Overseas soldiers mad at Bush

[2001MustangGT]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/20/203311/594


Soldiers overseas are upset at Bush and turning towards Kerry for the vote. But you didnt needd to tell me that with an article; my Marine buddies in Falloujah and Tikrit (and another about to be shipped overseas in early 05) have been saying this for months now!

Apparently, F9/11 is a big hit overseas and it has influenced alot of Americans not living in America.

In related news, the absentee ballots may be the next disenfranchised group! Apparently, the DoD/Pentagon has restricted useage of its webpage for absentee voters overseas, citing security concerns.

What the heck? Funny how such a big entity as the DoD can restrict useage by legitimate users, when Microsoft or IBM (which also get web attacks constantly) simply shores up their defenses; they never restrict usage for any users.

I really hope that all those wonderful patriotic overseas Americans, especially soldiers, get their chance to vote and be counted!

http://www.overseasvote2004.com/

http://www.overseasvote.com/

How truly fitting and totally ironic, that the absentee ballot will be the next controversial issue when the votes are cast! They better all get counted this time

 

[Praise2God]

...In related news, the absentee ballots may be the next disenfranchised group! Apparently, the DoD/Pentagon has restricted useage of its webpage for absentee voters overseas, citing security concerns.

What the heck? Funny how such a big entity as the DoD can restrict useage by legitimate users, when Microsoft or IBM (which also get web attacks constantly) simply shores up their defenses; they never restrict usage for any users.

I really hope that all those wonderful patriotic overseas Americans, especially soldiers, get their chance to vote and be counted!


...
How truly fitting and totally ironic, that the absentee ballot will be the next controversial issue when the votes are cast! They better all get counted this time

Why are the democrats crying foul about the absentee ballot now? Weren't they the ones who prevented any overseas vote to count in 2000 election?

 

[2001MustangGT]

Why are the democrats crying foul about the absentee ballot now?

Democrats are not crying foul. The soldiers and overseas Americans are.

Weren't they the ones who prevented any overseas vote to count in 2000 election?

It was overshadowed by the more blatant and obvious disenfranchisement of the black minority in Florida.

And IIRC, the absentee ballot thing in 2000 was more about ballots that missed the deadline than absentee voters that were "turned away" or had their legitimate votes discounted.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me... uh... twice, um... uh... well, the point is you cant get fooled again!

 

[Praise2God]

Democrats are not crying foul. The soldiers and overseas Americans are.

It was overshadowed by the more blatant and obvious disenfranchisement of the black minority in Florida.

And IIRC, the absentee ballot thing in 2000 was more about ballots that missed the deadline than absentee voters that were "turned away" or had their legitimate votes discounted.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me... uh... twice, um... uh... well, the point is you cant get fooled again!

Isn't the "disenfranchisement" of the the black minority has something to do with allowing a felony to vote? I thought if you have a felony record you lose the right to vote. What gives?

 

[burrow_owl]

Isn't the "disenfranchisement" of the the black minority has something to do with allowing a felony to vote? I thought if you have a felony record you lose the right to vote. What gives?

In some places, in some places not. I believe that in FL, the law is that felons are allowed to vote after a certain time. The problem with FL is that they never reinstated felons' rights in accordance with FL law. Interestingly, they did do that with the FL hispanics, with whom Bush has favor. Looks suspicious.

 

[2001MustangGT]

Isn't the "disenfranchisement" of the the black minority has something to do with allowing a felony to vote? I thought if you have a felony record you lose the right to vote. What gives?

I think you are confusing the "disenfranchisement" punishments given to felons, with the "disenfranchisment" issues that took place in FL in 2000.

The word still means the same thing, but in this case it has different contexts. One is a lawful disenfranchisement of felons, the other is an illegal refusal of voting rights to regular registered voters that happened to be black.

Heres some links for you to check out:

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/main.htm

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch2.htm

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=76450

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1372065.stm

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20010205&s=palast

I hope those help

 

[2001MustangGT]

In some places, in some places not. I believe that in FL, the law is that felons are allowed to vote after a certain time. The problem with FL is that they never reinstated felons' rights in accordance with FL law. Interestingly, they did do that with the FL hispanics, with whom Bush has favor. Looks suspicious.

disenfranchisement can be used to describe any situation in which a voter was not allowed to vote, legal or illegal, felon or innocent.

Check out those linkes I just posted, especially the top two ones.

 

[Praise2God]

I think you are confusing the "disenfranchisement" punishments given to felons, with the "disenfranchisment" issues that took place in FL in 2000.

The word still means the same thing, but in this case it has different contexts. One is a lawful disenfranchisement of felons, the other is an illegal refusal of voting rights to regular registered voters that happened to be black.

Heres some links for you to check out:

I hope those help

Excerts:
<<<< On November 7, 2000, millions of Florida voters arrived at their designated polling places to cast their votes. Unfortunately, countless voters were denied the opportunity to vote because their names did not appear on the lists of registered voters. When poll workers attempted to call the supervisors of elections offices to verify voter registration status, they were often met with continuous busy signals or no answer. In accordance with their training, most poll workers refused to permit persons to vote whose names did not appear on the rolls at their precinct. Thus, numerous Floridians were turned away from the polls on Election Day without being allowed to vote and with no opportunity to appeal the poll workers’ refusal. The following are a few examples of experiences that Floridians had who were turned away from their polling places. >>>>

Why/how do you think this happened? Isn't this the responsibility of the local/State officials? Why blame Bush? He wasn't the president yet. Yes his brother was the governor. But I find it illogical that he, being in high profile position such as the governor, would ever get his hands dirty by fixing the ballots.

 

[kermit]

Why are the democrats crying foul about the absentee ballot now? Weren't they the ones who prevented any overseas vote to count in 2000 election?

It wasn't any overseas vote, it was the only ones that were post marked after the deadline.

 

[2001MustangGT]

Why/how do you think this happened? Isn't this the responsibility of the local/State officials? Why blame Bush? He wasn't the president yet. Yes his brother was the governor. But I find it illogical that he, being in high profile position such as the governor, would ever get his hands dirty by fixing the ballots.

Im not blaming anybody. This thread is about the overseas Americans, notably soldiers, that are upset at Bush and will cast their ballots.

And this thread is also about the hopes that no ballot/vote issues arise with the absentee ballots in 2004 (or any other ballots for that matter, even the ones in republican-dominated areas hehe)

 

[burrow_owl]

Why blame Bush?

I am. Jeb Bush. Who I'm sure doesn't communicate with George Bush, seeing as they aren't related or anything.

 

[Jewles]

People ask why democrates hate Bush so bad, and the more i think about it, the more i think i can answer that question. FLORIDA. Face it people, that state was stolen. You can talk all you want about the supreme court. But that court shouldnt have even been in the middle of it. Its a states responsibility and the fact that the Supreme Court got into it should make everyone look twice at it. Someone asked about the absentee ballots that wernt counted. Well you give me one good reason why a ballot should be counted when its not postmarked by the designated date? And no one is yelling about the Felon list because we are mad that the felons couldnt vote. Its because that list included some 60 thousand people that WERNT felons that were on the felon list. And it was the states responsibility to get that list right, who in particular? Katherine Harris, and she just happened to be working for GWB's Campaign. Seems like a little bit of a conflict of interest if you ask me, but no one did. Now the 60 thousand that wernt su[pposed to be on that felon list, well how do you make a mistake like that? It gets even better, 90 something percent were black and from democratic counties. How do they know this? Cause there race was right next to there name on this list. Accident? How can this be a accident?

This folks, is why the UN will be watching this time. Sad isnt it, that we cant trust ourselves enough to hold a fair election.

 

[Katydid]

OK so now that everyone is done with their suppositions about what overseas voters are thinking, how about a couple words from one. I don't know who that reporter talked to, but I live in a building with 4 people in my stairwell, OH GUESS WHAT!!! All of us intend on voting for Bush. Oh, and here you go, in the whole building there are about 10 people, and only one of them that I have spoken to isn't voting for Bush and that is because she is German citizen and can't vote. Now, yes there are some that plan on voting for Kerry, but most of them are lower enlisted, and don't realize the benefits of a Republican President, or are under some misguided impression that if Kerry takes office he is going to magically recall all the troops. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN!! We have to finish what was started. There is no getting around that. Also, fvap.gov, the site to go on for all your voting information, well, I have had no trouble whatsoever, and even IF IF IF they were limiting access to that site, every unit has a voting assistance officer, all you do is tell them you want to vote, and they hand you a registration card. You mail it in, or they do, and you recieve your ballot. So whatever you think this grand conspiracy is, sorry there isn't one.

 

[Inner City Blues]

Excerts:
<<<< On November 7, 2000, millions of Florida voters arrived at their designated polling places to cast their votes. Unfortunately, countless voters were denied the opportunity to vote because their names did not appear on the lists of registered voters. When poll workers attempted to call the supervisors of elections offices to verify voter registration status, they were often met with continuous busy signals or no answer. In accordance with their training, most poll workers refused to permit persons to vote whose names did not appear on the rolls at their precinct. Thus, numerous Floridians were turned away from the polls on Election Day without being allowed to vote and with no opportunity to appeal the poll workers’ refusal. The following are a few examples of experiences that Floridians had who were turned away from their polling places. >>>>

Why/how do you think this happened? Isn't this the responsibility of the local/State officials? Why blame Bush? He wasn't the president yet. Yes his brother was the governor. But I find it illogical that he, being in high profile position such as the governor, would ever get his hands dirty by fixing the ballots.

I don't know why you're bringing this up in this thread. As soon as the situation is explained in 2000, you want to turn this into people blaming Bush. Well we do blame Bush, Jeb Bush. They used this system to purge their voter rolls and ended up taking out a lot of minorities. They knew the system was flawed, but they didn't care because they knew it would help George W. Bush in the election. They tried to do it again and then it started to backfire. Too many Hispanic names were being purged, so they abandoned the practice because they want to retain the Cuban vote. Very simple. Absentee ballots postmarked after the election were not counted, because they were postmarked after the polls were closed.

 

[Inner City Blues]

OK so now that everyone is done with their suppositions about what overseas voters are thinking, how about a couple words from one. I don't know who that reporter talked to, but I live in a building with 4 people in my stairwell, OH GUESS WHAT!!! All of us intend on voting for Bush. Oh, and here you go, in the whole building there are about 10 people, and only one of them that I have spoken to isn't voting for Bush and that is because she is German citizen and can't vote. Now, yes there are some that plan on voting for Kerry, but most of them are lower enlisted, and don't realize the benefits of a Republican President, or are under some misguided impression that if Kerry takes office he is going to magically recall all the troops. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN!! We have to finish what was started. There is no getting around that. Also, fvap.gov, the site to go on for all your voting information, well, I have had no trouble whatsoever, and even IF IF IF they were limiting access to that site, every unit has a voting assistance officer, all you do is tell them you want to vote, and they hand you a registration card. You mail it in, or they do, and you recieve your ballot. So whatever you think this grand conspiracy is, sorry there isn't one.

That's the best measure of how to vote for an election...

Just because the people around you, or your friends are all voting one way doesn't mean anything. Everyone on the block I live on will be voting for Kerry, does that mean that Kerry will definitely win my state? Not necessarily. I could live in a very Democratic area, while most of the state is Repbulican. It's like the southern counties in Texas along the Mexican border, they're Republican but you can't expect to know the voting pattern of Texas by asking them who they're voting for. If they said, all the people around me are voting Democrat, that doesn't indicate the state will be for the Democrats.

Likewise, just because the 5-10 people in your building are voting for Bush, doesn't mean the overseas votes will go to Bush, although they traditionally are Republican, but 2004 is a very differet year. How can life under a Republican be so good? Your pay is cut, the VA had its funding cut, you were sent to Iraq without body armor, etc., etc.? Should I list all the things that you're not getting from the government (House, Senate, and President all Republican).

 

[Jewles]

Should I list all the things that you're not getting from the government (House, Senate, and President all Republican).

Could you???

 

[Grizzly]

Isn't the "disenfranchisement" of the the black minority has something to do with allowing a felony to vote? I thought if you have a felony record you lose the right to vote. What gives?

Florida (as in 7 other states) requires that felons have to petition the government to get their voting rights back.

But the big issue here (I live in Florida) is the inaccuracies of the list. There were many, many, names on their of people who committed no crime, but were denied their right to vote. That's disenfranchisement.

 

[onzaga]

ms harris of flordia fame put out a list of felons to be taken off voting lists (this list was added to by another list of texas felons)
when this wasn't enough people with the same birthdays as felons were taken off lists,then people with names similar to fellons were
taken off...get the picture?

 

[Katydid]

Just because the people around you, or your friends are all voting one way doesn't mean anything. Everyone on the block I live on will be voting for Kerry, does that mean that Kerry will definitely win my state? Not necessarily. I could live in a very Democratic area, while most of the state is Repbulican. It's like the southern counties in Texas along the Mexican border, they're Republican but you can't expect to know the voting pattern of Texas by asking them who they're voting for. If they said, all the people around me are voting Democrat, that doesn't indicate the state will be for the Democrats.

You are absolutely right, but since there was so much speculation going around about what all of us overseas are going to be doing, I thought I would input about the people I live around. All that article did was show one person and his view of what the people around him will do. I figured I would level things out a bit.

Your pay is cut, the VA had its funding cut, you were sent to Iraq without body armor, etc., etc.?

What pay scale are you looking at??? We had the largest pay increase in 20 years under Bush. The VA needs to be looked at, they are refusing benefits to people who need it (my father) and giving them to some who don't it is an abused system that needs to be investigated. Body armor was supported by the president and voted against by Kerry. Our Family seperation pay and our hazardous duty pay were both increased. Just about everyone in the military benefited from the tax cuts, oh and by the way, we receive more tax free death payments now than before. Please show me somewhere where we have suffered finacially. For all the discomfort of the extended deployments, finances is not something that we have to worry about. Not for active duty at least. The reservists did feel it, but they also volunteered for that. They are now looking at ways to help ease the financial burden on reservists and guard when they are called up. Please please explain to me where you think this administration has injured us financially.

 

[Inner City Blues]

What pay scale are you looking at??? We had the largest pay increase in 20 years under Bush. The VA needs to be looked at, they are refusing benefits to people who need it (my father) and giving them to some who don't it is an abused system that needs to be investigated. Body armor was supported by the president and voted against by Kerry. Our Family seperation pay and our hazardous duty pay were both increased. Just about everyone in the military benefited from the tax cuts, oh and by the way, we receive more tax free death payments now than before. Please show me somewhere where we have suffered finacially. For all the discomfort of the extended deployments, finances is not something that we have to worry about. Not for active duty at least. The reservists did feel it, but they also volunteered for that. They are now looking at ways to help ease the financial burden on reservists and guard when they are called up. Please please explain to me where you think this administration has injured us financially.

I think I'll take the body armor question first, I said you weren't sent to Iraq with body armor, why not? That should have been a priority. Kerry did not vote against giving the military equipment. First of all, it was Kerry that sponsored a bill saying that all soldiers who bought body armor on their own must be reimbursed by the government. Second of all, the bill you say he voted against arming the soldiers on, all the money didn't go to the soldiers. Provisions were added to that bill and you had billions of dollars being spent that had nothing to do with the soldiers. It's like you have a bill that everyone supports, but then the opposition party sneaks in a provision that says, "all Congressman will get Thai hookers." This is what happened with that bill you're talking about, that's why people voted against the bill, they knew it would pass, but they wanted votes that protested these provisions that did not support the troops.

As I said, VA benefits have been cut and now you're blaming people for mooching off the system? Why is that every program designed to help the sick and poor, it's okay to cut the system to prevent people from "abusing" it. Seems many corporations and rich people have been abusing the system to get richer. Should we allow no more government subsidies and tax credits? The "abuse" of the system is a weak argument and cutting funds is not how you deal with it. You reform the system if the problem arise, but cutting a program is not productive (as you well can see). I find interesting how you can see the effects of the cuts on your own family and because of your political leanings, you still accept it. Typical.