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- Thread starter Sayre
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I post.there under an id of " recent convert" although I have been Orthodox for almost 9 years. It is a rather widespread forum with its good & bad aspects ( some might feel more negatively). A couple of Orthodox priests usually post there & there will be more information on Oriental Orthodoxy than one will find in CF. I think TAW is more level headed but if you navigate carefully through OC Net, you can find quality; most posters are ok but there a few embedded argumentative types.
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jckstraw72
Doin' that whole Orthodox thing
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I quit posting there. I found it to be very light on Orthodoxy and very heavy on personal opinions.
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Joseph Hazen
The Religious Loudmouth
I'd probably agree with jckstraw, with an added layer of extreme attention to minutiae. I post there sometimes though, because occasionally you can find some detailed info if you need it, and I really enjoy their Western Rite sub forum, and Lukaris is right about the greater OO participation. I get a negative vibe overall though. I think TAW is friendlier and with a greater community.
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jckstraw72
Doin' that whole Orthodox thing
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Orthodoxy through Patristic and Monastic Study is where it's at for serious and scholarly Orthodox conversation
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gurneyhalleck1
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Just drop the Alan Turing icon and you'll be better received in all forums!
Not a fan of computers?
It is honestly a part of my journey. I'm finding it very difficult to understand the church's position on sexuality. Even more difficult is dealing with the topic when questions aren't tolerated - that really gets on my goat.
I'm not having a go at you personally - you've been lovely towards me - it's just a bitter taste in my mouth. If I hear "Adam and Steve" one more time - another cheap throw away answer - I'm going to scream.
But if it offends you, I'll replace it with another photo so I can participate in your forum (I do know I am a guest).
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rusmeister
A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
- Dec 9, 2005
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Hey, Sayre,
I wonder what you mean when you say "questions aren't tolerated"? Do you mean at TAW?
I don't think there is any intolerance to inquirers or asking questions. I can see a problem, though, if "question" means "doubt, and refuse to listen to the answers of Orthodox Tradition".
I think asking honest questions is totally cool.
I wonder what you mean when you say "questions aren't tolerated"? Do you mean at TAW?
I don't think there is any intolerance to inquirers or asking questions. I can see a problem, though, if "question" means "doubt, and refuse to listen to the answers of Orthodox Tradition".
I think asking honest questions is totally cool.
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No. TAW has in general been very loving and patient with me. I've found much more intolerance in the protestantism I've been involved with in the past.
I don't want to isolate who or what or when - I don't think that is important.
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gurneyhalleck1
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gurneyhalleck1
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Hey Sayre,
I think you're lovely as well, and I was just ragging on you about the icon, not seriously mocking you or anything. Sorry if I came off harsh. I'm a big kidder. I normally am not a fan of homosexuality, so no, he wouldn't be my first choice!
When it comes to "sexuality," I think we have to just put things in perspective and think about things carefully without jumping to conclusions. And I'm NOT saying you've done that. You seem like a really caring person who is listening to the beckoning of the Holy Spirit, wanting to find God in sincerity, but also trying to come to terms with moral principles and ethics, to do what you think is the right thing. Nothing wrong with having ethics, trying to be true to convictions, and wanting to make sure you get things right in finding the right Church!
I can assure you, if you're looking for the TRUE Church, look no further--you've found her. I personally went through decades of Catholicism with questions, eyebrow raising, discomfort, and a nagging feeling that I'm in the wrong spot. I went through Anglicanism for about 7 years off and on and felt the same way. Orthodoxy is finally my landing spot.
When it comes to "sexuality," as you put it, I'm not sure I like the term. It somehow implies we have a default "esse" about us. It denotes a type of programming that is unavoidable, and a natural God-given state of who we are.
Orthodoxy sees us properly through the right prism---WE'RE FALLEN. We're fallen, sister. We've lost our way. In the Garden, we fell. We are not supposed to be in the state we're in. We shouldn't be judgmental, cruel, unforgiving, lustful, boastful, drunks, addicts, ill-mannered, covetous, and so many other bad things. We were meant for divinity.
Seeing things through that proper perspective, we know that we are lost sheep with programming that has been inflicted with the virus of sin. Like a computer, we were programmed to do a job---being like God, but when the virus and malware of sin entered the harddrive, we are not making the calculations and running the programs properly. Some work, some don't properly.
Christ the Victor vanquished death. Death swallowed a man, and encountered a Living God. Jesus ransomed us from death. He injected divinity back into us and in baptism and chrismation we encounter our true selves. We receive patches to fix our viruses. We receive a system scan that helps get our hard drives back on track. The Eucharist is the ULTIMATE patch and virus-killer, but also confession, prayer, devotion to the saints, the liturgy, sacraments, icons, the wisdom of the Fathers and theologians of the Church, and each other all come together to fight the disease of sin.
Same-sex attraction isn't "sexuality." It is an aspect of our fallen nature. Whereas one man who is "straight" is addicted to inappropriate content, another man might be attracted to other men. Both ARE SIN. They are not natural, God-given, but rather byproducts of a nature we weren't meant to enter into. Same-sex attraction is sin. It goes against the natural law given by the Creator. But by the same token, we Orthodox Christians don't somehow say it's not ok for a man to struggle with SSA, yet it's perfectly cool for a man to look at inappropriate content and touch, or for a man to get drunk and beat his wife, or for a man to use drugs, or for a "straight" man to commit adultery, or for a man to abuse animals, or for a politician to lie, cheat, and steal. It's not ok to abort a baby, or to cheat on taxes. Sin is sin. SSA is a brutal struggle, but not a God-made blessing. We must sympathize with how brutal a struggle it is, but not buckle to modernity's message that it's not only inescapable and natural, but beautiful and laudable as a lifestyle either.
Divorce is also something that, as Rus has pointed out frequently (and correctly!) is totally out of hand, and that even Orthodox clergy are a bit too fast to accept.
So I guess I'd tell you that if you're looking for Orthodoxy to endorse the SSA agenda, you'll have to go elsewhere. They won't. But if you have a sympathy for their struggle and yet a willingness to acknowledge the lifestyle as a sin and pray for these good folks, then Orthodoxy is for you.
Orthodoxy properly doesn't look at people through the eyes of their gonads. We don't use the term "sexuality" and define people through their use of genitals. We have to look at the entire person and try to heal sin. We have to not tolerate sins, but also quickly look at OURSELVES and realize that we're the 'chief sinners.'
Orthodoxy is tough, but HIGHLY compassionate imho.
Investigating religion isn't easy. We journey into something that should MOLD US. We can't religion shop, and we can't look at religions that rubber stamp our own beliefs. Oddly enough, as a Roman Catholic, I was 100% opposed to divorce for just about any reason save adultery and abuse. Orthodoxy is a bit too liberal on the topic for my taste even to this day. I find the word "divorce" annoying and I just hate it. I think the Lord made it VERY clear that divorce is to be ultra rare and given in the most extreme and uncommon of circumstances, yet the Orthodox Church is pretty free in granting them. So, I had to bite my tongue, consider they know better than me, and just be patient, etc. When I came to Orthodoxy, I couldn't grasp why we had to stand the whole time, why the liturgy had to be almost two hours long when any other church is half that, why we have to "again and again let us pray" the same things when one time seemed sufficient? At first I thought the East was just being overly petty about the filioque. I also thought Orthodoxy wasn't into the Passion of Christ enough and too enamored with the Resurrection event. I could go on.....I also was VERY pro-evolution. I read a lot of things the clergy and laity had to say about evolution (anti) and it bugged me to no end.
But after I explored deeply, looked into the theological and practical and patristic reasons for these things that annoyed me, I realized that I was wrong, not the Orthodox Church!
We have to be open to be conformed to Christ and going into uncomfortable territory, lands we're not accustomed to, theologically speaking.
keep an open mind, an open heart, and be prepared to have to recalibrate some opinions and verbiage! Be open to the idea that secular society has messed with your lexicon and mindset. It messed with mine!
Hey, gotta run. Blessings sister! keep up the exploration!
I think you're lovely as well, and I was just ragging on you about the icon, not seriously mocking you or anything. Sorry if I came off harsh. I'm a big kidder. I normally am not a fan of homosexuality, so no, he wouldn't be my first choice!
When it comes to "sexuality," I think we have to just put things in perspective and think about things carefully without jumping to conclusions. And I'm NOT saying you've done that. You seem like a really caring person who is listening to the beckoning of the Holy Spirit, wanting to find God in sincerity, but also trying to come to terms with moral principles and ethics, to do what you think is the right thing. Nothing wrong with having ethics, trying to be true to convictions, and wanting to make sure you get things right in finding the right Church!
I can assure you, if you're looking for the TRUE Church, look no further--you've found her. I personally went through decades of Catholicism with questions, eyebrow raising, discomfort, and a nagging feeling that I'm in the wrong spot. I went through Anglicanism for about 7 years off and on and felt the same way. Orthodoxy is finally my landing spot.
When it comes to "sexuality," as you put it, I'm not sure I like the term. It somehow implies we have a default "esse" about us. It denotes a type of programming that is unavoidable, and a natural God-given state of who we are.
Orthodoxy sees us properly through the right prism---WE'RE FALLEN. We're fallen, sister. We've lost our way. In the Garden, we fell. We are not supposed to be in the state we're in. We shouldn't be judgmental, cruel, unforgiving, lustful, boastful, drunks, addicts, ill-mannered, covetous, and so many other bad things. We were meant for divinity.
Seeing things through that proper perspective, we know that we are lost sheep with programming that has been inflicted with the virus of sin. Like a computer, we were programmed to do a job---being like God, but when the virus and malware of sin entered the harddrive, we are not making the calculations and running the programs properly. Some work, some don't properly.
Christ the Victor vanquished death. Death swallowed a man, and encountered a Living God. Jesus ransomed us from death. He injected divinity back into us and in baptism and chrismation we encounter our true selves. We receive patches to fix our viruses. We receive a system scan that helps get our hard drives back on track. The Eucharist is the ULTIMATE patch and virus-killer, but also confession, prayer, devotion to the saints, the liturgy, sacraments, icons, the wisdom of the Fathers and theologians of the Church, and each other all come together to fight the disease of sin.
Same-sex attraction isn't "sexuality." It is an aspect of our fallen nature. Whereas one man who is "straight" is addicted to inappropriate content, another man might be attracted to other men. Both ARE SIN. They are not natural, God-given, but rather byproducts of a nature we weren't meant to enter into. Same-sex attraction is sin. It goes against the natural law given by the Creator. But by the same token, we Orthodox Christians don't somehow say it's not ok for a man to struggle with SSA, yet it's perfectly cool for a man to look at inappropriate content and touch, or for a man to get drunk and beat his wife, or for a man to use drugs, or for a "straight" man to commit adultery, or for a man to abuse animals, or for a politician to lie, cheat, and steal. It's not ok to abort a baby, or to cheat on taxes. Sin is sin. SSA is a brutal struggle, but not a God-made blessing. We must sympathize with how brutal a struggle it is, but not buckle to modernity's message that it's not only inescapable and natural, but beautiful and laudable as a lifestyle either.
Divorce is also something that, as Rus has pointed out frequently (and correctly!) is totally out of hand, and that even Orthodox clergy are a bit too fast to accept.
So I guess I'd tell you that if you're looking for Orthodoxy to endorse the SSA agenda, you'll have to go elsewhere. They won't. But if you have a sympathy for their struggle and yet a willingness to acknowledge the lifestyle as a sin and pray for these good folks, then Orthodoxy is for you.
Orthodoxy properly doesn't look at people through the eyes of their gonads. We don't use the term "sexuality" and define people through their use of genitals. We have to look at the entire person and try to heal sin. We have to not tolerate sins, but also quickly look at OURSELVES and realize that we're the 'chief sinners.'
Orthodoxy is tough, but HIGHLY compassionate imho.
Investigating religion isn't easy. We journey into something that should MOLD US. We can't religion shop, and we can't look at religions that rubber stamp our own beliefs. Oddly enough, as a Roman Catholic, I was 100% opposed to divorce for just about any reason save adultery and abuse. Orthodoxy is a bit too liberal on the topic for my taste even to this day. I find the word "divorce" annoying and I just hate it. I think the Lord made it VERY clear that divorce is to be ultra rare and given in the most extreme and uncommon of circumstances, yet the Orthodox Church is pretty free in granting them. So, I had to bite my tongue, consider they know better than me, and just be patient, etc. When I came to Orthodoxy, I couldn't grasp why we had to stand the whole time, why the liturgy had to be almost two hours long when any other church is half that, why we have to "again and again let us pray" the same things when one time seemed sufficient? At first I thought the East was just being overly petty about the filioque. I also thought Orthodoxy wasn't into the Passion of Christ enough and too enamored with the Resurrection event. I could go on.....I also was VERY pro-evolution. I read a lot of things the clergy and laity had to say about evolution (anti) and it bugged me to no end.
But after I explored deeply, looked into the theological and practical and patristic reasons for these things that annoyed me, I realized that I was wrong, not the Orthodox Church!
We have to be open to be conformed to Christ and going into uncomfortable territory, lands we're not accustomed to, theologically speaking.
keep an open mind, an open heart, and be prepared to have to recalibrate some opinions and verbiage! Be open to the idea that secular society has messed with your lexicon and mindset. It messed with mine!
Hey, gotta run. Blessings sister! keep up the exploration!
Not a fan of computers?
It is honestly a part of my journey. I'm finding it very difficult to understand the church's position on sexuality. Even more difficult is dealing with the topic when questions aren't tolerated - that really gets on my goat.
I'm not having a go at you personally - you've been lovely towards me - it's just a bitter taste in my mouth. If I hear "Adam and Steve" one more time - another cheap throw away answer - I'm going to scream.
But if it offends you, I'll replace it with another photo so I can participate in your forum (I do know I am a guest).
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nestoj
Senior Member
Lord moves in misterious ways. Turing payed dearly for his sins, may God have mercy on him, and who's to say mine or anyone elses are any lighter. I'm ok with icons of sinners, that's my group of people at the moment. As a matter of fact, I too am sporting an icon of a sinner.
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Augustinosia
Orthodox Christian
I do, although I lurk more often than post these days. I find TAW to be kinder and more Orthodoxically on-track without extremes of 'personalities' or viewpoints.
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Dorothea
One of God's handmaidens
- Jul 10, 2007
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I've scrolled through that forum once and then other times when googling stuff, it directed me to a discussion thread in there. Not enough interest for me to have joined there, though.
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- Nov 29, 2005
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I've been a member there from its very very early days
To my mind it's not the Site it was . Yes I still post occasionally , but not often .
Indeed my GodPapa is also a member - has been since its inception , but he prefers that I don't post - and I do respect my GodPapa's wishes
To my mind it's not the Site it was . Yes I still post occasionally , but not often .
Indeed my GodPapa is also a member - has been since its inception , but he prefers that I don't post - and I do respect my GodPapa's wishes
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Philothei
Love never fails
I agree with the general sentiment that OC.com is not for everyone
I enjoy TAW for the diversity for sure of EO juristictions and the tolerance of its expression. I can post here and get many views on a subject maybe not as deep but for sure a wide spectrum
Welcome Sayre
I enjoy TAW for the diversity for sure of EO juristictions and the tolerance of its expression. I can post here and get many views on a subject maybe not as deep but for sure a wide spectrum
Welcome Sayre
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The only reason I go on oc.net these days is to search for some of the info on old threads. I don't post there anymore, though I did a brief stint as a moderator there years ago.
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