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Old Testament saints were born again.
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ZacharyB
charismatic believer for 23 years
Yes, both good and fallen angels put thoughts into peoples' mindsPerhaps an easy way is to simply say that they KNEW what the Holy Spirit GAVE them to know... And this was given from within them... It was not primarily an external event, but an internal one... The external ones are normally angelic, and not the Angel of Great Council... iow God normally did not appear to them and sit down with them and talk TO them where they listened audibly with their ears... they listened instead inwardly with their minds...
The Holy Spirit was well known to the Jews - Elizabeth even, the mother of John the Baptist, was filled with the Holy Spirit... Inside, presumably - I didn't ask her...
So was Elizabeth Born-again?
from an external vantage point.
Note: Satan and his demons cannot read a human's thoughts!
IMO, some OT prophets did NOT know for sure
whether God's Spirit was inside or outside of them.
Just like Peter did not know what had happened @ Pentecost ...
he did not know that the 120 received the Holy Spirit both INSIDE (salvation)
and UPON (H.S. baptism, with the evidence of speaking in tongues).
Believe me, they really needed this baptism of anointing
for the work that Jesus was calling them to do, which was
preaching the gospel with many confirming signs and wonders.
These 120 were no ordinary bunch of believers like we have today!
They all had the baptism with the Holy Spirit (with spiritual power).
And it is available today for those who really desire to have it.
Just do the Matthew 7:7-11 and persistent widow thing!
Zach and Liz could easily be an exception to the rule ...
born-again before Jesus came and left, and before the Holy Spirit came.
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ZacharyB
charismatic believer for 23 years
IMO, it was possible for people in the OT
to be declared righteous by God ...
without having God's Spirit indwelling them.
God declared that the new covenant would be a new and better covenant.
This was because believers would be new creations
with the indwelling Holy Spirit, Who would lead them
and guide them into all righteousness.
There is NO comparison between OT saints and
NT saints who have had their sin nature removed
and have been thus enabled to live righteously.
Plus, they have God's Spirit inside to help them.
Only a very few OT saints were able to do this
without the indwelling Holy Spirit to help them.
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ZacharyB
charismatic believer for 23 years
No, dear friend, no shifting the focus elsewhere allowed!Jes' sayin!
Yer not Jes' sayin' what thou have been called to do
... which is to show the Scriptures where ordinary
OT believing folks had God's Spirit inside of them.
Yer not Jes' sayin' dem ... 'cause they just don't exist.
Please note: a couple of confused prophets don't count.
Jes' like el Pietro was confused about what
had happened on the Day of Pentecost ...
inside, outside, rightside, leftside, topside, bottomside, etc.
He had NO idea what had just happened ...
except that God's Spirit had been poured out like prophesied.
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This is a GREAT study....
What comes to mind for me is David, who spoke of God's Holy Spirit being within him....and asking God to not remove it from him:
"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." ~Psalm 55:11
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HeartThaw
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I would have to agree,
John 16:7
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
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HeartThaw
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There are other Spirits besides the Holy Spirit/ The Comforter brother Jason...
Isaiah 11:2
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
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ZacharyB
charismatic believer for 23 years
Yes, indeed, this is a mystery to me!
IMO, God's Spirit came upon OT believers
when they were called to prophesy, etc.
Now, if Peter was confused about where God's Spirit was
(inside, outside, etc.), why couldn't David also be confused?
Who can know such things without special revelation about it?
For example:
In John 14 ...
Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would be coming INSIDE
true believers (when they were born-again).
In Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4 ...
Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would be coming UPON
true believers (when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit
with the initial evidence/confirmation of speaking in tongues).
On the Day of Pentecost, the 120 received the Holy Spirit
BOTH inside them and upon them.
Confusing? ... As always, you'll just have to trust Scripture.
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- Jul 22, 2014
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I believe God is triune or a Trinity. The seven spirits of God I believe is in reference to different characteristics of God (Who is one God) that He shares with His people. The Lamb that was slain in Revelation had seven eyes; This was a symbolic picture of the seven different aspects of Christ or God. I believe OT saints dwelled with all three persons of the Godhead. For there is no other name under Heaven whereby men can be saved; And he that has the Son has the Father.
I also believe OT saints were born again spiritually, too.
The OT talks alot about the cirumcision of the heart (Which is an act done by both God and man).
...
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Re: David, what comes to mind for me is when he told God not to take His Holy Spirit from him.....
God's Spirit has ALWAYS been present.....since the very beginning when God's Spirit "brooded" over the waters....God's spirit is exactly what it is, God's "Spirit" and because it's HIS Spirit, it's "holy".
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HeartThaw
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Let's not go against scripture Jason ... Do you believe Jesus when He says something, yay or nay? ... He said the comforter couldn't come unless He go, ... You say, John the Baptist had it, pretty much calling Jesus a liar, why do that?
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- Jul 22, 2014
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It does not matter if John was the greatest or not. The fact of the matter is that John had the Holy Spirit (just like many others in the Old Testament). John was not an exception to the rule.
....
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There are other cases in Scripture where the Spirit later came upon others after having believed. A person believing in Jesus does not always equate with them receiving of the Holy Spirit right away. The disciples were no different. But please take note that Jesus said He would send to his disciples ANOTHER comforter. Who was the first Comforter? It was Jesus Christ living and abiding within His disciples. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).
22 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; "
(John 17:22-23).
...
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