Orthodox position on homosexuality?

[Dominus Fidelis]

"Wise temperance of the stomach is a door to all the virtues. Restrain the stomach, and you will enter Paradise. But if you please and pamper your stomach, you will hurl yourself over the precipice of bodily impurity, into the fire of wrath and fury, you will coarsen and darken your mind, and in this way you will ruin your powers of attention and self-control, your sobriety and vigilance." --The Arena

I could gain a lot (or rather lose alot) by trying to do better in this area...

What is the Arena, anyway?

 

[Monica child of God 1]

What is the Arena, anyway?

Here's a description. I have not read it yet but I came across that quote in an essay and it made a deep impression on me. I would like to read the full work.

M.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I don't want to derail the thread too much but I read a great booklet during Lent called "the significance of Orthodox fasting" or something like that. It went from OT to NT outlining the basic necessity of fasting and the disastrous results to our own soul and to society of failing to do so. I can't remember the full name of it or the author and it is at home.

M.

 

[MariaRegina]

Masturbation can lead to severe problems with intimacy some of those problems resulting in confusion over sexual orientation. That's why the Catholic Church considers it a mortal sin. It is a very destructive sin, people just do not realize it.


Michelle

This is true in the Orthodox Church as well. On a retreat I went to, the Orthodox Priest said that masturbation is like adultery in that it comes in between the husband and wife like a prostitute.

Taken from that viewpoint - it is truly ugly and very self-centered.

Perhaps that is why our society is so self-centered because we want immediate gratification? Then we no longer need our spouse and finally it is then easier to obtain a divorce.

Can I be bold to say that this single solitary sin might be one cause of the breakdown in marriage?

 

[ExOrienteLux]

You wouldn't think that all leads back to eating too much bread would you?

Nah. If your last word had been 'meat', though, I'd agree wholeheartedly.

And this is a very interesting and informative thread in general.

+IC XC NIKA+
-Philip.

 

[Miss Shelby]

This is true in the Orthodox Church as well. On a retreat I went to, the Orthodox Priest said that masturbation is like adultery in that it comes in between the husband and wife like a prostitute.

Taken from that viewpoint - it is truly ugly and very self-centered.

Perhaps that is why our society is so self-centered because we want immediate gratification? Then we no longer need our spouse and finally it is then easier to obtain a divorce.

Can I be bold to say that this single solitary sin might be one cause of the breakdown in marriage?

I happened to catch a movie on a one of the b movie stations. I think it was Lifetime. It was about inappropriate content addiction. And one women in the movie said that her husband was so addicted to the inappropriate content that he would rather touch than have relations with her, and that it ruined there marriage. So I am sure you might be onto something there. I think it's also possible that women can have the same addictions, it just isn't ask talked about as with men. Yes, I agree, a very detrimental and ugly sin. And the way society acts like it's okay is what makes it even deadlier.

Michelle

 

[MariaRegina]

I happened to catch a movie on a one of the b movie stations. I think it was Lifetime. It was about inappropriate content addiction. And one women in the movie said that her husband was so addicted to the inappropriate content that he would rather touch than have relations with her, and that it ruined there marriage. So I am sure you might be onto something there. I think it's also possible that women can have the same addictions, it just isn't ask talked about as with men. Yes, I agree, a very detrimental and ugly sin. And the way society acts like it's okay is what makes it even deadlier.

Michelle

It is especially bad when Planned Parenthood teaches it as normal behavior to young children when they visit the schools.

 

[Matrona]

And one women in the movie said that her husband was so addicted to the inappropriate content that he would rather touch than have relations with her, and that it ruined there marriage.

That's horrible!

 

[rhyddid_rose]

To Life Immortal

I have heard people say that if gay people can get married, it will affect their marriage. I dont mean to be difficult, but I just cant see how would that be. If my neighbours decide to divorce, why should I get one?

Aren't you ultimately responsible for the state of your marriages?

As stated elsewhere, I dont think churches should be forced to recognise something that is against the tenets of their beliefs. On the other hand, I believe gays should have some of the same protections, eg. inheritance, medical decisions, etc. that heterosexual couples do.

Personally, I tire of this subject. Adults should be able to come up with a viable solution by now. I am annoyed with both sides of this question; they are playing mind games with the people.

Peace and Long Life


Babochka

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I guarantee you this. If gay marriages are accepted in secular America, in a generation or two tops the Catholic and Orthodox Churches (and any other Christian Church that does not allow Gay Marriages) will be dubbed as hateful by the society and the Church will endure great persecution. It IS our business how our country defines marriage. I say that the State should get out of the business of recongising marriages period and just do civil unions. If you are only "united" by a justice of the piece, you can call it what you want, but the state certificate will just say "United" and not married. Our government has long past proven itself unworthy of having say in question of marriage. This is the Church's business.

But, this will never happen, so in the meantime, no, I do not support gay marriage in the USA because it is a gross abuse of the word. I too am tired of this.

John

 

[MariaRegina]

I guarantee you this. If gay marriages are accepted in secular America, in a generation or two tops the Catholic and Orthodox Churches (and any other Christian Church that does not allow Gay Marriages) will be dubbed as hateful by the society and the Church will endure great persecution. It IS our business how our country defines marriage. I say that the State should get out of the business of recongising marriages period and just do civil unions. If you are only "united" by a justice of the piece, you can call it what you want, but the state certificate will just say "United" and not married. Our government has long past proven itself unworthy of having say in question of marriage. This is the Church's business.

But, this will never happen, so in the meantime, no, I do not support gay marriage in the USA because it is a gross abuse of the word. I too am tired of this.

John

Interesting - but there may be pitfalls involved here ....

In some countries, there is first a civil union and then the religious ceremony. So the couple who wants to be MARRIED in a church has to go through two ceremonies. Doesn't Mexico do this?

However, there is a serious problem with this whole idea of a civil union. Gay couples who want to have a ceremony at a local inn or resort could pose a problem for the innkeeper who is Catholic, Orthodox, or a staunch Protestant who feels that planning and playing a part in that "civil union" would be against his or her personal religious beliefs.

Not only churches will face persecution, but local proprietors already are facing discrimination lawsuits. Their livelihoods are at stake. Should innkeepers be forced to sell their business just to satisfy the self-gratifications of a few gays who are in the minority? These gays are very self-centered and selfish.

Look at this reprehensible news story ... I cannot find the url but maybe you can find the full story:

Lesbians target innkeeper over same-sex 'wedding'
File complaint against Catholic family for reluctance to host civil union service

June 30, 2005
5:00 p.m. Eastern


© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

NOTE: This couple is from the State of Vermont, USA, and their large family with children live at the Inn property.

 

[Miss Shelby]

That's horrible!

Yeah, it was pretty eye opening. Can you imagine the rejection she felt?

Michelle

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Interesting - but there may be pitfalls involved here ....

In some countries, there is first a civil union and then the religious ceremony. So the couple who wants to be MARRIED in a church has to go through two ceremonies. Doesn't Mexico do this?

Good point, but I'm only talking about the US. What you talk about is true though in most countries, if not all, that I've been to. Romania, Spain and France to name some that I am sure of. There is no "by the invested in me by the [name of country]. I think it is to the Church's disadvantage to rely on the Government for validity in marriage. But, actually, it's always been this way in the Church ever since the first centuries and our situation here in the States is actually abnormal compared to most "Christian" countries past and present.

However, there is a serious problem with this whole idea of a civil union. Gay couples who want to have a ceremony at a local inn or resort could pose a problem for the innkeeper who is Catholic, Orthodox, or a staunch Protestant who feels that planning and playing a part in that "civil union" would be against his or her personal religious beliefs.

Not only churches will face persecution, but local proprietors already are facing discrimination lawsuits. Their livelihoods are at stake. Should innkeepers be forced to sell their business just to satisfy the self-gratifications of a few gays who are in the minority? These gays are very self-centered and selfish.

Look at this reprehensible news story ... I cannot find the url but maybe you can find the full story:

Lesbians target innkeeper over same-sex 'wedding'
File complaint against Catholic family for reluctance to host civil union service

June 30, 2005
5:00 p.m. Eastern

Good points. I suppose I am just fed up with the government. It should never be looked to to be an ally in anything. In the long run it only serves to weaken the Church's integrity because... well.. the State has none to speak of. Sorry for my pessimism. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me.

But, I recognize anyhow that you are not trying to pander to the State... you are actually working to fight against the State's tendancy towards liberalization. I've just given up on them. I just want to see the state out of all of it, period. But, there's nothing practical about that and, push come to shove, it doesn't even make sense. So you are actually correct. In the long run (and most realistically) Gay marriage just needs to be fought against. That's the only hope we have in avoiding future, unnecessary, persecution against the Church's values.

John
PS: How did you get that news story headline and all the resource info if you can't find the actual body of the news story?

 

[MariaRegina]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45073

Lesbians target innkeeper over same-sex 'wedding'

I couldn't locate the story because it was already in the archives of WorldNetDaily.

Just located it.

 

[Padraig]

Could you expand on this?



You hooked me.. but left me hanging

Would that I could do it justice. Have you read The Sacrament of Love by Paul Evdokimov? Quite an interesting read where he investigates the nature of Man as man-woman. Each sex has its own charisms, its own calling or vocation by their very nature. Unfortunately, I'm tired, and out of town to boot. But if you can get your hands on this book. It is amazing.

Sorry I left you hanging. Just can't seem to follow through at times