Perfection?

[ahman]

clem, basically, you believe in what we call sin, but you use a different name, and no it doesn't make you cool.

also, when you went on your spamming session about perfect at what, i had posted an answer like one post after your first one, so perhaps you coulda dealt with that.

 

[Inperfected]

It's kinda like playing catch with an adult when your a child. You can't catch, but the adult may feel you've tried your hardest so will turn around and catch you. But that's more an analogy to catching god isn't it.. But the whoel perfection thing works in aprroxiamtely the same way i think as we can't be, but god will at some point see we are trying our human best, and give us some more spiritual strength to get throught that stuff we are finding impossible.

 

[Clem is Me]

clem, basically, you believe in what we call sin, but you use a different name, and no it doesn't make you cool.

also, when you went on your spamming session about perfect at what, i had posted an answer like one post after your first one, so perhaps you coulda dealt with that.

Wow, you are one haughty kid. Maybe you should repost that one because I could not seem to find it.

As far as sin, I do not believe in sin because I do not believe in God.

 

[elman]

Not as a thing that infects people, no. Not as a condition, no. As a result, maybe. Even then it's hyperbole, but hyperbole roXXorzz. I understand what people mean when they say something is evil, but I don't think they are being accurate.

So you don't believe the slaugher of women and children is evil, right? Hitler and his bunch were not evil? Stalin was not evil?

 

[Blackmarch]

So is it possible to be perfect? Why? Why not?

If we could live for eternity, and remain humble, perfection is very well in our grasp.

 

[Clem is Me]

So you don't believe the slaugher of women and children is evil, right? Hitler and his bunch were not evil? Stalin was not evil?

Nope. They were insane. Powermad and paranoid. They sterted from bad premises and were delivered power through illegal means. What they did to those people could be called evil, although I would likely call it extrememely negative and leave it at that, but they themselves weren't evil.

 

[Clem is Me]

So you don't believe the slaugher of women and children is evil, right? Hitler and his bunch were not evil? Stalin was not evil?

By the way, why is the slaughter of women and children worse than the slaughter of men and the aged?

 

[elman]

By the way, why is the slaughter of women and children worse than the slaughter of men and the aged?

It is all evil, but the aged lose less than the young. The young not only lose their life, but their opportunity to live.

 

[elman]

Nope. They were insane. Powermad and paranoid. They sterted from bad premises and were delivered power through illegal means. What they did to those people could be called evil, although I would likely call it extrememely negative and leave it at that, but they themselves weren't evil.

People who do evil are evil. No sarcasm intended. People who chose to harm other people are evil.

 

[Clem is Me]

No they aren't. No sarcasm intended.

 

[Buzz Dixon]

Nope. They were insane. Powermad and paranoid. They sterted from bad premises and were delivered power through illegal means. What they did to those people could be called evil, although I would likely call it extrememely negative and leave it at that, but they themselves weren't evil.

The Nazis were many things, but they were not insane. They were deliberate, calculating, and rational even if their hatreds had irrational basis.

 

[Clem is Me]

Killing that many people is not rational. Deliberate, yes, calculating, sure, but very irrational. And what sane person starts a war with Russia and America before finishing a war with Britain?

 

[Buzz Dixon]

Killing that many people is not rational. Deliberate, yes, calculating, sure, but very irrational. And what sane person starts a war with Russia and America before finishing a war with Britain?

Hitler had to keep moving forward; if he ever faltered his own people would have turned on him. He had a belief in his own greater destiny and felt he could pull it off and, if he didn't, then it was his duty to punish the German people for failing him.

It was a near thing, WWII. The Nazi long range bomber program was set back several years by the death of the Luftwafte general in charge of the project; as a result Hitler couldn't chase the Russians factories across the Urals when Stalin ordered them moved out of medium bomber range. The war actually wasn't supposed to start until 1942; Hitler felt neither England nor France would fight when he invaded Poland. He also felt that England would sue for peace and leave Europe to him (they nearly did, too, even after Churchill became prime minister; the miracle of Dunkirk is all they kept 'em going). He certainly didn't think Churchill would make an alliance with Stalin (Churchill's famous remark on that was, "If Hitler invaded Hell, I'd feel compelled to say some kind words on behalf of Satan.").

If Hitler had his bombers, an additional 3 years to build his military, and a neutralized France and Germany at his back, and if he had not foolishly declared war on the U.S. (his pact with Japan only required Germany to help Japan if America attacked first, not if the Japanese launched the first strike), and if his troops had not been so ruthless in retaliating against Russian partisans (they were welcomed as liberators when they first entered Russia), he might have caused the communist government to collapse and ended up with Easstern Europe and the Ukraine, which was his real goal.

Remember, he succeeded at just about every audacious gamnble he took until Barbarosa.

 

[Clem is Me]

If if if. He didn't. He started the war far too soon, far too brazenly and his miscalculations were easy to pick apart by anyone not caught up in his own myth. He was not ready to cross the channel when he started the battle of Britain and he had never really listened to the people who knew how to fight a war. he had charisma and good technique for fighting that had not been tried before. If he would have annexed Poland and Austria and left the low countries alone, hwe would have gotten away with it because he was "liberating" german people, but his delusions pushed him past critical thinking and made him grab far more than was actually available.

 

[amonk]

Killing that many people is not rational. Deliberate, yes, calculating, sure, but very irrational. And what sane person starts a war with Russia and America before finishing a war with Britain?

Is love an irrational calculation ?

It is blind and is expected so what would this point to ?

But it is my choice to believe that Hitler is morally wrong in any view since I'm not blinded by the truth of Good and Love ..

Love is an expression of ones personal wish to express there actions to help the world not to destroy it as a wish is only useful if used unselfishly .

My best knowledge on Hitler is he had a psychological dysfunction ,this is proven by his own dignity which he felt strong to defend as he is the type who could never admit his wrongs in his life , he would have considered himself to be perfect but in the eyes of God (I'm buddhist) he not see himself in anyway irrational,naive & immoral , he would be the re-incarnation of lucifer .

He was perfect but for a cause to be something of an anti-christ .

 

[elman]

No they aren't. No sarcasm intended.

Are they loving? If not why then are they not evil-unloving?

 

[Clem is Me]

Are they loving? If not why then are they not evil-unloving?

This doesn't make any sense. Rephrase it.

 

[Blessed2003]

If if if. He didn't. He started the war far too soon, far too brazenly and his miscalculations were easy to pick apart by anyone not caught up in his own myth. He was not ready to cross the channel when he started the battle of Britain and he had never really listened to the people who knew how to fight a war. he had charisma and good technique for fighting that had not been tried before. If he would have annexed Poland and Austria and left the low countries alone, hwe would have gotten away with it because he was "liberating" german people, but his delusions pushed him past critical thinking and made him grab far more than was actually available.

Hey CLem:
if if if, cute, your right, if is irrelevent, and dangitt I sure do wish I had not missed those History lessons that I so ignorantly thought didn't apply to me! (hindsight is 20/20)
So, anyway, if I understand you, you say you don't believe in 'evil' and that Hitler was a delusional insane person, instead of evil. Clem, come on.
Well, let's get technical, what is your definition of insane? Maybe that is key.
I'm frankly curious now, after reading your posts.


Trust me, I don't have a desire to win you over to my 'way of thinking', at all, but I want for you to be comfortable calling evil what it is, without having to attach it to religion.
You said you don't believe in God? OK, but maybe (i'm speaking hypothetically here) evil and good can exist anyway, would you think that possible?
Why do we have to be against each other, can't we learn from each other? I'm different in that I believe in God, probbly, that is it, and the rest of us too.
I believe if we'll be honest we can get somewhere, don't you.
Bye Clem, see you around~

 

[Clem is Me]

I don't believe in evil as a definition of a human, or a place or a thing. I believe in a human being evil the way I believe in Jesse Owens being fast, not the way I believe he was a carbon based life form.

 

[elman]

This doesn't make any sense. Rephrase it.

Maybe you will understand better if I point out that my definition of evil is to be unloving.