One in Five Teachers Want the Return of the Cane..

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I'm surprised I missed this but the topic is being discussed on the One Show right now.

For more information see here.

Personally I'm with the 80% of my union who say no to the idea. All I recall at school was a distinct hatred for the cane and a resolve that I won't go down without a fight if ever I was sent to get one (though us girls were threatened with the slipper).

Sooooo, what are your views? Would you allow your child to be caned at school?

 

[Minty]

No...certainly not...I had a very shaky education myself...it wasn't school, it was the fact that when I was seven my Mum had a bad road traffic accident and as a result I spent most of my second year of junior school cutting out and rushing home to make sure that she was still alive, and had made it home from taking me to school (it set up a severe hatred of school that I was never able to shake off).

Anyway...I remember once when I got completely hysterical about not being able to get home and my headmistress actually slapped me hard across the face! Bear in mind this was 1982/83 and she had no right to touch me, let alone slap me. When I got home and Mum asked what the mark was on my face...lets just say she wasn't happy, and said to the headmistress that if she ever touched me again it would be the worst day of her life and she'd never teach again.

That hurt enough with just her hand, so I can't imagine what it would have felt like if she had had some kind of cane/birch that she could have smacked me with instead...and she would have, she was a vicious old lady...(ex-military, not that all ex-military are like that, but she was ).

I think that if anyone is to punish their children, it should be the parents.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Amen Minty. I've seen too many teachers who would cross over that very thin line of discipline and I believe there would be a fair few striking out in anger incidents.

Plus I'm not sure what I'd do if ever they brought this back in and my child came home saying a teacher slapped her.

The first scene in the Matrix with Trinity suspended in the air.....in slow motion...came to mind as to the kind of thing I'd do

 

[Judy02]

Lets just say I don't agree with bringing corporal punishment in schools back and leave it at that I have strong views about it, and my honest opinions might annoy some people...

80% of teachers not wanting to bring corporal punishment back is still pretty high though I think.

But yeah mintyangel that was terrible. You poor thing, it sounds like you had a lot to deal with from a very young age. And that headmistress should have considered herself very lucky she didn't instantly lose her job. If it had been another child, it could have beenn a very different story.

 

[Minty]

Thanks guys...and yeah, she was a real piece of work! If it happened today she'd have been sued and lost everything that she possessed...but anyway

I wonder how many of the 20% that said they were in favour of it work in the schools that have the toughest time in disciplining children. I know that some kids are just terrible...but I'm sure that adding violence to the mix would make the situation a whole lot worse

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I wonder how many of the 20% that said they were in favour of it work in the schools that have the toughest time in disciplining children. I know that some kids are just terrible...but I'm sure that adding violence to the mix would make the situation a whole lot worse

The one school where I spent 3 years at was challenging as far as the children goes but the senior management & parental involvement presence there was strong to where most of us wouldn't advocate caning. Granted I still left because it was exhausting to be on such an adrenaline rush all the time.

I would imagine the 20% may possibly work in an environment where the senior management structure on discipline is none existant etc and there is little to none parental support. I went to one school on supply and saw that all the deputy heads and the headteacher hid (literally) in their offices leaving the class teachers to fend for themselves. The students knew it and as a result they (the children) did and said what they wanted. It was awful. Now someone in that environment 24/7 might consider caning.

I also wonder whether they are the ones approaching retirement and who lament on the era when they were allowed to whack us kids.

 

[MarcusHill]

I woudn't approve of corporal punishment of anyone by anyone. As for "striking out in anger", one of the things I try to instil in my trainees is that if you get angry with a pupil or class, you've lost. Sometimes it's appropriate to feign anger, or claim you're angry, but the minute you start acting on your emotions rather than rationally, you're at the miscreants' level, and they've succeeded in "winding you up".

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I woudn't approve of corporal punishment of anyone by anyone. As for "striking out in anger", one of the things I try to instil in my trainees is that if you get angry with a pupil or class, you've lost. Sometimes it's appropriate to feign anger, or claim you're angry, but the minute you start acting on your emotions rather than rationally, you're at the miscreants' level, and they've succeeded in "winding you up".

I agree.

It's one thing to elevate one's voice it's another to shout angrily.

The kids know this too and it serves to add to their enjoyment.

 

[Judy02]

Sometimes it's appropriate to feign anger, or claim you're angry, but the minute you start acting on your emotions rather than rationally, you're at the miscreants' level, and they've succeeded in "winding you up".

Very good and wise words. I wish more parents shared your thoughts there.(even if it's not alway easy).

 

[Pogue]

I think it's a horrible idea. I'm against corporal punishment of children (and adults too, I guess) and whether it's teachers or parents, it harms far more than it helps. And I think a lot of people feel that way too- even parents who think smacking their child is OK would probably disagree with corporal punishment in schools on the basis that if anyone's going to hit their child, it should be them. Maybe quite shaky logic, but in any case I can't see the idea going down well with the public in general.

 

[ScottishJohn]

I think the cane is fine, as long as it is used on the parents...

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I think the cane is fine, as long as it is used on the parents...

 

[Caduceus]

Point taken - no one wants to return to an era when children were beaten, often for minor offences.

However, we now live in a society where in far too many cases the notion that 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' prevails amongst many children and adults. Amongst the young in particular there are no longer any societal rules about what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Young people are fed an almost continuous diet of violence, cruelty and degradation [viz: the recent episode involving two popular ‘comedians’ antics over prank phone calls to an elderly actor] yet we somehow expect children not to bully or intimidate other people. There is something of a contradiction here!

I regularly notice posters in schools proclaiming pupils' Rights but I rarely see any dealing with pupils' Responsibilities. Children need to understand that you can’t have one without the other.

The pendulum has swung too far in my opinion. Back in the 1960s and 70s schools could be authoritarian but now they have no real sanctions whatsoever. They are obliged to take in the most dysfunctional individuals because of 'Inclusion' and often teachers are themselves the victims of aggressive out-of-control parents. Even detentions have become a joke. If a parent wishes to prevent their offspring attending a detention – then the school is powerless to prevent them exercising their parental rights. As for exclusions these are a joke. What does an excluded child suffer? A few days off school – a chance to lie in, watch television, play on their PS, or in some cases, go out on to the streets to engage in petty theft and/or various other misdemeanours. Yes, school work is sent home - but no one can make the child do it.

I also believe that humiliation can work wonders on arrogant youngsters. The old adage – you don’t like it done to you so don’t do it to anyone else can be very effective and should be employed in certain cases. I also think a good hard smack across the face, would, in some situations, be highly effective for many of the aggressive, rude, conceited brats that teachers have to deal with every single day.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Point taken - no one wants to return to an era when children were beaten, often for minor offences.

However, we now live in a society where in far too many cases the notion that 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' prevails amongst many children and adults. Amongst the young in particular there are no longer any societal rules about what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Young people are fed an almost continuous diet of violence, cruelty and degradation [viz: the recent episode involving two popular ‘comedians’ antics over prank phone calls to an elderly actor] yet we somehow expect children not to bully or intimidate other people. There is something of a contradiction here!

I regularly notice posters in schools proclaiming pupils' Rights but I rarely see any dealing with pupils' Responsibilities. Children need to understand that you can’t have one without the other.

The pendulum has swung too far in my opinion. Back in the 1960s and 70s schools could be authoritarian but now they have no real sanctions whatsoever. They are obliged to take in the most dysfunctional individuals because of 'Inclusion' and often teachers are themselves the victims of aggressive out-of-control parents. Even detentions have become a joke. If a parent wishes to prevent their offspring attending a detention – then the school is powerless to prevent them exercising their parental rights. As for exclusions these are a joke. What does an excluded child suffer? A few days off school – a chance to lie in, watch television, play on their PS, or in some cases, go out on to the streets to engage in petty theft and/or various other misdemeanours. Yes, school work is sent home - but no one can make the child do it.

I also believe that humiliation can work wonders on arrogant youngsters. The old adage – you don’t like it done to you so don’t do it to anyone else can be very effective and should be employed in certain cases. I also think a good hard smack across the face, would, in some situations, be highly effective for many of the aggressive, rude, conceited brats that teachers have to deal with every single day.

From my experience though, I've found consistency in the communication of my expectations in the classroom to be the more successful tool. Granted you'll get the deviant who will not play ball, but from my experience such an individual wouldn't be willing to bend over and get a thrashing either.

My most recent little cherub from last year, was a 6ft 3" 15 year old who swore at me. I calmly said to him that I was not paid enough to be spoken to in that way, and I will no longer be prepared to help him with coursework in my own time. Now the crux came with senior management. In this school they didn't let such behaviour slide - he was drawn over the coals for it (suspension, parents involved etc). The end result was that he came to apologise and we had a chat and he accepted my expectation of him as a student. If the support from parents and senior management is not there, the kids know it and abuse it.

When I first get a class at the beginning of the course/year I would discuss with them (the 11-18 age group) the issue of acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. They tell me what they would consider as either, and I would share with them. We then agree a contract of behaviour which stays in my classroom for the duration of the academic year. They are also made aware of the consequences or sanctions which fall in line with the overall school ethos. If an individual chooses to go against that, the sanction is implemented. Because of the perception of the children being involved in the decision making process, they feel more obliged to uphold it.

I basically think that the cane would serve only to preach to the choir - those kids who are not an issue in the classroom. The other percentage (who some would argue deserve the cane) would go down fighting (as I recall when I was at school) and unfortunately their parents would probably join in the scrummage too.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

My old school had an on the site police officer who would politely remind the children about GBH assault laws and how quick it is to get a criminal record in the assemblies. If a kid chose to fight, bully/ harrass (use intimidating or threatening behaviour) each other or an adult up would pop this PC who again would ask them what they recalled from the assemblies . Only in extreme cases was it implemented but normally it was a deterrent. All of this together with close parental involvement tended to keep the kids in check.

 

[artybloke]

I don't believe in corporal punishment
.
.
.
.
...but a good execution at the beginning of term always works....

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I don't believe in corporal punishment
.
.
.
.
...but a good execution at the beginning of term always works....

Would that be the NQT's first day at work or senior management

 

[ukok]

if any teacher laid a hand or cane on either of my kids they'd better be prepared for me to lay a hand or a baseball bat on them.

 

[Caduceus]

if any teacher laid a hand or cane on either of my kids they'd better be prepared for me to lay a hand or a baseball bat on them.

Corporal punishmentwas banned in UK schools in 1987. I assume your comments as a parent were jocular but too many parents adopt such an attitude for the merest slight against their 'little angel'. A headteacher in Birmimgham had to temporarily employ bodyguards after a parent attacked her! Such behaviour by parents is hardly the best method of educating their kids!!!!!

 

[Judy02]

Such behaviour by parents is hardly the best method of educating their kids!!!!!

Neither is a teacher giving a child a 'good smack in the face' (your words) either to be fair.