ONLY those on the road to be totally dead to self can bring a revival.

[probinson]

Here would be our part...to keep our trust in his promise to live through us....Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was promised...Sara was not far behind...she had long before passed menopause...and Abraham was aware his body was dead as to producing offspring...but he did not consider these things instead he believed the promise.

What did he do...sit in his tent and believe God was going to create a baby. No...he went to his wife and did those things that anyone would who was expecting their wife to get pregnant

This is a brilliant point!

God didn't make a baby materialize out of thin air while they just sat back and "cruised". Abraham and Sarah had to do their part while trusting in the promise that God had given them.

 

[rick357]

This is a brilliant point!

God didn't make a baby materialize out of thin air while they just sat back and "cruised". Abraham and Sarah had to do their part while trusting in the promise that God had given them.

Thank you thier part was believing the promise that belief led to an action....which is what James meant by I show my faith by my actions....its not the action that pleases God its the faith that motivates the action

 

[Frogster]

Exacyly....when the old man is trusted he is unrighteuos....when the new man of the spirit God one with us is trusted he is righteous

I hear ya bubba! Romans 5.

People trusted that we were bound under the power of the first Adam, gave adam all this credit for how evil they were , helpless, awful, etc. But people don't want to give the Last Adam all of his credit, and how now we are bound by grace, under his power, and we don't have to help out what he did on the cross, just like how we did not help the first adam fall.

I say equal credit dhould be given to the Lord and his grace.

I became a sinner by adam, I did not do it, so likewise I did not become righteous by me or my efforts. The two Adam's did it all.


Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

 

[Frogster]

This is a brilliant point!

God didn't make a baby materialize out of thin air while they just sat back and "cruised". Abraham and Sarah had to do their part while trusting in the promise that God had given them.

Yet, Paul uses Abraham everywhere, to show it is not by works.

I mean rerally, they would have sex anyway, they were human.

 

[probinson]

People trusted that we were bound under the power of the first Adam, gave adam all this credit for how evil they were , helpless, awful, etc. But people don't want to give the Last Adam all of his credit, and how now we are bound by grace, under his power, and we don't have to help out what he did on the cross, just like how we did not help the first adam fall.

I say equal credit dhould be given to the Lord and his grace.

I became a sinner by adam, I did not do it, so likewise I did not become righteous by me or my efforts. The two Adam's did it all.

Interesting.

So how do you believe one is saved? Do they have to do anything to receive salvation?

 

[Frogster]

Interesting.

So how do you believe one is saved? Do they have to do anything to receive salvation?

Do you see my headship point here?

why did everyone just cruise in the flesh, it came naturally, but they don't cruise in grace, they want to take over?

besides, right now we are talking about a living each day covering kind of grace.

were you covered in adam #1? Yup, then why not be covered and cruise in Adam #2?


why trust the power of the first dominion, but not the second, whereby you give Adam more credit than Christ?

 

[probinson]

Yet, Paul uses Abraham everywhere, to show it is not by works.

I mean rerally, they would have sex anyway, they were human.

The point here is simple. Abraham and Sarah conceived a child because God said they would. God empowered them to have a child. But they still had to do their part.

I know this is detrimental to your message, so I can understand why you would want to explain it away. But the fact of the matter is we see this over and over (and over and over) in scripture.

Another great example is David facing Goliath. We all know that a stone to the head isn't going to kill you. Yet David went in the empowerment from God and defeated a giant. God empowered David to defeat Goliath, but David went. Had David just sat on his hindquarters and waited for God to defeat Goliath it would have never happened.

God's grace empowers us to do things we could never do in our own strength. But we still must do our part.

 

[rick357]

Yet, Paul uses Abraham everywhere, to show it is not by works.

I mean rerally, they would have sex anyway, they were human.

This is an excellant point....even those things we would have done anyway....when we are expecting God to move become life....I read a bible verse and pow!!! God opens up something life changing....if we expect Adam to keep living in us he will....but if we expect Jesus to kick his lieing butt and kill him in his cross...then breath his own breath into us and live through us .....he already is

 

[probinson]

Do you see my headship point here?

This doesn't answer the question at all.

Perhaps if you share how you believe one is saved it would clear some things up. Does a person have to do something to receive salvation?

 

[rick357]

The point here is simple. Abraham and Sarah conceived a child because God said they would. God empowered them to have a child. But they still had to do their part.

I know this is detrimental to your message, so I can understand why you would want to explain it away. But the fact of the matter is we see this over and over (and over and over) in scripture.

Another great example is David facing Goliath. We all know that a stone to the head isn't going to kill you. Yet David went in the empowerment from God and defeated a giant. God empowered David to defeat Goliath, but David went. Had David just sat on his hindquarters and waited for God to defeat Goliath it would have never happened.

God's grace empowers us to do things we could never do in our own strength. But we still must do our part.

But David went because he believed...that is our part to believe everything else....if I say I believe God wants me to do this or that but dont do it ....I didnt believe God I only heard him....Israel heard him say he had given them the promise land....but their fear they were not strong enough to accomplish it shows they did not believe it

 

[probinson]

But David went because he believed...

Agreed. We must first believe that it is God who empowers us. Still, "David went".

that is our part to believe everything else....if I say I believe God wants me to do this or that but dont do it ....I didnt believe God I only heard him....Israel heard him say he had given them the promise land....but their fear they were not strong enough to accomplish it shows they did not believe it

Agreed. God empowered them, but they did not act on it.

This is a recurrent theme all throughout scripture. God empowered people to do the impossible. But they still had to do their part.

David had to face Goliath. Joshua had to walk around the city walls. Naaman had to dip in the dirty Jordan 7 times. None of these things make any sense in the natural, but they believed God and acted.

Faith without corresponding works is dead.

 

[Frogster]

This doesn't answer the question at all.

Perhaps if you share how you believe one is saved it would clear some things up. Does a person have to do something to receive salvation?

faith is not a work, there are numerous citations I could post. You are avoiding the living grace that covers issue here today.

 

[Frogster]

Agreed. We must first believe that it is God who empowers us. Still, "David went".



Agreed. God empowered them, but they did not act on it.

This is a recurrent theme all throughout scripture. God empowered people to do the impossible. But they still had to do their part.

David had to face Goliath. Joshua had to walk around the city walls. Naaman had to dip in the dirty Jordan 7 times. None of these things make any sense in the natural, but they believed God and acted.

Faith without corresponding works is dead.

mixing has begun, sure, God said go to Jerusalem, to get the promise, they did..I would too, but my going is not my righteousness.

This is now becoming works righteousnes, there is the difference.


rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,


Lets not try to perfect in the flesh, like the Galatians were doing.They began in the Spirit by faith, then wanted to add works, to help out a bit.:o



3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by[a] the flesh?

 

[Frogster]

The point here is simple. Abraham and Sarah conceived a child because God said they would. God empowered them to have a child. But they still had to do their part.

I know this is detrimental to your message, so I can understand why you would want to explain it away. But the fact of the matter is we see this over and over (and over and over) in scripture.

Another great example is David facing Goliath. We all know that a stone to the head isn't going to kill you. Yet David went in the empowerment from God and defeated a giant. God empowered David to defeat Goliath, but David went. Had David just sat on his hindquarters and waited for God to defeat Goliath it would have never happened.

God's grace empowers us to do things we could never do in our own strength. But we still must do our part.

was Abraham pronounced righteous in gen 15:6 because of faith, or for "doing his part"?:

 

[Frogster]

Agreed. We must first believe that it is God who empowers us. Still, "David went".



Agreed. God empowered them, but they did not act on it.

This is a recurrent theme all throughout scripture. God empowered people to do the impossible. But they still had to do their part.

David had to face Goliath. Joshua had to walk around the city walls. Naaman had to dip in the dirty Jordan 7 times. None of these things make any sense in the natural, but they believed God and acted.

Faith without corresponding works is dead.

faith without works is dead, again, james said contrary in Acts 15.

Ok, so can woks create spiritual life? lets look it fom a different perspective.

Can works give life, or faith, or grace?

This says no.


Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

 

[rick357]

faith without works is dead, again, james said contrary in Acts 15.

Ok, so can woks create spiritual life? lets look it fom a different perspective.

Can works give life, or faith, or grace?

This says no.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life,[/B] then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

Absolutly we again go to the children of Israel at Jordon...when God declares to them the result of unbelief....they wrongly asume they should perform the action though faith is not what motivates it...it turns out badly

This is the veil that covers the law...that men believe it is something to be done....Jesus taught us it is something to become not do....his own testimony is he did not say or do anything that was of himself....we are to be as he is one who God acts through not one who acts for God

 

[Frogster]

In other words, it faith without works id dead, then that means works should add life, but Paul said they can't.

 

[Frogster]

Absolutly we again go to the children of Israel at Jordon...when God declares to them the result of unbelief....they wrongly asume they should perform the action though faith is not what motivates it...it turns out badly

This is the veil that covers the law...that men believe it is something to be done....Jesus taught us it is something to become not do....his own testimony is he did not say or do anything that was of himself....we are to be as he is one who God acts through not one who acts for God

You say good stuff!

 

[rick357]

In other words, it faith without works id dead, then that means works should add life, but Paul said they can't.

That misses James point...he was saying if we believe it will motivate action a living faith...not that the action is the source of anything

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Agreed. We must first believe that it is God who empowers us. Still, "David went".



Agreed. God empowered them, but they did not act on it.

This is a recurrent theme all throughout scripture. God empowered people to do the impossible. But they still had to do their part.

David had to face Goliath. Joshua had to walk around the city walls. Naaman had to dip in the dirty Jordan 7 times. None of these things make any sense in the natural, but they believed God and acted.

Faith without corresponding works is dead.

Faith is what is needed. David had faith that God's power would give him victory over Goliath. Abraham and Sarah had faith that God would keep His promise to them.

Are you saying that the 'action' that Abraham and Sarah acted upon was having sexual intercourse?

What other 'action' was required besides their faith and belief?
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