Other's opinions about Pentecostals (Holiness)

[onelamb]

Biblical standards are one thing-but man made standards such as, 'no cutting hair" or "no pants for women"-are just that-man made standards. If you want to do those things then fine-but that doesn't mean that women who wear pants or who cut their hair are not following "biblical standards". Nor does it mean that those who do those things are somehow, more holy than those who do not.

 

[Nessie]

Biblical standards are one thing-but man made standards such as, 'no cutting hair" or "no pants for women"-are just that-man made standards. If you want to do those things then fine-but that doesn't mean that women who wear pants or who cut their hair are not following "biblical standards". Nor does it mean that those who do those things are somehow, more holy than those who do not.

Actually, both of those examples are in the Bible.

I Corinthians 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(and one would say, but pants do pertain to a woman today! Nope. The symbol on the girls restroom is wearing a dress. Anytime a silhouette is used for a woman, a majority of the time she is in a dress. Also, go up to a random person and give them a pen and a piece of paper. Ask them to draw a quick picture of a man and a woman, and they have 15 seconds. In this quick drawing, the woman is more likely than not to be wearing a dress and have long hair.)

There are not man's rules; these are God's rules.

That said, I will also say this. If you are going into a new dnomination, such as a holiness one, first you must make the inside holy. You cannot cover up the inside by just appearing in the holiness "standards" of dress. Also, you do what God convicts you of, not what man does.

Also, holiness standards differ from church to church. I used to go to a church where your holiness was determined by your sleeve length (long sleeves, full christian; 3/4 sleeves, 75% Christian, etc.). That is WRONG. In my church now we usually wear our sleeves no shorter than elbow length, but there are some people who do, and you know what? No one's condemning them or kicking them out or making them feel like sinners (or even believing that they are sinners. Sleeve length or pants or dresses or whatever is not the key to Heaven). God called us to be on the witness stand; not in the judgement seat.

 

[Gumdrop71]

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
================================
All those men in the old testament time who wore robe/skirt like garments were wearing what???
Also, Samson never cut his hair that was a common practice for his people....

 

[TwistrAndy]

Wasn't Samson in the old testament? God did alot of stuff in the old testament that isn't continued into the new testament. The scripture that Nessie gave was in 1 Corinthians the New Testament. I'm just reading the Bible and believing what it says. BTW, I never said anyone was going to hell for wearing a pair of shorts, or pants, or whatever. No one on this thread condemned anyone. People often take those judgemental holiness churches, and say that all holiness churches are like that, which is far from the truth. Our church is a holiness church, we stand by it and we will continue to stand by it. We treat visitors very kindly, they often come back, and continue their journey with the Lord. The old-time churches don't rely on the "Let every sinner that walks in the door be a member in the books, be a deacon, play instruments, sing in the choir, be an elder, and maybe by letting them do whatever they want in the church they'll get saved someday", we rely on the convicting power of the Holy Ghost which drove people to the altar till the altars were full. The Bible says in 2 word-for-word scriptures in Timothy and Peter that we are to be un-adorned, we are not to wear extravagent clothing, pearls, gold, or broided hair (and don't even try the "it's "braided hair" thing cause the KJV says broided as do all the others, which is where you put jewels and beads and things in your hair) In the Epistles to Timothy and Peter, Paul stressed that we should avoid those things, and rather seek a meek and quiet spirit, which comes from women who profess godliness. So, I'll stick with what the Bible says, and you stick with what your Bible says. I'm just tired of the fact that everytime the word "holiness" is mentioned a big debate gets started up. I believe that if the Bible says don't wear or do something, not once but twice, then it's worth taking a look at, and reading, and studying, and then conform to the Word, not the World. In 1 Corinthians there is about a half-chapter on "Women Long Hair, Men Short Hair". Read it, study it, and conform to it. Where men made this stuff up I don't know, something man-made can't be traced back into the Bible, and every bit of Holiness (that I know of) can be traced to the Bible. We do not read something we like and shout over it, and then read something we don't like and then say "ohhh, that must mean something else, God couldn't possibly want me to quit wearing this, cause it's whats on the inside that counts", well the inner reflects on the outer, the condition of your heart will reflect in EVERY thing you do. If you have true holiness then your inner man will match with the outer, and yes that includes pride, gossip, wrath, etc. People just get hung up on the "Dress Code" and that's all that gets talked about. I mean it says don't get drunk in the Bible so you don't because it says so, then it says don't wear extravagent clothes, wear gold or pearls, twice, but no body pays it any attention. Well, I'm paying attention to what I see, and conforming to the Bible, the whole thing, yes, I mess up, but I'm trying my best with the Lord's help, and I'm not depending on my "dress code" to get me to heaven.

 

[akasmom]

If I may be so bold as to say so, I am impressed with the dedication of the young men and women on this forum. I don't agree necessarily with the "Holy Ghost dress code" (I'm wearing jeans right now, I'm not averse to makeup) but the courage to stand up for convictions in a manner that is non-judgemental, loving and serious is a beautiful thing, I encourage you in your quest to apply the Word to every part of your life and live the Way (as the early church called it). If I might be even more bold, here is an observation I have made, and ya'll can do what you want with it:
In general, in the Bible when something gets repeated in the New Testament from the Old, it's because the cross didn't change it. For instance, OT says a man shall live by his faith, and that is repeated in the NT, because Jesus sacrifice didn't change the need for us to live by faith. The OT has many laws about food, but in the NT God tells us we can eat what He has made clean (which is everything). Jesus said it wasn't what you put into your body that made it unclean, but what comes out! Romans 14 is all about eating, but many of the principles can be applied to things like clothing, etc. If you have a conviction, go with what the Lord is showing you, just be sure it's not guilt or condemnation (which don't belong to you). If you feel the Lord telling you to dress that way, you have the grace to do it, but don't fall into the trap that that is making you holy - how you dress is an expression of your holiness, not vice versa. Holiness is who you are because of the blood of Jesus being sprinkled on your heart, not what you wear because of Paul or Peter.
Anyway, be blessed, may He continue to enlighten the eyes of your understanding to know the hope of His calling and the glory of His inheritence in the saints!

 

[WannaWitness]

Just because a woman wears pants and short hair (and my hair, which is shoulder-length, is hardly "short"), it doesn't mean she is any less "holy" than a woman who wears dresses all the time. I feel that women can look just as modest and feminine wearing pants as they can in dresses. The way I see it, everyone has different convictions. If any woman has been convicted by the Holy Spirit to wear only dresses, then she should stick by that -- but she should also be careful not to develop the attitude that she is better (or holier) than other women who do not share her exact convictions.

 

[Sorrowful Soul]

I don't wear pants or cut my hair and I don't think that I am more Holy than people who don't share my same beliefs. If you are convicted, go for it. But that's just me..

 

[pentecostalgirl0414]

I don't wear pants or cut my hair and I don't think that I am more Holy than people who don't share my same beliefs. If you are convicted, go for it. But that's just me..

I agree with what you are saying. My church is Holiness and we don't judge others. If a visitor comes throught the door in pants, shorts, whatever, the members are very welcoming and they are not judgmental. Often, the people keep coming back.

 

[SoaringEagle]

The Christian life isn't about Do's and Don'ts. Cans and can'ts. It's about Christ. Wearing dresses only and never cutting your hair IS NOT a sign of maturity. We don't go by "codes and laws" we go by the Voice of the Spirit and the Word. Not dress codes hygene codes. In the old testament, men wore skirts. So should men do that today? You are free to do or don't when it comes to this. If anyone seems to be contentious, we dont have to follow this custom, nor does any of the churches of God. This was a custom during this time, it's not a command. If you want to thats fine. But you don't have to. If you don't, don't walk around feeling guilty. If the LORD is dealing with some of the way you dress, HEAR HIM and yeild to Him. But there are two extremes. One ditch on each side of a road. One is dressing like they do on baywatch and mtv, the other is dressing like the little house on the praire. No offense to anyone. Some get convicted of dressing too much like strippers and those trying to draw attention to themselfs, and jump to the other extreme and dress like they did in the 1800's. There is a middle road and that road is the narrow road that leads to life. Find that road and walk it. Find your identity in Christ revealed in the New Testament, let those truths come alive to you, and walk in those truths. Let it change your heart, and dress as a child of God would. Don't conform to religion, in heaven there will be people of every nation and tongue, from many different backgrounds and walks of life. They are free to reflect their personality and be themself, while at the same time being conformed to the image of Christ. So be yourself, don't let man's religion be your master.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The principle of Christian living is that we are no longer bound to the Law of Moses.
Because most Christians are not Jewish but Gentile, they were never subject to the Law in the first place.
The rule was set in the first Jerusalem Council described in the Book of Acts, where Gentiles were not required to follow any laws other than to keep away from fornication and meat offered to idols.
There was no other requirement placed on Gentile Christians.
Therefore, many of the rules of the Holiness churches are rules that they have made up themselves, and are not supported by Scripture.
I suppose that if you want to continue to be accepted in your Holiness church you have to obey their rules, but the rules belong to that church and are not required of you by the Holy Spirit.

 

[onelamb]

Why is wearing pants-wearing mens clothes? A man would sure look silly in a pair of pants made for a woman. In the day the Bible was written-mens clothes consisted of a robe and belt-much more like dresses today than pants. I'm sorry, if you want to wear dresses only and not cut your hair then fine-but you have no scriptural cause to say that it somehow makes you holy or close to God.

 

[Sorrowful Soul]

I don't have a problem with my religion! I don't cut my hair or wear pants. Hey, if you don't agree, that is your choice! There is nothing to be sorry about. I hope that I am not coming across as rude. How do you know that people who don't wear pants or cut their hair don't have a spiritual cause? Everyone is different. Just like my reply is my opinion and yours is yours. Maybe I shouldn't post here anymore.. I am not making any sense... If you don't agree with it, that is fine, but I do, and i don't see anything wrong with that.
God bless ALL!

 

[pentecostalgirl0414]

Actually, both of those examples are in the Bible.

I Corinthians 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(and one would say, but pants do pertain to a woman today! Nope. The symbol on the girls restroom is wearing a dress. Anytime a silhouette is used for a woman, a majority of the time she is in a dress. Also, go up to a random person and give them a pen and a piece of paper. Ask them to draw a quick picture of a man and a woman, and they have 15 seconds. In this quick drawing, the woman is more likely than not to be wearing a dress and have long hair.)

There are not man's rules; these are God's rules.

That said, I will also say this. If you are going into a new dnomination, such as a holiness one, first you must make the inside holy. You cannot cover up the inside by just appearing in the holiness "standards" of dress. Also, you do what God convicts you of, not what man does.

Also, holiness standards differ from church to church. I used to go to a church where your holiness was determined by your sleeve length (long sleeves, full christian; 3/4 sleeves, 75% Christian, etc.). That is WRONG. In my church now we usually wear our sleeves no shorter than elbow length, but there are some people who do, and you know what? No one's condemning them or kicking them out or making them feel like sinners (or even believing that they are sinners. Sleeve length or pants or dresses or whatever is not the key to Heaven). God called us to be on the witness stand; not in the judgement seat.

I agree with what you are saying!! Very thoughtful post!!

 

[SoldOut4JC]

There comes across a thin line when you really take into depth the scriptures from Corinthians and today's world.

I do believe however, at the time of Paul, it was a cultural belief that women should not cut their hair or have on pants or makeup.

Today we've realized, Holiness is something that cannot be worn, it must be realized that it is abtained by our birth in Christ. Not by legalism (which is one problem I have with most Pentecostal churches).

The truth is, if you feel this is a conviction to you to not wear pants or cut your hair, then heed that conviction, I would rather for you to feel guilt-less than to suffer with it for not heeding it.

God bless!

PS: There's a difference between modesty and unmodesty. If you're not wearing belly shirts or anything that reveals a little bit too much "flesh", then really you're not unmodest... However, I do think that girls with long hair are beautiful. But that doesn't mean girls with short hair aren't (I just don't like the completely short hair that some girls have...)

 

[TwistrAndy]

I just want to say one thing.

Why is it that whenever holiness is brought up, people that don't subscribe to the doctrine get offended and almost criticize people for following it. Almost as to saying they are wrong.

I get tired of seeing people who believe in this (including me) criticized and falsley accused. Someone told me to "do what I want, but don't think I am closer to God".

First of all, find me one spot where someone who subscribed to the holiness doctrine said "I live closer to God, because I don't wear shorts, make-up, pants etc."

Here it's been the opposite, we said we WELCOME people to our church, we take them in, we don't turn them away.

I almost think an apology is in order for all the people who sit here and smacked us with the stereotype of "Holier than Thou" Attitudes. If you think all holiness people have those attitudes, you need to take your blinders off, because it's the exact opposite in alot of places.

Just watch what you say before you stereotype people.

Learn to know people as an individual instead of a group.

 

[onelamb]

It really is a thin line-but when people bring up "holiness" most often the nonpants wearers and the no hair cut gang-bring those two things up as somehow some kind of standard of what holiness is. Nothing could be further from the truth-holiness is a matter of heart and conduct-and if you can take it off and put it on like clothing-then your holiness is outward adorning. If you want to dress a certian way because you feel it brings you closer to the Lord then go for it-but don't wear it like some kind of medal that defines holiness for you.

 

[BillynJennifer]

Coming from an Apostolic Pentecostal Holiness background and being on the inside of some of the "gossipy" circles, I have heard, many times, "Can you believe she came in her with those Jezebel rings in her ears?" or "I can tell you right now, if he is thinking of switching his membership to this church, he had better have someone sew on about 4 more inches of fabric onto those sleeves." I'm not saying that is how each church is, but one bad apple leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth for the rest of the basket.

I do, also love to see a holiness woman for I know the dedication that it takes to dress holiness. I never had the convictions to dress holiness, for I only dressed that way to keep everyone happy. I'm not now convicted about the length of my sleeves nor the length of my pants (shorts or pants), within decent limits.

 

[Sorrowful Soul]

I just want to say one thing.

Why is it that whenever holiness is brought up, people that don't subscribe to the doctrine get offended and almost criticize people for following it. Almost as to saying they are wrong.

I get tired of seeing people who believe in this (including me) criticized and falsley accused. Someone told me to "do what I want, but don't think I am closer to God".

First of all, find me one spot where someone who subscribed to the holiness doctrine said "I live closer to God, because I don't wear shorts, make-up, pants etc."

Here it's been the opposite, we said we WELCOME people to our church, we take them in, we don't turn them away.

I almost think an apology is in order for all the people who sit here and smacked us with the stereotype of "Holier than Thou" Attitudes. If you think all holiness people have those attitudes, you need to take your blinders off, because it's the exact opposite in alot of places.

Just watch what you say before you stereotype people.

Learn to know people as an individual instead of a group.

Praise God for your reply! I agree with you 100%. Thanks for posting.

 

[I am saved15]

I just want to say one thing.

Why is it that whenever holiness is brought up, people that don't subscribe to the doctrine get offended and almost criticize people for following it. Almost as to saying they are wrong.

I get tired of seeing people who believe in this (including me) criticized and falsley accused. Someone told me to "do what I want, but don't think I am closer to God".

First of all, find me one spot where someone who subscribed to the holiness doctrine said "I live closer to God, because I don't wear shorts, make-up, pants etc."

Here it's been the opposite, we said we WELCOME people to our church, we take them in, we don't turn them away.

I almost think an apology is in order for all the people who sit here and smacked us with the stereotype of "Holier than Thou" Attitudes. If you think all holiness people have those attitudes, you need to take your blinders off, because it's the exact opposite in alot of places.

Just watch what you say before you stereotype people.

Learn to know people as an individual instead of a group.

Praise God!! I agree with you. I am Holiness as well. It seems like people like to slap a label on us that says we think of ourselves as holier than anyone else attitude. That is not true. We welcome all types of people in our church. No matter what you have on. Last time I checked, we were supposed to love one another and be out there witnessing to the lost. Not fighting over who disagree with holiness and who doesn't. Just a thought.
Please stop labeling us as some sort of a snob..

 

[onelamb]

It's not that we "disagree with holiness" it is that we don't define holiness the way you do--to you holiness is a way of dress. God wants a holy people-can you show scripturally were God defines holiness the way you do?
Is "holiness" doctrine that of outward adorning? Is holiness-to you-that which you wear? Perhaps we have a different view of holiness? I also have heard the rude and gossipy comments from so called "holiness" folk. Some of them-I'm sorry to say-believe that as long as they wear their hair a certian way, and dress a certian way then they are holy-is that what you believe?