Open letter to the church from millennial pastor - this is why we are leaving

[LightLoveHope]

People Don't Need Church
They Need New Birth
People Don't Need Behavior Reform
They Need Christ Jesus
People Don't Need To Become Good
They need to Get Alive
People Don't Need To Act Better
They Need Resurrection

It is interesting you have negatives against
Behaviour reform, becoming Good, acting better

Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.....
Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God 3 John 1:11
Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness 2 Tim 2:19
But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil Heb 5:14

Behaviour matters, it is part of who we are.

 

[Jermayn]

A former church attendee and pastor explains why she is leaving the church:

"I remember when I was serving as a pastor receiving emails, flyers and promotions for “solutions” to the issue of why millennials are leaving the church.

Truth be told, I didn’t realize I was actually a millennial until recently. (Apparently I am in the last year that they include millennials. And, ironically, I find myself joining them on this subject)

I, too, have left the church, but have not left my faith….

I loved church as a kid. It was my social outlet, my crowd, my people – faith and spirituality were something I identified with at an early age. But, with each generation, comes new perspectives and new ways of thinking.

One of the struggles many millennials have with organized religion in general is the inability of the older generations to adapt, change, or entertain new ideas and new ways of thinking. This is an issue each generation bumps up against, but this generation and this subject don’t seem to be finding a middle ground.

As a millennial, life-long church attendee and former pastor, I decided to write an open letter to the church, with the main reasons I decided to walk out of church doors. (And why many other millennials are doing the same).

Dear church,

You have asked why so many millennials are leaving your walls and refusing to come back. As one who has served, pastored and attended church my entire life, you may be surprised to learn that it isn’t just the “flaky” Christians who are leaving. Many leaders like myself are leaving too. And here’s why:

1. We don’t like hypocrisy. I know, I know, a lot of you may wrinkle your noses when I say this – or scoff and say, “maybe other Christians, but not me”. Well friends, I’ve attended, led and pastored in more than one church and in multiple denominations. And, let me tell you, there’s a constant theme. Although, in my experience it seems to be more evident in the evangelical groups, it is a steady theme none the less. An example would be: preachers and sermons demonizing pornography and any use of it. Making it appear that holy people (such as themselves) would never struggle with something like that. Especially never admit to it from the pulpit. Meanwhile, statistics show that over 50% of pastors view porn on a regular basis. Or, another example: people who lead mission trips, help the homeless, lead Bible studies and express a large outward appearance of “godliness” – yet, at home, where no one is watching, they neglect their spouses, are angry and controlling with their children and overall treat their family with much less respect and honor as they do the outside world they are “serving”.
2. We don’t think that loving your neighbor as yourself should come with a ton of conditions. Again, I can hear the argument against this statement but, hear me out. I was respected when I loved my Christian peers, pew mates and bible study companions who were like myself. I celebrated their families, their marriages, their accomplishments. But, when my neighbor didn’t attend my church, was LGBTQ or held a different faith, I was not supposed to attend their weddings, rejoice when they had or adopted children or celebrate their accomplishments (because clearly it was all the devil’s handy work). I was also expected to not vote in favor of these neighbors having the same rights as myself; such as rights to marry, have tax benefits and create a family or practice their faith publicly. Not only is this not loving my neighbors as myself – it’s hypocrisy at its finest.
3. We looked at history. History has this tendency to repeat itself. It doesn’t take long to pull back a few hundred years of history to see a nasty pattern throughout Westernized Christianity. Such as, the vast majority of slavery and racism was endorsed from pulpits. During the civil war, Christian pamphlets were passed to the confederates from churches and religious leaders in their support of God’s “holy war” – ie: the right to own slaves (Stout, Henry S.). Because, after all, slavery is endorsed by scripture. Another example, is how women’s rights were significantly hindered inside of the church and were fought against intensely (and still are) by many Christian leaders. Because, again, scripture supports the silence of women (if you want to interpret it that way). A pattern of oppression, bigotry and an overarching theme of one group holding all of the power, is nauseating.
4. We struggle with inequality. We have experienced a lot of diversity. And we believe that diversity is GOOD. We struggle with our LGBTQ brothers and sisters not being allowed to serve or have their families be welcome in church communities. We struggle with the continual lack of diversity in leadership: with women, people of color and LGBTQ people. (If you don’t believe this to be an issue, just look at who is at the top of most Christian churches and communities). And, many times if a woman does find herself at the top, she is paid significantly less than a man would be in her position. The list of spiritually gifted women, LGBTQ people, and people of color that the church has pushed out is truly a tragedy.
5. We have a hard time signing up for the idea that everyone we know who doesn’t claim our faith will be set on fire for eternity. If you’ve grown up in church, this concept seems super easy to embrace. Of course, your beloved grandma who is a universalist will burn in hell forever. Of course, your best friend at work who is an atheist will be tortured for eternity. Of course, your aunt who is a faithful Buddhist will be rejected by God and sent to be burned. This talk is so normalized for many millennials as children. But, once we grew up and really thought about what we were believing, the harder it was for us to reconcile that with the loving God we know. The concept of eternal torment is easy to embrace until it’s your grandma. Your parent. Your child. Your best friend. All of the sudden the idea of a forever place of torture doesn’t fit that well.
6. We look at scripture differently. A lot of millennials were told “because the Bible says” so much that we actually grew up and decided to read it for ourselves. We read. We studied. We wrestled. We researched. And we realized that the Bible isn’t as clear as we were taught. We learned that there are many conflictions. That there is context involved. People involved. Stories involved. We learned that the Bible is complex, beautiful and sacred. And that it’s okay to not know or understand all of it. That it’s okay to disagree with what we were taught (and even disagree with eachother) – and that’s okay.
7. We like authentic community. This is a big one. Many of us grew up attending home group, youth group, life groups, etc – whatever you want to call it. We invested time and energy into relationships, hoping to cultivate genuine connection (beyond just the idea that we attend church together). And, some of those relationships stuck. But, many of them didn’t. Many of these communities we found to be unsafe. Where we couldn’t be our true selves without being judged. We couldn’t express differing opinions (on faith, politics, culture) without being quickly told why we were wrong. We couldn’t go through life’s [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ty circumstances and just BE MAD. OR BE SAD. OR BE HUMAN. We felt expected to constantly be “okay”. And, truthfully, it’s exhausting. Because a lot of us weren’t okay. A lot of us had childhood trauma, failing marriages, troubled kids, a spouse who was gay, addictions to alcohol, pornography and a lot of stuff that is pretty darn heavy. And yet, we felt like couldn’t be real about any of it – because when we were real, we were shamed. Or attempted to be “fixed”, “healed” or “delivered”. Many of us have found that we can cultivate and thrive in real community outside of church. And, we find it to be much healthier for us spiritually and for our families.

In closing, I will say that I have loved the church. I love the people. I love my personal history inside it’s walls. But, as I’ve grown, I have had to make some difficult decisions regarding what is healthy for me and my family.

For myself personally, these issues were what caused me to draw the line.

I now find church to be inside my home; a space where everyone is welcome. I find that I worship by loving my children well and find prayer in the breaths and inside my heart. I find that I’m pastoring others well out here in the wilderness. As a family, we find community and love wherever we are and whoever we are with.

I believe and know Spirit to be everywhere. It is all present and ever seeking. When the church embraces this idea too, you may see some of us return. Until then, we believe we are free to follow where we need to be and free to allow others to do the same.

Grace and peace,

Anna"

An open letter to the church from a millennial – this is why we are leaving

What are your thoughts on this?

Issues with this person's list.

1. The Church = The Body of Christ. She openly trash talks the body of Christ while glorifying the "freedom" she's attained from leaving it. This is a great way to affirm non-believers beliefs that the Church is a den of hypocrites while also ensuring they stay as far away from Jesus, our only hope of salvation, as they can forever.

2. A female pastoring a church. God's word is clear on the criteria for becoming a pastor. Anyone who has a problem with it can take it up with God, because it's his requirement.

3. Not only preaches that people can live in sin by practicing homosexuality, but exalts it by advocating people who practice it be put into leadership positions within the church. Again, anyone who has a problem with this can take it up with God if you think he should have consulted you before determining what is and isn't sin.

4. Preaches it's OK to live in sin, as long as you love your neighbor you'll be saved. This is a common belief these days. It basically boils down to "You can work your way into Heaven". On top of preaching that we can bypass Jesus with good works, she also twists the biblical meaning of works to "whatever makes me feel good and virtuous". Without Jesus, you're lost. This is one of the very first and most basic concepts a Christian should understand.

5. Doesn't like hypocrisy. Teaches hypocrisy while pointing out all the struggles and faults of church leaders. Also teaches we should accept sin in the church with open arms, then leaves the church because some church members struggle with sin.

6. Preaches multiple paths to salvation by promoting the worship of false gods, and that there is no consequence for sin, which is essentially saying God is not just.

7. Says it's OK to disagree with one another, then leaves the Church because people disagree with her.

8. Likes authentic community, leaves the largest and most authentic family on earth.


I don't know how this person's walk with Christ started out, but it's obvious it ended far, far away from the truth. Honestly, this person sounds like a political activist that somehow ended up pastoring a church and it's far better they are no longer behind a pulpit leading people down the path to destruction. I pray their eyes are opened to the truth, for their own good and so they stop misleading others.

 

[Halbhh]

A former church attendee and pastor explains why she is leaving the church:

"I remember when I was serving as a pastor receiving emails, flyers and promotions for “solutions” to the issue of why millennials are leaving the church.

Truth be told, I didn’t realize I was actually a millennial until recently. (Apparently I am in the last year that they include millennials. And, ironically, I find myself joining them on this subject)

I, too, have left the church, but have not left my faith….

I loved church as a kid. It was my social outlet, my crowd, my people – faith and spirituality were something I identified with at an early age. But, with each generation, comes new perspectives and new ways of thinking.

One of the struggles many millennials have with organized religion in general is the inability of the older generations to adapt, change, or entertain new ideas and new ways of thinking. This is an issue each generation bumps up against, but this generation and this subject don’t seem to be finding a middle ground.

As a millennial, life-long church attendee and former pastor, I decided to write an open letter to the church, with the main reasons I decided to walk out of church doors. (And why many other millennials are doing the same).

Dear church,

You have asked why so many millennials are leaving your walls and refusing to come back. As one who has served, pastored and attended church my entire life, you may be surprised to learn that it isn’t just the “flaky” Christians who are leaving. Many leaders like myself are leaving too. And here’s why:

1. We don’t like hypocrisy. I know, I know, a lot of you may wrinkle your noses when I say this – or scoff and say, “maybe other Christians, but not me”. Well friends, I’ve attended, led and pastored in more than one church and in multiple denominations. And, let me tell you, there’s a constant theme. Although, in my experience it seems to be more evident in the evangelical groups, it is a steady theme none the less. An example would be: preachers and sermons demonizing pornography and any use of it. Making it appear that holy people (such as themselves) would never struggle with something like that. Especially never admit to it from the pulpit. Meanwhile, statistics show that over 50% of pastors view porn on a regular basis. Or, another example: people who lead mission trips, help the homeless, lead Bible studies and express a large outward appearance of “godliness” – yet, at home, where no one is watching, they neglect their spouses, are angry and controlling with their children and overall treat their family with much less respect and honor as they do the outside world they are “serving”.
2. We don’t think that loving your neighbor as yourself should come with a ton of conditions. Again, I can hear the argument against this statement but, hear me out. I was respected when I loved my Christian peers, pew mates and bible study companions who were like myself. I celebrated their families, their marriages, their accomplishments. But, when my neighbor didn’t attend my church, was LGBTQ or held a different faith, I was not supposed to attend their weddings, rejoice when they had or adopted children or celebrate their accomplishments (because clearly it was all the devil’s handy work). I was also expected to not vote in favor of these neighbors having the same rights as myself; such as rights to marry, have tax benefits and create a family or practice their faith publicly. Not only is this not loving my neighbors as myself – it’s hypocrisy at its finest.
3. We looked at history. History has this tendency to repeat itself. It doesn’t take long to pull back a few hundred years of history to see a nasty pattern throughout Westernized Christianity. Such as, the vast majority of slavery and racism was endorsed from pulpits. During the civil war, Christian pamphlets were passed to the confederates from churches and religious leaders in their support of God’s “holy war” – ie: the right to own slaves (Stout, Henry S.). Because, after all, slavery is endorsed by scripture. Another example, is how women’s rights were significantly hindered inside of the church and were fought against intensely (and still are) by many Christian leaders. Because, again, scripture supports the silence of women (if you want to interpret it that way). A pattern of oppression, bigotry and an overarching theme of one group holding all of the power, is nauseating.
4. We struggle with inequality. We have experienced a lot of diversity. And we believe that diversity is GOOD. We struggle with our LGBTQ brothers and sisters not being allowed to serve or have their families be welcome in church communities. We struggle with the continual lack of diversity in leadership: with women, people of color and LGBTQ people. (If you don’t believe this to be an issue, just look at who is at the top of most Christian churches and communities). And, many times if a woman does find herself at the top, she is paid significantly less than a man would be in her position. The list of spiritually gifted women, LGBTQ people, and people of color that the church has pushed out is truly a tragedy.
5. We have a hard time signing up for the idea that everyone we know who doesn’t claim our faith will be set on fire for eternity. If you’ve grown up in church, this concept seems super easy to embrace. Of course, your beloved grandma who is a universalist will burn in hell forever. Of course, your best friend at work who is an atheist will be tortured for eternity. Of course, your aunt who is a faithful Buddhist will be rejected by God and sent to be burned. This talk is so normalized for many millennials as children. But, once we grew up and really thought about what we were believing, the harder it was for us to reconcile that with the loving God we know. The concept of eternal torment is easy to embrace until it’s your grandma. Your parent. Your child. Your best friend. All of the sudden the idea of a forever place of torture doesn’t fit that well.
6. We look at scripture differently. A lot of millennials were told “because the Bible says” so much that we actually grew up and decided to read it for ourselves. We read. We studied. We wrestled. We researched. And we realized that the Bible isn’t as clear as we were taught. We learned that there are many conflictions. That there is context involved. People involved. Stories involved. We learned that the Bible is complex, beautiful and sacred. And that it’s okay to not know or understand all of it. That it’s okay to disagree with what we were taught (and even disagree with eachother) – and that’s okay.
7. We like authentic community. This is a big one. Many of us grew up attending home group, youth group, life groups, etc – whatever you want to call it. We invested time and energy into relationships, hoping to cultivate genuine connection (beyond just the idea that we attend church together). And, some of those relationships stuck. But, many of them didn’t. Many of these communities we found to be unsafe. Where we couldn’t be our true selves without being judged. We couldn’t express differing opinions (on faith, politics, culture) without being quickly told why we were wrong. We couldn’t go through life’s [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ty circumstances and just BE MAD. OR BE SAD. OR BE HUMAN. We felt expected to constantly be “okay”. And, truthfully, it’s exhausting. Because a lot of us weren’t okay. A lot of us had childhood trauma, failing marriages, troubled kids, a spouse who was gay, addictions to alcohol, pornography and a lot of stuff that is pretty darn heavy. And yet, we felt like couldn’t be real about any of it – because when we were real, we were shamed. Or attempted to be “fixed”, “healed” or “delivered”. Many of us have found that we can cultivate and thrive in real community outside of church. And, we find it to be much healthier for us spiritually and for our families.

In closing, I will say that I have loved the church. I love the people. I love my personal history inside it’s walls. But, as I’ve grown, I have had to make some difficult decisions regarding what is healthy for me and my family.

For myself personally, these issues were what caused me to draw the line.

I now find church to be inside my home; a space where everyone is welcome. I find that I worship by loving my children well and find prayer in the breaths and inside my heart. I find that I’m pastoring others well out here in the wilderness. As a family, we find community and love wherever we are and whoever we are with.

I believe and know Spirit to be everywhere. It is all present and ever seeking. When the church embraces this idea too, you may see some of us return. Until then, we believe we are free to follow where we need to be and free to allow others to do the same.

Grace and peace,

Anna"

An open letter to the church from a millennial – this is why we are leaving

What are your thoughts on this?

My first response wasn't clear, so this will be better:

She makes some invaluable points (despite having some inevitable errors)!

While she has some less than complete understanding of course like anyone has before they have more time and more full total reading of all the scripture.... And she did make one especially harmful error in point #3 -- an egregious error, but a common one today from people accepting what are today now just atheist talking points (distortions), about slavery.

In reality, we learn from full reading in scripture that God has been over time writing on us, working on us, incrementally, one powerful step at a time, to end slavery forever.

Slavery is still common around the world, in new forms.

But, you can see that step by step change God began to accomplish on humanity, for those that would listen to Him and follow his instructions, begin in the old testament, and accelerate in the new with Philemon, because of Christ

It's a great letter though in a couple of big ways -- getting at a couple of truly serious problems that are harming many churches today so much. There is too much hypocrisy in many churches, and it's deadly for those falling in it.

 

[Concord1968]

It's funny to me, because so much of the criticism from millennials and others about Christianity amounts to it being "too political". What do they call all this behavior, then?

"Too political" is just code for "they don't agree with MY (usually Marxist) politics".

 

[nolidad]

A former church attendee and pastor explains why she is leaving the church:

"I remember when I was serving as a pastor receiving emails, flyers and promotions for “solutions” to the issue of why millennials are leaving the church.

Truth be told, I didn’t realize I was actually a millennial until recently. (Apparently I am in the last year that they include millennials. And, ironically, I find myself joining them on this subject)

I, too, have left the church, but have not left my faith….

I loved church as a kid. It was my social outlet, my crowd, my people – faith and spirituality were something I identified with at an early age. But, with each generation, comes new perspectives and new ways of thinking.

One of the struggles many millennials have with organized religion in general is the inability of the older generations to adapt, change, or entertain new ideas and new ways of thinking. This is an issue each generation bumps up against, but this generation and this subject don’t seem to be finding a middle ground.

As a millennial, life-long church attendee and former pastor, I decided to write an open letter to the church, with the main reasons I decided to walk out of church doors. (And why many other millennials are doing the same).

Dear church,

You have asked why so many millennials are leaving your walls and refusing to come back. As one who has served, pastored and attended church my entire life, you may be surprised to learn that it isn’t just the “flaky” Christians who are leaving. Many leaders like myself are leaving too. And here’s why:

1. We don’t like hypocrisy. I know, I know, a lot of you may wrinkle your noses when I say this – or scoff and say, “maybe other Christians, but not me”. Well friends, I’ve attended, led and pastored in more than one church and in multiple denominations. And, let me tell you, there’s a constant theme. Although, in my experience it seems to be more evident in the evangelical groups, it is a steady theme none the less. An example would be: preachers and sermons demonizing pornography and any use of it. Making it appear that holy people (such as themselves) would never struggle with something like that. Especially never admit to it from the pulpit. Meanwhile, statistics show that over 50% of pastors view porn on a regular basis. Or, another example: people who lead mission trips, help the homeless, lead Bible studies and express a large outward appearance of “godliness” – yet, at home, where no one is watching, they neglect their spouses, are angry and controlling with their children and overall treat their family with much less respect and honor as they do the outside world they are “serving”.
2. We don’t think that loving your neighbor as yourself should come with a ton of conditions. Again, I can hear the argument against this statement but, hear me out. I was respected when I loved my Christian peers, pew mates and bible study companions who were like myself. I celebrated their families, their marriages, their accomplishments. But, when my neighbor didn’t attend my church, was LGBTQ or held a different faith, I was not supposed to attend their weddings, rejoice when they had or adopted children or celebrate their accomplishments (because clearly it was all the devil’s handy work). I was also expected to not vote in favor of these neighbors having the same rights as myself; such as rights to marry, have tax benefits and create a family or practice their faith publicly. Not only is this not loving my neighbors as myself – it’s hypocrisy at its finest.
3. We looked at history. History has this tendency to repeat itself. It doesn’t take long to pull back a few hundred years of history to see a nasty pattern throughout Westernized Christianity. Such as, the vast majority of slavery and racism was endorsed from pulpits. During the civil war, Christian pamphlets were passed to the confederates from churches and religious leaders in their support of God’s “holy war” – ie: the right to own slaves (Stout, Henry S.). Because, after all, slavery is endorsed by scripture. Another example, is how women’s rights were significantly hindered inside of the church and were fought against intensely (and still are) by many Christian leaders. Because, again, scripture supports the silence of women (if you want to interpret it that way). A pattern of oppression, bigotry and an overarching theme of one group holding all of the power, is nauseating.
4. We struggle with inequality. We have experienced a lot of diversity. And we believe that diversity is GOOD. We struggle with our LGBTQ brothers and sisters not being allowed to serve or have their families be welcome in church communities. We struggle with the continual lack of diversity in leadership: with women, people of color and LGBTQ people. (If you don’t believe this to be an issue, just look at who is at the top of most Christian churches and communities). And, many times if a woman does find herself at the top, she is paid significantly less than a man would be in her position. The list of spiritually gifted women, LGBTQ people, and people of color that the church has pushed out is truly a tragedy.
5. We have a hard time signing up for the idea that everyone we know who doesn’t claim our faith will be set on fire for eternity. If you’ve grown up in church, this concept seems super easy to embrace. Of course, your beloved grandma who is a universalist will burn in hell forever. Of course, your best friend at work who is an atheist will be tortured for eternity. Of course, your aunt who is a faithful Buddhist will be rejected by God and sent to be burned. This talk is so normalized for many millennials as children. But, once we grew up and really thought about what we were believing, the harder it was for us to reconcile that with the loving God we know. The concept of eternal torment is easy to embrace until it’s your grandma. Your parent. Your child. Your best friend. All of the sudden the idea of a forever place of torture doesn’t fit that well.
6. We look at scripture differently. A lot of millennials were told “because the Bible says” so much that we actually grew up and decided to read it for ourselves. We read. We studied. We wrestled. We researched. And we realized that the Bible isn’t as clear as we were taught. We learned that there are many conflictions. That there is context involved. People involved. Stories involved. We learned that the Bible is complex, beautiful and sacred. And that it’s okay to not know or understand all of it. That it’s okay to disagree with what we were taught (and even disagree with eachother) – and that’s okay.
7. We like authentic community. This is a big one. Many of us grew up attending home group, youth group, life groups, etc – whatever you want to call it. We invested time and energy into relationships, hoping to cultivate genuine connection (beyond just the idea that we attend church together). And, some of those relationships stuck. But, many of them didn’t. Many of these communities we found to be unsafe. Where we couldn’t be our true selves without being judged. We couldn’t express differing opinions (on faith, politics, culture) without being quickly told why we were wrong. We couldn’t go through life’s [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ty circumstances and just BE MAD. OR BE SAD. OR BE HUMAN. We felt expected to constantly be “okay”. And, truthfully, it’s exhausting. Because a lot of us weren’t okay. A lot of us had childhood trauma, failing marriages, troubled kids, a spouse who was gay, addictions to alcohol, pornography and a lot of stuff that is pretty darn heavy. And yet, we felt like couldn’t be real about any of it – because when we were real, we were shamed. Or attempted to be “fixed”, “healed” or “delivered”. Many of us have found that we can cultivate and thrive in real community outside of church. And, we find it to be much healthier for us spiritually and for our families.

In closing, I will say that I have loved the church. I love the people. I love my personal history inside it’s walls. But, as I’ve grown, I have had to make some difficult decisions regarding what is healthy for me and my family.

For myself personally, these issues were what caused me to draw the line.

I now find church to be inside my home; a space where everyone is welcome. I find that I worship by loving my children well and find prayer in the breaths and inside my heart. I find that I’m pastoring others well out here in the wilderness. As a family, we find community and love wherever we are and whoever we are with.

I believe and know Spirit to be everywhere. It is all present and ever seeking. When the church embraces this idea too, you may see some of us return. Until then, we believe we are free to follow where we need to be and free to allow others to do the same.

Grace and peace,

Anna"

An open letter to the church from a millennial – this is why we are leaving

What are your thoughts on this?

Well I did not read other replies so I could write from my own biblical perspective.

1. They are a pastor and they abandoned the flock??? that is the ultimate betrayal and hypocrisy. They were a shepherd and had Gods full approval to invoke the changes in their church with one exception

2. We are to love the LGBTQ community, but not to the point we accept their lifestyle and rejoice in their marriages and adoptions. We can be neighborly and kind and friendly tothem unless they claim to be a Christian.

3. Leaving fellowship over style and structure is a sign of great immaturity!

4. Looking at Scripture differently?? Not sure what that means, but if it is the common new buffet style Christianity, they do a church a blessing by leaving.

I see in this letter from a pastor, a selfish, self centered person, who is judging others without be an active member to recognize everyone in their local body are at different levels of maturity and they are unwilling to invest in people to help them grow.

They have failed in their duties a a pastor according to Ephesians 4- they abandon the church instead of maturing them.

 

[mcarans]

"Too political" is just code for "they don't agree with MY (usually Marxist) politics".

Too political is where politics comes first and faith a distant second, for example in the subjugation of parts of evangelicalism within Republicanism as outlined by the Christianity Today articles not too long ago.

 

[JacksBratt]

A former church attendee and pastor explains why she is leaving the church:

"I remember when I was serving as a pastor receiving emails, flyers and promotions for “solutions” to the issue of why millennials are leaving the church.

Truth be told, I didn’t realize I was actually a millennial until recently. (Apparently I am in the last year that they include millennials. And, ironically, I find myself joining them on this subject)

I, too, have left the church, but have not left my faith….

I loved church as a kid. It was my social outlet, my crowd, my people – faith and spirituality were something I identified with at an early age. But, with each generation, comes new perspectives and new ways of thinking.

One of the struggles many millennials have with organized religion in general is the inability of the older generations to adapt, change, or entertain new ideas and new ways of thinking. This is an issue each generation bumps up against, but this generation and this subject don’t seem to be finding a middle ground.

As a millennial, life-long church attendee and former pastor, I decided to write an open letter to the church, with the main reasons I decided to walk out of church doors. (And why many other millennials are doing the same).

Dear church,

You have asked why so many millennials are leaving your walls and refusing to come back. As one who has served, pastored and attended church my entire life, you may be surprised to learn that it isn’t just the “flaky” Christians who are leaving. Many leaders like myself are leaving too. And here’s why:

1. We don’t like hypocrisy. I know, I know, a lot of you may wrinkle your noses when I say this – or scoff and say, “maybe other Christians, but not me”. Well friends, I’ve attended, led and pastored in more than one church and in multiple denominations. And, let me tell you, there’s a constant theme. Although, in my experience it seems to be more evident in the evangelical groups, it is a steady theme none the less. An example would be: preachers and sermons demonizing pornography and any use of it. Making it appear that holy people (such as themselves) would never struggle with something like that. Especially never admit to it from the pulpit. Meanwhile, statistics show that over 50% of pastors view porn on a regular basis. Or, another example: people who lead mission trips, help the homeless, lead Bible studies and express a large outward appearance of “godliness” – yet, at home, where no one is watching, they neglect their spouses, are angry and controlling with their children and overall treat their family with much less respect and honor as they do the outside world they are “serving”.
2. We don’t think that loving your neighbor as yourself should come with a ton of conditions. Again, I can hear the argument against this statement but, hear me out. I was respected when I loved my Christian peers, pew mates and bible study companions who were like myself. I celebrated their families, their marriages, their accomplishments. But, when my neighbor didn’t attend my church, was LGBTQ or held a different faith, I was not supposed to attend their weddings, rejoice when they had or adopted children or celebrate their accomplishments (because clearly it was all the devil’s handy work). I was also expected to not vote in favor of these neighbors having the same rights as myself; such as rights to marry, have tax benefits and create a family or practice their faith publicly. Not only is this not loving my neighbors as myself – it’s hypocrisy at its finest.
3. We looked at history. History has this tendency to repeat itself. It doesn’t take long to pull back a few hundred years of history to see a nasty pattern throughout Westernized Christianity. Such as, the vast majority of slavery and racism was endorsed from pulpits. During the civil war, Christian pamphlets were passed to the confederates from churches and religious leaders in their support of God’s “holy war” – ie: the right to own slaves (Stout, Henry S.). Because, after all, slavery is endorsed by scripture. Another example, is how women’s rights were significantly hindered inside of the church and were fought against intensely (and still are) by many Christian leaders. Because, again, scripture supports the silence of women (if you want to interpret it that way). A pattern of oppression, bigotry and an overarching theme of one group holding all of the power, is nauseating.
4. We struggle with inequality. We have experienced a lot of diversity. And we believe that diversity is GOOD. We struggle with our LGBTQ brothers and sisters not being allowed to serve or have their families be welcome in church communities. We struggle with the continual lack of diversity in leadership: with women, people of color and LGBTQ people. (If you don’t believe this to be an issue, just look at who is at the top of most Christian churches and communities). And, many times if a woman does find herself at the top, she is paid significantly less than a man would be in her position. The list of spiritually gifted women, LGBTQ people, and people of color that the church has pushed out is truly a tragedy.
5. We have a hard time signing up for the idea that everyone we know who doesn’t claim our faith will be set on fire for eternity. If you’ve grown up in church, this concept seems super easy to embrace. Of course, your beloved grandma who is a universalist will burn in hell forever. Of course, your best friend at work who is an atheist will be tortured for eternity. Of course, your aunt who is a faithful Buddhist will be rejected by God and sent to be burned. This talk is so normalized for many millennials as children. But, once we grew up and really thought about what we were believing, the harder it was for us to reconcile that with the loving God we know. The concept of eternal torment is easy to embrace until it’s your grandma. Your parent. Your child. Your best friend. All of the sudden the idea of a forever place of torture doesn’t fit that well.
6. We look at scripture differently. A lot of millennials were told “because the Bible says” so much that we actually grew up and decided to read it for ourselves. We read. We studied. We wrestled. We researched. And we realized that the Bible isn’t as clear as we were taught. We learned that there are many conflictions. That there is context involved. People involved. Stories involved. We learned that the Bible is complex, beautiful and sacred. And that it’s okay to not know or understand all of it. That it’s okay to disagree with what we were taught (and even disagree with eachother) – and that’s okay.
7. We like authentic community. This is a big one. Many of us grew up attending home group, youth group, life groups, etc – whatever you want to call it. We invested time and energy into relationships, hoping to cultivate genuine connection (beyond just the idea that we attend church together). And, some of those relationships stuck. But, many of them didn’t. Many of these communities we found to be unsafe. Where we couldn’t be our true selves without being judged. We couldn’t express differing opinions (on faith, politics, culture) without being quickly told why we were wrong. We couldn’t go through life’s [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ty circumstances and just BE MAD. OR BE SAD. OR BE HUMAN. We felt expected to constantly be “okay”. And, truthfully, it’s exhausting. Because a lot of us weren’t okay. A lot of us had childhood trauma, failing marriages, troubled kids, a spouse who was gay, addictions to alcohol, pornography and a lot of stuff that is pretty darn heavy. And yet, we felt like couldn’t be real about any of it – because when we were real, we were shamed. Or attempted to be “fixed”, “healed” or “delivered”. Many of us have found that we can cultivate and thrive in real community outside of church. And, we find it to be much healthier for us spiritually and for our families.

In closing, I will say that I have loved the church. I love the people. I love my personal history inside it’s walls. But, as I’ve grown, I have had to make some difficult decisions regarding what is healthy for me and my family.

For myself personally, these issues were what caused me to draw the line.

I now find church to be inside my home; a space where everyone is welcome. I find that I worship by loving my children well and find prayer in the breaths and inside my heart. I find that I’m pastoring others well out here in the wilderness. As a family, we find community and love wherever we are and whoever we are with.

I believe and know Spirit to be everywhere. It is all present and ever seeking. When the church embraces this idea too, you may see some of us return. Until then, we believe we are free to follow where we need to be and free to allow others to do the same.

Grace and peace,

Anna"

An open letter to the church from a millennial – this is why we are leaving

What are your thoughts on this?

One verse:
2 Timothy 4:3 King James Version (KJV)

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

 

[dzheremi]

Too political is where politics comes first and faith a distant second, for example in the subjugation of parts of evangelicalism within Republicanism as outlined by the Christianity Today articles not too long ago.

Or like in this lady's list...?

 

[Athanasius377]

This is very long. Jesus biggest insight to the pharisees is simple.

Matthew 23:25
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence."

Jesus was rejected because they did not love God.

John 5:37-42
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
"I do not accept praise from men, but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts."

Without the love of God in hearts we cannot hear Him, ever.

If you mean stick to bumper sticker theology you might be disappointed in Jesus in the pages of the New Testament.

 

[Athanasius377]

This is another thing that seems unique to western churches and societies. I cannot imagine anyone in a natively-planted Middle Eastern or African church attempting to condemn others for being too traditional. From my limited experience, they wouldn't confuse being kind to downtrodden people with being fungible on basic doctrine, either.

Exhibit A: This propaganda video about HH Pope Shenouda III of the Coptic Orthodox Church

Disregarding the claims of the voice-over regarding how great HH is, it is as HH puts it himself:

"I may be very gentle with the poor; however, if it touches the religion or the doctrine, I become another person" (i.e., we don't exchange one for the other)

and

"We are not pressured by anyone except by the teachings of the Bible"

It seems that for many, because the second isn't true, the first isn't either.

The question I would have (since obviously this is an example from my own Church, so it's pretty safe to say that we don't have this 'Pharisee card' problem...at least not yet...) is why are western churches doing this to themselves? I understand why individual western Christians would do this to each other -- it's a way of having moral/ethical purity if you clearly do not have doctrinal purity (and obviously inherent in this kind of thing is the idea that the two can or ought to be separated, with the moral or faux-moral placed above everything else; this really isn't a new idea, particularly in some forms of Protestantism) -- so that explains things like this lady's screed, but why does it seem like this stuff is taking/has taken over entire churches, in some cases causing splits (e.g., the formerly-united United Methodists) over the hot button political/social issues of the day?

It's funny to me, because so much of the criticism from millennials and others about Christianity amounts to it being "too political". What do they call all this behavior, then?

It really does seem like for these people that when the Church has a stance that I don't agree with, then it is being "too political", but when I have a stance that the Church doesn't agree with, then it is a sign that the Church is "Pharisaical" and must change or else it will collapse or whatever, because obviously it can't go on without people like me. Huh. Isn't that convenient? In this scheme, the Church is always automatically wrong no matter what it does (unless it involves capitulating to my every desire), and I never have to reexamine anything I believe or do to see if I might be wrong.

^^ Ladies and Gentlemen, Damas y Caballeros, I give you the real reason why modern western Christianity is dying. ^^ (At least among a certain type of person who thinks the entire world revolves around them, which is pretty common with Millennials. Just look at how many times I used the words "I" and "me" in this very post.)

Its more of an American thing. We have no sense of history or roots. Everything new and shiney is better than something old. That's why we have single use everything from water bottles to housing.

 

[Athanasius377]

This is another thing that seems unique to western churches and societies. I cannot imagine anyone in a natively-planted Middle Eastern or African church attempting to condemn others for being too traditional. From my limited experience, they wouldn't confuse being kind to downtrodden people with being fungible on basic doctrine, either.

Exhibit A: This propaganda video about HH Pope Shenouda III of the Coptic Orthodox Church

Disregarding the claims of the voice-over regarding how great HH is, it is as HH puts it himself:

"I may be very gentle with the poor; however, if it touches the religion or the doctrine, I become another person" (i.e., we don't exchange one for the other)

and

"We are not pressured by anyone except by the teachings of the Bible"

It seems that for many, because the second isn't true, the first isn't either.

The question I would have (since obviously this is an example from my own Church, so it's pretty safe to say that we don't have this 'Pharisee card' problem...at least not yet...) is why are western churches doing this to themselves? I understand why individual western Christians would do this to each other -- it's a way of having moral/ethical purity if you clearly do not have doctrinal purity (and obviously inherent in this kind of thing is the idea that the two can or ought to be separated, with the moral or faux-moral placed above everything else; this really isn't a new idea, particularly in some forms of Protestantism) -- so that explains things like this lady's screed, but why does it seem like this stuff is taking/has taken over entire churches, in some cases causing splits (e.g., the formerly-united United Methodists) over the hot button political/social issues of the day?

It's funny to me, because so much of the criticism from millennials and others about Christianity amounts to it being "too political". What do they call all this behavior, then?

It really does seem like for these people that when the Church has a stance that I don't agree with, then it is being "too political", but when I have a stance that the Church doesn't agree with, then it is a sign that the Church is "Pharisaical" and must change or else it will collapse or whatever, because obviously it can't go on without people like me. Huh. Isn't that convenient? In this scheme, the Church is always automatically wrong no matter what it does (unless it involves capitulating to my every desire), and I never have to reexamine anything I believe or do to see if I might be wrong.

^^ Ladies and Gentlemen, Damas y Caballeros, I give you the real reason why modern western Christianity is dying. ^^ (At least among a certain type of person who thinks the entire world revolves around them, which is pretty common with Millennials. Just look at how many times I used the words "I" and "me" in this very post.)

I don't know if its unique just to the west. The older I get, the more I appreciate the wisdom of those that came before me. That wisdom is simply dismissed like rubbish after a football match too often and it shows.

 

[Athanasius377]

Too political is where politics comes first and faith a distant second, for example in the subjugation of parts of evangelicalism within Republicanism as outlined by the Christianity Today articles not too long ago.

Ok. Let’s back up a second. What exactly do you mean? Candidates for office speaking from pulpit? If so I too would object if the aim is to speak as a candidate. If they are a member of the church not so much. Please be specific because your statement is rather broad.

 

[Halbhh]

I don't know if its unique just to the west. The older I get, the more I appreciate the wisdom of those that came before me. That wisdom is simply dismissed like rubbish after a football match too often and it shows.

ah, now I see what you were responding to earlier in that strange looking post #99 (the one of yours I saw first, and was hard to know what you meant), where it appears superficially as if you just responded to some nice scripture with...what appeared as to accidentally look as if to suggest scripture itself was down on the level of bumper sticker error (which of course wasn't a likely intended meaning!, but an unfortunate appearance).

So, now I better get what you are quite reasonably are objecting to... as I would put it: throwing the baby out with the bath water (to put my own angle on it), though I'm sure you would have more than a bit to add!

I don't think you should read her writing as being even slightly about
"tradition" in the sense you mean the word "tradition". She means something very different(!).

As I read it her writing was in part including sort of a dumping of emotions, and included significant errors (I pointed out a huge error of her's of major magnitude in my own response)...

But, her writing also included a real, actual problem some churches (not necessarily most, but more than just 1 or 2 only!) have today, the hypocrisy problem, where there is too much (there will always be some, but it's another thing where there is a lot!) -- again for clarity I say in some churches (not all).

It's talking past each other. She could have done well though to let her writing sit a few days or weeks, and try to narrow it down and thereby eliminate some of the parts that are really just speculations, and turn out wrong. Actually, instead of writing an emotional kind of divorce statement, she'd have done better to just focus on one huge problem -- hypocrisy in churches -- and only that, alone. That would have been quite a lot better.

 

[Athanasius377]

As I read it her writing was in part including sort of a dumping of emotions, and included significant errors (I pointed out a huge error of her's of major magnitude in my own response)...

But, her writing also included a real, actual problem some churches (not necessarily most, but more than just 1 or 2 only!) have today, the hypocrisy problem, where there is too much (there will always be some, but it's another thing where there is a lot!) -- again for clarity I say in some churches (not all).

you bring up a good point. Perhaps my visceral reaction was due in part because it’s the same old tripe that’s been floating around for decades. In fact the author of the letter (not the OP) didn’t even bother to distance herself from the numerous open letters saying the exact thing. Another poster mentioned it sounded like Rob Bell who also apostitized while saying the exact thing. I’m fact there’s a link on the author’s pages to Bell’s book where these objections are enumerated.

Maybe it would be best to say the church and especially evangelicals are not as concerned with personal holiness as they should be. If the OP had posted that statement I would have concurred. Hypocrisy has been and always will be a valid charge against members of the church. The difference is that as members of the same acknowledge this and beg our Lord for mercy.

just a few of my thoughts. Good post btw.

 

[mcarans]

Ok. Let’s back up a second. What exactly do you mean? Candidates for office speaking from pulpit? If so I too would object if the aim is to speak as a candidate. If they are a member of the church not so much. Please be specific because your statement is rather broad.

Timothy Dalrymple, president and CEO of Christianity Today, the magazine founded by Billy Graham: "The cost has been too high. American evangelicalism is not a Republican PAC." (The Flag in the Whirlwind: An Update from CT’s President)

The way he had to state that American evangelicalism is not a Republican PAC suggests that it has come perilously close to looking like one - and this comes from a conservative Evangelical not someone anti Evangelical.

 

[BroRoyVa79]

I, too, have left the church, but have not left my faith….

I loved church as a kid. It was my social outlet, my crowd, my people – faith and spirituality were something I identified with at an early age. But, with each generation, comes new perspectives and new ways of thinking.

One of the struggles many millennials have with organized religion in general is the inability of the older generations to adapt, change, or entertain new ideas and new ways of thinking. This is an issue each generation bumps up against, but this generation and this subject don’t seem to be finding a middle ground.

This is the general fallacious viewpoint that she has. Everything that's new isn't better. Some new things are shabby, less time put in to them, etc. Sure, they're shiny and appear great, but they're made with less sturdy materials, etc. The same can be said for new ideas, simply because they're new, doesn't necessarily mean they're progressive, forward thinking, and/or generally better.

1. We don’t like hypocrisy. I know, I know, a lot of you may wrinkle your noses when I say this – or scoff and say, “maybe other Christians, but not me”. Well friends, I’ve attended, led and pastored in more than one church and in multiple denominations. And, let me tell you, there’s a constant theme. Although, in my experience it seems to be more evident in the evangelical groups, it is a steady theme none the less. An example would be: preachers and sermons demonizing pornography and any use of it. Making it appear that holy people (such as themselves) would never struggle with something like that. Especially never admit to it from the pulpit. Meanwhile, statistics show that over 50% of pastors view porn on a regular basis. Or, another example: people who lead mission trips, help the homeless, lead Bible studies and express a large outward appearance of “godliness” – yet, at home, where no one is watching, they neglect their spouses, are angry and controlling with their children and overall treat their family with much less respect and honor as they do the outside world they are “serving”.

Oh my, she discovered Christians aren't perfect, even Christian leaders aren't perfect. Okay, I get it, she believes it's wrong for a leader to be preaching against a sin they're doing. Two things to this, first there are ample Bible scriptures with instruction on how to handle a sinning brother or sister. (Matt 18:15-17 for starters). Second, God used a donkey to rebuke Balaam, God said the rocks will testify to Him. Point being, God can use current sinners to accomplish His work and then deal with their flaws in His time as well. Not saying people should have a free pass to sin, but this whole idea of perfect people preaching is flawed. Even if it was an inner, hidden sin of anger, but not outwardly showed, the preacher is still a sinner. After all, Jesus said if you get angry at a person you've committed murder in your heart. (Matt 5:21-22) Again, they don't have to show it or act on it. You wouldn't know they got angry.

Yes, I know Christian leaders are to be blameless, etc. but that also takes into account the reality that they are human and can fall. Thus, the reason for instructions on dealing with fallen believers.

"There may be some sins of which a man cannot speak, but there is no sin which the blood of Christ cannot wash away." - Spurgeon

2. We don’t think that loving your neighbor as yourself should come with a ton of conditions. Again, I can hear the argument against this statement but, hear me out. I was respected when I loved my Christian peers, pew mates and bible study companions who were like myself. I celebrated their families, their marriages, their accomplishments. But, when my neighbor didn’t attend my church, was LGBTQ or held a different faith, I was not supposed to attend their weddings, rejoice when they had or adopted children or celebrate their accomplishments (because clearly it was all the devil’s handy work). I was also expected to not vote in favor of these neighbors having the same rights as myself; such as rights to marry, have tax benefits and create a family or practice their faith publicly. Not only is this not loving my neighbors as myself – it’s hypocrisy at its finest.

This is where the new thinking becomes a problem and gets in the way of truth. The Bible does not condone LGBTQ, but in her mind and the mind of those who think like her we should ignore that reality and embrace the current trends of today. What happens when those trends change to something else? Something far more heinous? Do we simply say, "Well this in the Bible that condemned murder, etc. well that's just old, this is the new thing?" I know that is an extreme example, but post same-sex legal victories, the crowd of people who want to love children came along. What's next? No, this is not a slippery slope fallacy, you can go out online right now, on YouTube and see Professors starting the strategy that was used to change views on lesbian and homosexual behavior by saying "it's just who they are."

Since she was a pastor, I'm going to assume she had some formal training in fundamental theology. I went to her about page and didn't see any formal education listed, so I'll just assume she, at least had some basic education on certain theological concepts like loving the sinner but hating the sin. Embracing the person, but not embracing their sinful lifestyle.

I'm not going to say what boundaries everyone should set for that, but at some point you are encouraging the person to live in sin if you, for instance, go to party with them knowing they're an alcoholic and there will be alcohol there. Instead, of maybe encouraging them to go somewhere else for example. Or going to a raunchy movie with someone you know struggles with porn.

On one hand she wants to complain about hypocrisy from Church leaders condemning sins they commit, on the other hand she wants to complain about Christians not encouraging sin in the LGBTQ community? Again, this is a product of the times and the flawed mindset that progressive ideas must be better well...just because they're new and forward thinking.

From a Biblical perspective, LGBTQ is wrong. Now if you're arguing from a philosophical, political, or science perspective that's different. But there are arguments there to also show these practices have negative impacts on society.

3. We looked at history. History has this tendency to repeat itself. It doesn’t take long to pull back a few hundred years of history to see a nasty pattern throughout Westernized Christianity. Such as, the vast majority of slavery and racism was endorsed from pulpits. During the civil war, Christian pamphlets were passed to the confederates from churches and religious leaders in their support of God’s “holy war” – ie: the right to own slaves (Stout, Henry S.). Because, after all, slavery is endorsed by scripture. Another example, is how women’s rights were significantly hindered inside of the church and were fought against intensely (and still are) by many Christian leaders. Because, again, scripture supports the silence of women (if you want to interpret it that way). A pattern of oppression, bigotry and an overarching theme of one group holding all of the power, is nauseating.

This is an example of Christianity embracing current culture. It's ironic she uses this because it is an example of What.Not.To.Do. regarding current trends. Still, the reality is there were Christians on both sides in history when it came to these things. Most of the abolition movement were Christians, or at the very least, people who believed the Bible taught against slavery.

She claims that millennial know history, I beg to differ. She only cites the negative, not the positive like the Second Great Awakening encouraging the abolition movement or the many early abolitionists writing against people who used the Bible to advocate slavery. Then there's the reality that like in the ancient days, slavery was something practiced and the Bible established laws often better than those set around it. I won't get into the weeds about this as I wrote a paper on this subject in school years ago since it's a pet peeve of mine due to where I grew up.

The other side of this is that Anna displays all the ideologies of a current left leaning liberal. She talks about patterns of oppression, bigotry, and of one group holding all the power...dare I say that the group she currently leans towards seems to lack the self-awareness that they have regressed to their original roots (Democrats were the party of the KKK and Confederates) and have adopted an acceptance of oppressive, totalitarian ideas to get their will across...hmmm?

4. We struggle with inequality. We have experienced a lot of diversity. And we believe that diversity is GOOD. We struggle with our LGBTQ brothers and sisters not being allowed to serve or have their families be welcome in church communities. We struggle with the continual lack of diversity in leadership: with women, people of color and LGBTQ people. (If you don’t believe this to be an issue, just look at who is at the top of most Christian churches and communities). And, many times if a woman does find herself at the top, she is paid significantly less than a man would be in her position. The list of spiritually gifted women, LGBTQ people, and people of color that the church has pushed out is truly a tragedy.

Since Anna mentions this twice, this seems to be a core issue for her. See response to #2. LGBTQ people are welcome to go to church, in fact, many of them already are there. Sadly, they end up changing it from the inside rather than the church changing them. Especially in churches I grew up in, see the paragraph below.

She mentions people of color as if there aren't Black churches. I know they exist, I grew up in them.
Also as if there aren't Black Christian leaders embraced by the whole of the Church. Quick example: Dallas Theological Seminary's YouTube page: Look at the number of non-White lecturers.

Once again, a progressive person who embraces identity politics shows that their ideas don't match up with reality. That's why its regressive. They think we're still somewhere between slavery and pre-civil-rights era 1960's.

5. We have a hard time signing up for the idea that everyone we know who doesn’t claim our faith will be set on fire for eternity. If you’ve grown up in church, this concept seems super easy to embrace. Of course, your beloved grandma who is a universalist will burn in hell forever. Of course, your best friend at work who is an atheist will be tortured for eternity. Of course, your aunt who is a faithful Buddhist will be rejected by God and sent to be burned. This talk is so normalized for many millennials as children. But, once we grew up and really thought about what we were believing, the harder it was for us to reconcile that with the loving God we know. The concept of eternal torment is easy to embrace until it’s your grandma. Your parent. Your child. Your best friend. All of the sudden the idea of a forever place of torture doesn’t fit that well.

I've had family members die who weren't right with God. Does it hurt to know they're lost forever, yes. Does that change reality, no. Reality is reality whether you like it or not, whether you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore it. Whether it makes you uncomfortable or not.

Jesus speaks more about hell than heaven, must be a reason for that.

My daughter had an issue with this. It was bothering her that so many people would end up lost, tormented, in hell. I explained to her that it's ultimately their choice. Everyone has a choice. At the end of it all they'll be held to their choice. Many people don't choose God. That's their choice. Period.

This, in my opinion, is a product of Christians focusing entirely too much on the wrong definition of what love is. It's the definition that love is always gentle, always patient, always merciful, always soft, always kind, never uncomfortable. It fails to take into account the side of love that is hard, just, holds one accountable, corrective, and honest. That latter side is the side of God that is also loving because He has to hold people accountable, but for someone who thinks we shouldn't tell the LGBTQ community that their sinning, I don't think Anna grasps this.

6. We look at scripture differently. A lot of millennials were told “because the Bible says” so much that we actually grew up and decided to read it for ourselves. We read. We studied. We wrestled. We researched. And we realized that the Bible isn’t as clear as we were taught. We learned that there are many conflictions. That there is context involved. People involved. Stories involved. We learned that the Bible is complex, beautiful and sacred. And that it’s okay to not know or understand all of it. That it’s okay to disagree with what we were taught (and even disagree with eachother) – and that’s okay.

To be fair, some people do and have responded this way when they seemed intimidated by a question. However, it seems ingenious to not acknowledge that there are plenty who don't. There are plenty who study, know the context, etc. and are willing to answer questions and wrestle with subjects. If one went to school to learn theology this is a fundamental skill taught on how to interpret scripture properly and while I realize not all seminaries are equal, the reality is that there are plenty of studious and learned believers out there with answers. Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean it's not an answer.

7. We like authentic community. This is a big one. Many of us grew up attending home group, youth group, life groups, etc – whatever you want to call it. We invested time and energy into relationships, hoping to cultivate genuine connection (beyond just the idea that we attend church together). And, some of those relationships stuck. But, many of them didn’t. Many of these communities we found to be unsafe. Where we couldn’t be our true selves without being judged. We couldn’t express differing opinions (on faith, politics, culture) without being quickly told why we were wrong. We couldn’t go through life’s [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ty circumstances and just BE MAD. OR BE SAD. OR BE HUMAN. We felt expected to constantly be “okay”. And, truthfully, it’s exhausting. Because a lot of us weren’t okay. A lot of us had childhood trauma, failing marriages, troubled kids, a spouse who was gay, addictions to alcohol, pornography and a lot of stuff that is pretty darn heavy. And yet, we felt like couldn’t be real about any of it – because when we were real, we were shamed. Or attempted to be “fixed”, “healed” or “delivered”. Many of us have found that we can cultivate and thrive in real community outside of church. And, we find it to be much healthier for us spiritually and for our families.
In closing, I will say that I have loved the church. I love the people. I love my personal history inside it’s walls. But, as I’ve grown, I have had to make some difficult decisions regarding what is healthy for me and my family.

I worry about her being a pastor when she says Christians shouldn't attempt to deliver people from their vices. Again, she shows that she disagrees with dealing with people's sin yet she started off talking about sinful leaders speaking on sin? She doesn't want to be judged, but she judges?

This will always be one of my pet peeves, when people say "don't judge" and often misquote Jesus. No, Anna's not doing this here directly, but the theme is there.

To be fair, sure, there's a culture of shaming sin or perceived sin from a hypocritical position, but this doesn't deny the reality that the Bible encourages, no demands, that believers call each other out on sin and try to help each other work through that sin. Anna seems to join the two things together as one bad act rather than show she's capable of discerning one from the other.

I worry that her brand of Christianity as it is with many others will create a community of people justifying their wrong. The problem I see here is that she and others like her don't like to be told they're wrong.

What are your thoughts on this?

Anna is plagued by the current model of progressive thought, liberal Christianity, whatever you want to call it. She has placed current social ideas such as identity politics, political correctness, etc. over Biblical truth.

I also suspect Anna is a product of her time in which she thinks everything before her doesn't matter, other than history that exposes the negative side of something. She writes an open letter to the church saying "don't judge, don't tell us we're wrong, don't act on anything in the Bible that tells us we're practicing sin, you must be perfect to do so," and yet she's an exact example of what she's complaining about.

 

[Halbhh]

Timothy Dalrymple, president and CEO of Christianity Today, the magazine founded by Billy Graham: "The cost has been too high. American evangelicalism is not a Republican PAC." (The Flag in the Whirlwind: An Update from CT’s President)

The way he had to state that American evangelicalism is not a Republican PAC suggests that it has come perilously close to looking like one - and this comes from a conservative Evangelical not someone anti Evangelical.

Very good to see that link! GOOD to read!

 

[Athanasius377]

Timothy Dalrymple, president and CEO of Christianity Today, the magazine founded by Billy Graham: "The cost has been too high. American evangelicalism is not a Republican PAC." (The Flag in the Whirlwind: An Update from CT’s President)

The way he had to state that American evangelicalism is not a Republican PAC suggests that it has come perilously close to looking like one - and this comes from a conservative Evangelical not someone anti Evangelical.

Ok. We’re getting somewhere. Thank you for the response. But consider the lack is stats or factual information in the article. There are evangelicals that are all in with President Trump yet much more that pulled the lever for the same and felt ill because of the lack of choice. Either vote for someone who’s openly hostile to you or someone who has serious moral shortcomings but is not openly hostile. Yet our media would have you believe evangelicals voted lockstep for trump when that wasn’t the case. And the media wonder why they are loathed in The middle of the country.

TERRY MATTINGLY: Religious fault lines in ‘Alienated America’

edit. There is a much better article by Mattingly that goes into depth but I am on my phone so my
Search function is rather limited.

 

[Beanieboy]

Do you just not read very much counter-Christian thought?

On this site it is pretty common. Basically, most people view the Church as modern day Pharisees. The Pharisees criticized Christ for not only acknowledging the sinners, but eating with them. There is a brand of Christianity, usually more conservative, that thinks themselves morally superior, to the point of claiming all Muslims are terrorists, or gay people are recruiting children. Pharisees were criticized as white washed tombs, who enjoyed being exalted by others as holy, but were dead inside, most obviously demonstrated by their constant plots to entrap Christ who dared challenge their authority, and refer to them as snakes and vipers, despite that they were the teachers of Scripture. They sought to kill the very God they claimed to worship.
Modern day Christians make a mockery of the call to love your neighbor, figjting for legal discrimination, fighting against adding sexual orientation under hate crime laws (while having no issue of religion being included)...I could go on.
Christ, at the Last Supper, said all men will know you are my disciples by the love you show one another.

That is not what Christians are known for.

Literally everything quoted in the OP has been said by "former Christians" for decades. Welcoming, hypocrisy, the young people, something something LGBT, rearrange the order of her grievances and you've got the same essential bones as hundreds (or thousands) of other similar articles online.

Indeed. I don't know if this is a genuine letter, but I have heard the same thing from an evangelical pastor who referred to a study with similar findings. If one person says it, take it with a grain of salt. If you are hearing the message repeatedly, you may want to take it seriously, and talk to God about it.

Hypocrisy? Welcome to real life! Everybody's a hypocrite sooner or later. It's not like Christians are breathing rarefied air there.

So, it's ok to be like everyone else? Even your tone comes off as overly self defensive and angry, and prevents you from humbling yourself ling enough to think, "Why do people single out Christians?"

The same reason Christ singled out Pharisees - they condemned others, but forgave themselves, acted arrogantly and self righteous, and used the law to burden people, which they didn't do to themselves.

LGBT? Golly, the mainstream Christian community opposes anything that's not heterosexual just like they did back in ancient Rome. Stop the presses!

Um, first of all, you may want to read up on your history. Rome, and Caligula? They weren't only in support of heterosexual sex. Homosexual sex, and bath houses, were recreational, heterosexual sex procreational.

But her point was not whether saying same-sex sex is sinful, but rather the treatment of LGBTQ by Christians commanded to love their neighbor as themselves.

Do you think it is loving to fight to make it legal to fire someone just for being gay at a bank or an office?
Do you believe it is loving to tell slanderous lies about a marginalized minority that often leads to violence, and then deny the violence exists?

Her point was this
Matthew 5
mFor if you love those who love you, whatreward do you have? Do not even the taxcollectors do the same? 47 And if you greetonly your brothers,9 what more are youdoing than others? Do not even ntheGentiles do the same? 48 oYou thereforemust be pperfect, qas your heavenly Fatheris perfect.

She was saying that within her church, those who had the same religion, were same thinking, were loved, and those outside of the church - LGBTQ, people of other religions, were thought to be enemies, evil, and so, did everything in their power to fight against having the equality they themselves enjoyed, felt justified in mistreating them, lying about them, etc.

I won't even bother with the rest of that woman's sub-zero take. If this is all truly new content for you... well, do what the rest of us did: wait a while. It'll get pretty old pretty quick, I think.

I wouldn't imagine you really bothered with any of it.

As a Christian myself, talking to other people, who immediately take a defensive stance, will say these same things:
Christians are very judgemental of others and forgiving of themselves.
My response? Sadly, it's true of some Christians.
They will tell me of the injustice done to LGBTQ just to achieve equality. Again, I will say, sadly, that is also true, and add that I am often told I'm not a Christian, sometimes gleefully, sometimes spitefully, and how surreal it is to have another Christian attack you. On this site, a poster went into a rage after I changed my icon back to Christian, demanding I denounce Christ. Seriously, who does that?

And the result? I hope it is what the sinners experienced with Christ. I'm sure the put up their dukes, preparing for the spiritual condemnation of yet another holy person, and instead, had Christ himself humble himself, and ask if he could eat with them, which in that culture was a great honor.

it isn't my goal to make others think I am holy, holier than them, waste time condemning others' specks while ignoring the sequoia growing out of my eye, feel morally superior, or prove I'm right.

It os my one goal, to share the love of Christ that he put there with everyone I come in contact with. It is through my actions, thoughts, and words that I express that love, and as with God's love, it is unconditional. There is no tagline making it more of a dig, saying,"Love you, just hate your sin." Instead, I acknowledge each person as a child of God, loved unconditionally by God, in gratitude for God loving me. I ser Christ when the person says, "I'm hungry. Can you feed me?" I do none of this like I'm earning points for salvation or some paycheck in eternity. I do all of this because Christ planted seeds of love in my heart at a very young age, and these are simply the fruit I am bearing.

So, get angry and dismiss the OP, do the same for me, or take the message to God in prayer and just listen for some kind of confirmation, because this message may have been for you from him. I am often just the vessel.

I don't judge you either way. You have free will. Only you will answer for the choices you make.

Personally, I ponder something the HS stirs up in me, meditate in prayer about it, asking in English, pray in tongues, then sit in silence, await an answer, and God replies.

Sometimes, I ponder, self reflect, pray and then let it go.
Other times, I sm confronted with the truth, and have a choice to serve God, or my own ego, and my ego makes a good sales pitch, so I get it.

It just saddens me to read a letter to the church of someone explaining in depth why they are leaving summed up in my opinion that the church no longer teaches to love your neighbor, and instead honor your your own ego, becoming modern day Pharisees, and that is what she is leaving,

only to have so many responses sound like: Good riddance! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

But the Good Shepherd leaves the 99 in search for the 1 who is lost.

So if that is the best anyone has, it is such the antithesis of what Christ taught, thatI say to her Run! Don't walk! Wolves in sheep's clothing whose intent is to lead you astray to devour your soul.

 

[Beanieboy]

Wow, it's been a minute since I've done one of those. You feel like the HS kind of uses you for the voice, it flows out, often long, then stops. Years ago, I would read a post, and knew those weren't my words.