell hard for a Sikh girl, name Simran., and I would have married her, on a whim. I have chased plenty of Catholic girls too, and never had a problem with what they believed. Just didn't see how it fit my life.
Actually so, you know where I stand. I don't even go for that eastern orthodox stuff either. I think it is all of the rituals that I find bad.
Jesus was never about rituals, if anything, He was a free spirit, that was all about faith and that alone. I don't just love Jesus. I actually like Him too. I do not like very many people in this world. Maybe 5, 10 tops. I love everyone. But, I certainly don't like them. I Like Jesus.
I tend to go on and on, I know. But that is the consequence of posting anything to me. lol. lol.. You gotta put up with my rambling. lol.
God Bless you, tz.

My brother in Christ,
Continue your walk with Jesus and do not let anything said on this forum distract you. If anyone seems harsh in anything they post here, it is because most of our beliefs have been sharpened off of one another, so the edges can cut. It is a form of shorthand that we use that dispenses with the niceties and gets right to the disagreement. I know many people on here that I have had heated debates with whom I would probably have a great time talking about our common religion over a beer.

Saved in Hope,
Byron

 

[ViaCrucis]

Constantine the Great, was the first one to claim himself to be the Vicar of Christ, and that is what all of the Popes called themselves.

Constantine was not a bishop, there was a bishop serving in Rome during Constantine's reign, Sylvester I.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I copied this to explain the Peter as the first Pope lie. Hope this sheds a little light on the topic for each of you.

Constantine the Great, was the first one to claim himself to be the Vicar of Christ, and that is what all of the Popes called themselves.

By the way, I recommend Got Questions for any of you that don't already know about it. They also have an app for Android. Not sure about Iphone.

​

People give Constantine more credit than he deserves. I honestly believe the guy probably wasn't a confessing Christian until his last breath, if even at all. He also followed typical Roman traditions, but seeing as he can't claim to be a god, he picked the next best thing. he legalized and promoted Christianity, but I don't think he was tearing down pagan temples or anything.