Once Saved, Always Saved

[holyrokker]

I don't find the arguments in favor of "once saved always saved" to be sufficient to persuade me to accept it.

The pastors and deacons at my church believe in it.

Our difference of opinion on this topic does not prevent us from fellowship with, or prayer for each other. It also doesn't prevent me from being a Bible teacher at the church.

We need to be mature enough to disagree without dividing the Body of Christ.

 

[holyrokker]

Further study on the topic:
Paedobaptism - Covenant Infant Baptism

Thank you for that link on Paedobaptism!

 

[Thomas35]

I don't find the arguments in favor of "once saved always saved" to be sufficient to persuade me to accept it.

The pastors and deacons at my church believe in it.

Our difference of opinion on this topic does not prevent us from fellowship with, or prayer for each other. It also doesn't prevent me from being a Bible teacher at the church.

We need to be mature enough to disagree without dividing the Body of Christ.

Heres the danger in this doctrine. Lets say someone comes to a church that supports this osas doctrine. They hear the message of Jesus and accept it on faith. after six months they get caught up in the world again and think their okay and on there way to heaven.
The church will say they never were saved to begin with. But we can't reach them because of this man made doctrine.

If a person is lost you and not sure where they are with Jesus, you have a chance to bring them back. James 5:19 & 20.
If a person is lost and thinks their saved we can't reach them.

In Rev 3:16 Jesus talks about the lukewarm person. If a person is cold we can reach them, their open to the word. If their hot they are on fire for the Lord. If their lukewarm, they are on very dangerous ground. If we read the Word of God and stick to His Word we will see the truth.
Rev 3:1-5 we will see clearly what is our part. If we over come repent our name will not be blotted out of the book of life. The only way it can be blotted out is it had to be there first.
1 Tim 1:19, 4:1, 6:10, 6:21. All say we can wander from the faith. To wander from something means I had it first.

I was raised Baptist and I love the people, I have seen people come and go. I have brought people in and seen them leave and say their fine. My uncle passed away a year ago. He was baptized at young age and never went back and lived a very worldly life and said he was fine he had been baptized.

Its not about church doctrine its about a relationship with Jesus. He loves us so much He will never force us to stay. Jude 3 & 4 warns us of this doctrine.

God Bless

 

[FreeinChrist]

I am OSAS. As I see it, salvation is of God and He does the work of salvation. It is not at man's whim.

Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16 So then it {does} not {depend} on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Jhn 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
Jhn 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Jhn 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Jhn 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

Col 2:10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Col 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


Tts 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Tts 3:6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tts 3:7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of {God's own} possession, to the praise of His glory.
2Cr 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,
2Cr 1:22 who also sealed us and gave {us} the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge

GOD draw, grants, gives, forgives, cleanses, qualifies, perfects, writes His law on our hearts and in our minds, forgets our sin, seals with the Holy Spirit, makes us alive in Him, regenerates, renews, cancels the debt, establishes us in Christ, anoints us, pledges by giving us the Holy Spirit, He makes us heirs adopting us as sons.

It is His decision to accept us. I think He knows what He is doing…and knows all – as in if we have a faith that endure…or if we are having a momentary whim.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Heres the danger in this doctrine. Lets say someone comes to a church that supports this osas doctrine. They hear the message of Jesus and accept it on faith. after six months they get caught up in the world again and think their okay and on there way to heaven.
The church will say they never were saved to begin with. But we can't reach them because of this man made doctrine.

If a person is lost you and not sure where they are with Jesus, you have a chance to bring them back. James 5:19 & 20.
If a person is lost and thinks their saved we can't reach them.

I disagree, and have seen those who thought they were saved come to Christ later on in humility and in faith.

 

[JPPT1974]

Indeed they come in faith and in humbleness.

 

[MbiaJc]

I know I have asked about this before but it continues to confuse me. I currently do not believe in once saved, always saved although it is my understanding that most Baptists do believe in once saved, always saved. I am currently searching for the right church for me and am looking into the Baptist churches now. Could you all please post Bible verses and arguments in favor of once saved, always saved. Your help in getting me to understand once saved, always saved would be greatly appreciated.

Its like this you are saved by grace through faith. The grace of God and the faith of Jesus Christ. Now you didn't earn it or deserve it; it is a free gift of grace from God. You had nothing to do with getting it so how can you have something to do with loosing it. I was born to my natural father I carry his nome. I can not loose that birth or that name. Same with my heavenly Father1

 

[JacobHall86]

How can we lose what we never earned?

 

[Ave Maria]

How can we lose what we never earned?

You make a very good point. We did not earn salvation. It was a free gift to us. Therefore, we cannot lose it.

 

[Hammster]

Since the OP was wanting verses, here are a few:

Phil 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

John 6:39 “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

If you can lose it, it isn't eternal.

 

[Ave Maria]

Here are a couple of my favorite Bible verses that teach once saved always saved:

John 10:28 KJV And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 KJV My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

And one of my favorites:

Romans 8:38 KJV For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Romans 8:39 KJV Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Jude 1:24 KJV Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jude 1:25 KJV To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[eldermike]

There is not a single scripture/teaching that hints at a Christ that would come to give people a second chance at living holy, a possible eternal life based upon the "self". The very idea of eternal insecurity is a basic
struggle for control.
Want to help Jesus save you?: you will need self control, self discipline and a lot of self improvement. Notice the "self".
Self-control = self worship
self-discipline = self worship
self anything = legalism, lying, pride and failure.
self improvement = self worship
Let go, let God

If God did an incomplete work on you, take it up with Him. Baptist do not belive in eternal insecurity or a partial work of Jesus.

 

[novcncy]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned anything about an earnest payment....

 

[Hammster]

There is not a single scripture/teaching that hints at a Christ that would come to give people a second chance at living holy, a possible eternal life based upon the "self". The very idea of eternal insecurity is a basic
struggle for control.
Want to help Jesus save you?: you will need self control, self discipline and a lot of self improvement. Notice the "self".
Self-control = self worship
self-discipline = self worship
self anything = legalism, lying, pride and failure.
self improvement = self worship
Let go, let God

If God did an incomplete work on you, take it up with Him. Baptist do not belive in eternal insecurity or a partial work of Jesus.

While I agree that Baptists (SBC anyway) believe in eternal security, some of your other statements cause concern.

Self control is part of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22)

Self discipline is also Scriptural (Phil 1:12-13).

Being saved is really being born again. When we are born, we do nothing to grow except take in nourishment, and exercise. But there are things we need to learn, like talking, walking, our education, how to be good spouses, etc. But we don't 'make' ourselves grow.

When we are born again, we do nothing to grow except read God's word and practice obedience. But since there are commandments given, there are certain thing we must do (faith, being of itself, without works, is dead (James 2:17).

Some people will find a door jamb or a wall in their homes and as their children grow, they will make marks on the wall and record their heights. This isn't making them grow, it is just measuring their growth.

In a similar fashion, the Bible has things written in it to mark our growth (Gal 5:22, 23) but they don't make us grow. But we must continue to feed on the meat of God's word so that the Holy Spirit has something to work with.

Now to tie it back to the OP, if we are born again, we will grow. We don't need to keep getting born again, over and over. Just because we don't feed ourselves like we should doesn't mean that God abandons us.

 

[eldermike]

While I agree that Baptists (SBC anyway) believe in eternal security, some of your other statements cause concern.

Self control is part of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22)

Self discipline is also Scriptural (Phil 1:12-13).

Being saved is really being born again. When we are born, we do nothing to grow except take in nourishment, and exercise. But there are things we need to learn, like talking, walking, our education, how to be good spouses, etc. But we don't 'make' ourselves grow.

When we are born again, we do nothing to grow except read God's word and practice obedience. But since there are commandments given, there are certain thing we must do (faith, being of itself, without works, is dead (James 2:17).

Some people will find a door jamb or a wall in their homes and as their children grow, they will make marks on the wall and record their heights. This isn't making them grow, it is just measuring their growth.

In a similar fashion, the Bible has things written in it to mark our growth (Gal 5:22, 23) but they don't make us grow. But we must continue to feed on the meat of God's word so that the Holy Spirit has something to work with.

Now to tie it back to the OP, if we are born again, we will grow. We don't need to keep getting born again, over and over. Just because we don't feed ourselves like we should doesn't mean that God abandons us.

I think we agree.

OSNAS - self is flesh moving to please God.
OSAS - self is Spirit led and kept.

 

[Ave Maria]

There is not a single scripture/teaching that hints at a Christ that would come to give people a second chance at living holy, a possible eternal life based upon the "self". The very idea of eternal insecurity is a basic
struggle for control.
Want to help Jesus save you?: you will need self control, self discipline and a lot of self improvement. Notice the "self".
Self-control = self worship
self-discipline = self worship
self anything = legalism, lying, pride and failure.
self improvement = self worship
Let go, let God

If God did an incomplete work on you, take it up with Him. Baptist do not belive in eternal insecurity or a partial work of Jesus.

From what I understand, General Baptists do believe you can lose your salvation.

 

[MrJim]

Baptist do not belive in eternal insecurity or a partial work of Jesus.

...and here I am talking of joining the baptist church I've been attending for 3 years...

...but you know those American Baptist Churches aren't real staunch on their doctrinal statements regarding this.

I'm a conditional security dude, but if I'm told I was wrong on this subject in Heaven then that'll be ok too (bet there'll be a list...)

 

[LivingLifeHisWay]

When you are saved NOTHING can pluck you out of God's hand.

I think what you are questioning is.....can someone become saved and then go on living in sin without a care.

I would say that if someone who calls themselves a Christian can blantantly live a life dis-pleasing to God I would have to question their initial salvation. Were they truly saved to begin with?

When someone becomes saved the Holy Spirit dwells within them to guide and direct. The Holy Spirit will alert you if you do commit sin...repent and ask for forgiveness.

PM me if you would like to discuss this further.

 

[kirkmouse]

Hello All,



I am brand new to this forum but I am not new to Christianity. Here are a few thoughts that I hope will help.


Once Saved Always Saved - a Biblical doctrine.


Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he “shall” save his people from their sins.

The very reason that Christ came and died was to save his people from their sins. According to Gabriel, Jesus SHALL (not - may, not - might, not - hopes to, not - there is a possibility) save his people from their sins.

He is the Saviour, it is his responsibility to save, not mine.

******************

Joh 6:37-40 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1. Those that come to Jesus are a gift to him from the Father (37a)
2. Those that the Father gives “shall” come to Jesus. (37a)
3. Jesus will in “no wise” cast out those that come to him – (“no wise” means never, under any circumstances). (37b)
3. Jesus came to do his Father’s will. (38)
4. The Father’s will is that Jesus should lose none of those the Father gave him. (39a)
5. The Father’s will is that Jesus should raise those given on the last day. (39b)
6. The Father’s will is that all who believe on Jesus may have everlasting life (40a)
7. Jesus promise is that all who believe on him he will raise on the last day. (40b)

If anyone who believes in Jesus is ever lost, then Jesus failed to do his Father’s will.
That would mean that Jesus at best failed, and at worst sinned.
Jesus will never fail and will never, ever sin.
He “shall” save his people from their sins.

This is a great comfort to poor, pathetic sinner like me.

[FONT=&quot]See also John 17 – Jesus’ high priestly prayer.[/FONT]

 

[blessedpeace]

This is the problem when people start trying to say things the bible does not say. They will take verses out of context. Like salvation, they will say we possess it right now. No we don't. We have it through our faith only.

It like the word saved. We are saved, being saved and going to be saved it we continue in our faith in Jesus Christ.

A lot of people put the cart before the horse.
God wants us to be and feel secure in Him. We are as secure as we want to be. God has done everything for us. He loves us so much He sent His Son to PAY FOR ALL OUR SINS.
But God is not going to force us to stay will Him.

God wants our love for Him to grow. When people take the time to read the whole bible and build their relationship will Jesus through the Word of God, they will see how much God loves them.

When you build your faith on the Word of God nobody can shake it. I have every promise in the bible. All I have to do is continue my FAITH IN JESUS.

When we have a true relationship with Jesus we want to serve Him and get to know more about Him. The effort is worth it.

Most people have built their relationship with Jesus through a Preacher, Sunday School Teacher, a Parent, Friend or who ever. But they never build it through the Word of God. I don't care if the whole world quits following Christ. My faith is built on the Word of God not a church doctrine or some person. Jesus Christ laid the foundation for us to build on. If the person you learned about Jesus wander from the faith will you?

People will say their name is written in the Lambs Book Of Life and can never be taken out. This is why we must read the whole bible. Rev 3:5 This is about the lukewarm church, this is where a lot of Christians are today. This verse plainly says if we overcome our name will not be BLOTTED OUT of the book of life.

God Bless

thomas you and i are on the same page. you are the first true believer that i have seen on any of these christian forums.

like you, i don't stand on any church doctrine. when i want to know the truth, i go straight to God with my questions and He leads me to the answers. i don't reference other works. only God's word. there is so much false doctrine being taught today and people fall for it hook, line, and sinker just because the pastor/preacher/priest says it's so. they forget what God says on matters but go with the world's philosophies instead.

i thank God for the beautiful habit of daily bible reading. i have learned about things that i have never heard any preacher, anywhere, including Billy Graham, teach the truth about. and the truth is right there for those who have eyes to see, but yet the truth is rejected because the world's twisted philosophy is more comfortable.