Our bishop calls for a greater role for the laity as major changes are announced

Colin

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There are going to be some radical changes in how the parishes in our diocese are organised and ministered to .

We had a letter from Bishop Arnold on Sunday and were given the document detailing the changes.....The Tablet
 

Martinius

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The Church, universally and locally, really has no choice in this. Parishes have to be consolidated or closed, and the laity have to take on a greater role. Which they are willing and capable of doing.

In my former diocese, where I resided for decades, we went through, and they are still going through, a similar process. Several years ago, a comprehensive consolidation plan was begun, as it was projected that the diocese would have only about 100 priests to cover over 200 parishes by the year 2020. In the area where I resided for several years, we went from 7 parishes to two. And one of those two was sharing a priest with another parish, not of the original seven.

The Church is being forced to consider how it can continue to provide the Sacraments to the people and maintain parish communities, with a system totally inadequate for the job. Major changes must occur.
 
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Fish and Bread

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the laity have to take on a greater role. Which they are willing and capable of doing.

In my former diocese, where I resided for decades, we went through, and they are still going through, a similar process. Several years ago, a comprehensive consolidation plan was begun, as it was projected that the diocese would have only about 100 priests to cover over 200 parishes by the year 2020. In the area where I resided for several years, we went from 7 parishes to two. And one of those two was sharing a priest with another parish, not of the original seven.

The Church is being forced to consider how it can continue to provide the Sacraments to the people and maintain parish communities, with a system totally inadequate for the job. Major changes must occur.

How about allowing married priests, which even conservatives generally will admit is only a matter of discipline and not a matter of doctrine? In other words, the question there, unlike some other issues, is not whether it can be done or whether its doctrinally correct to do it, but rather simply "Is it prudent to do it?". In areas where there is a priest shortage and a lack of access to the sacraments, to me the answer to "Is it prudent?" is a resounding "Yes!", at least in these particular areas.

The other thing we could do is expand the permanent diaconate. I honestly would say "Expand it to women!" in a perfect world, but if they are unwilling or feel unable to do that, they could do things like encourage more men to try to discern whether or not they have vocations to the diaconate, make more seminary level courses available to lay people for free with the idea that maybe they will "get hooked" and consider becoming deacons, ask every male lay parish administrator if he's considered becoming a deacon, etc.. Vatican II is well known for empowering the laity, which it did, and doing so was and is a *good* thing, *but* often overlooked is that Vatican II is also the council that restored the permanent diaconate, IIRC (It was at least a reform of that era, if not strictly conciliar). There's no reason why we shouldn't at least give every priestless parish a permanent deacon to lead services and distribute pre-consecrated communion if necessary.
 
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Martinius

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How about allowing married priests, which even conservatives generally will admit is only a matter of discipline and not a matter of doctrine? In other words, the question there, unlike some other issues, is not whether it can be done or whether its doctrinally correct to do it, but rather simply "Is it prudent to do it?". In areas where there is a priest shortage and a lack of access to the sacraments, to me the answer to "Is it prudent?" Is a resounding "Yes!", at least in these particular areas.

The other thing we could do is expand the permanent deaconate. I honestly would say "Expand it to women!" in a perfect world, but if they are unwilling or feel unable to do that, they could do things like encourage more men to try to discern whether or not they have vocations to the deaconate, make more seninary level courses available to lay people for free with the idea that maybe they will "get hooked" and consider becoming deacons, ask every male lay parish adminstrator if he's considered becoming a deacon, etc.. Vatican II is well known for empowering the laity, which it did, and doing so was and is a *good* thing, *but* often overlooked is that Vatican II is also the council that restored the permanent deaconate, IIRC (It was at least a reform of that era, if not strictly councillar). There's no reaosn why we shouldn't at least give every priestless parish a permenent deacon to lead services and distribute preconcecrated communion if necessary.
I am not sure if this is happening everywhere, but it seems that over the past decade I have noticed a decline in Permanent Deacons. Many retiring and few, if any, replacing them. There also seems to be little promotion of the program, as if the Church is ignoring it, and perhaps would have it die off. That is my impression. I would like to see it grow and be expanded to include women.
 
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Colin

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We have never had permanent deacons in our diocese , but following consultations throughout the diocese our bishop has decided to introduce the permanent diaconate in the diocese .

As for married priests , I have no problems with them , but , looking at the Anglican and Methodist churches who have married clergy , but who are also struggling with a shortage of clergy , I see no evidence that this would lead to an increase of Catholic priests .

More vocations to the priesthood may come about when we have more committed Catholics .
 
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Paidiske

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Mmm... not sure I agree with you, Colin. Forced to choose between marriage and vocation, many people will decide they can't do lifelong singleness.

Will it solve everything? No. But will some people who would otherwise not have offered for ordination, offer? I have no doubt.

But here's a question for you: is it always that no priest is available, or is it that some parishes can no longer afford the expense of the priest? In my diocese, where parishes are closing it's not for lack of priests, but it's often for lack of money.
 
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Colin

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But here's a question for you: is it always that no priest is available, or is it that some parishes can no longer afford the expense of the priest? .

It doesn't come down to money , Paidske .

One cause for the changes is that in the 1950s too many new churches were built in the diocese when there was no real need for them .

Another reason is that for many years the diocese could rely upon many , many priests from Ireland coming to serve in the diocese . That source has dried up .

Then the number of men coming forward from within the diocese to be priests has reduced considerably .

Hence we have too many churches for the number of priests in the diocese .

The reduction of vocations to the priesthood can't be isolated from what is happening within the Catholic Church in the diocese . There has been and continues to be a decline in the number of committed Catholics . Baptisms , Catholic marriages , Catholics attending Sunday Eucharist etc. are all in decline . Priests come , on the whole , from Catholic families .

In Africa there is an increase in Catholics along side an increase in priests , though even there the increase in priests isn't keeping up with the increase in Catholics .
 
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Mountainmike

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There are going to be some radical changes in how the parishes in our diocese are organised and ministered to .

We had a letter from Bishop Arnold on Sunday and were given the document detailing the changes.....The Tablet
Wow, that is close to home. I underwent RCIA in that diocese, and was a member of those congregations for some years
 
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Colin

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Wow, that is close to home. I underwent RCIA in that diocese, and was a member of those congregations for some years
That's a surprise , brother .

I know Manchester fairly well , having gone to college there , but my parish is in Accrington , still in Lancashire .

Which parts of the Salford diocese are you acquainted with ?
 
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Mountainmike

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That's a surprise , brother .

I know Manchester fairly well , having gone to college there , but my parish is in Accrington , still in Lancashire .

Which parts of the Salford diocese are you acquainted with ?

I had a businessewith connections to Salford U, and much later was travelling across Manchester to reach a business on the Oldham side. So at various times attended hidden gem, because of daily exposition, and the cathedral, but also a fair period at holy name / Manchester U before the jesuits took it back and the oratory moved on. When I sold that business I no longer had cause to travel across Manchester, so lost connections there. Memories! I hadn't realised Bishop Brain had retired till I saw your post! It is some years ago.
 
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