Occupied Gaza like apartheid South Africa, says UN report

[ILOVJESUSTILHERESIGNS]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Arial] A UN human rights investigator has likened Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories to apartheid South Africa and says there should be "serious consideration" over bringing the occupation to the international court of justice.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2019547,00.html


I agree, Israeli terrorism should not only end but also punished.


[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Jonathan David]

... and yet Israel will continue to be supported by the USA, Canada, etc and will continue to do whatever it pleases. It's shameful.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Arial] A UN human rights investigator has likened Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories to apartheid South Africa and says there should be "serious consideration" over bringing the occupation to the international court of justice.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2019547,00.html


I agree, Israeli terrorism should not only end but also punished.

[/FONT][/FONT]

Although I believe Israel has committed excesses, let's not forget that the Palestinians had the chance under the agreement brokered by Clinton to get about 80% of their land back. All they had to do was agree to stop sacrificing Jews to Allah.

They refused.

 

[Bubbi]

A little historic research would go along way in understanding the current situation in Israel.

To start--the whole notion that there was ever a distinct peoples called Palestinians is an error. Nor can one occupy ones own homeland.

I have been to Israel during the intifada and what we hear and see on the news is not accurate.
For example--Israel is a democracy with a very large Arab population which enjoys all the benifits that come from lving in a democracy.

There was a suicide bombing right behind us as we left Jerusalem. I dont think we can judge when we do not live with daily attacks or with surrounding nations calling for our destruction.

I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with the Arabs living in refugee camps (camps their leaders choose to keep them in for political purpose) and your average Arab simply wants to work and raise their familys and live in peace with their neighbors.

In the late 1800's and early 1900's Israel was basically an abondoned desolate waist land given over to swamps except for a small Jewish population and Arab no-mads who managed to live rather well together.

Prior to Israel Statehood--Palestine was a term used to describe the land now called Israel and those that Lived there--both Jews and Arabs.
Bubbi

 

[onzaga]

i was absent from christian forums for quite awhile looking for somewhere to actually have a real back an forth discussion of subjects,only to discover after a year this forum has become what i was looking for.as for the israel,palistinian conflict.i feel like a flower child of the 60's who has long since stomped on the flower and is just pulling my hair out,screaming why?i am hoping just as we have all grown as we have become more connected,that through this (and other)keyboards sooner other than later we will overcome.

 

[ILOVJESUSTILHERESIGNS]

Although I believe Israel has committed excesses, let's not forget that the Palestinians had the chance under the agreement brokered by Clinton to get about 80% of their land back. All they had to do was agree to stop sacrificing Jews to Allah.

They refused.

I agree with the refusal...even Israeli peace organization had this to say:-
http://gush-shalom.org/generous/generous.html

 

[ILOVJESUSTILHERESIGNS]

A little historic research would go along way in understanding the current situation in Israel.

Correct my unhistorical research, but was there something called Israel from 1st century till 20th? If not, had there been any people living in the Holy Land during this time?

To start--the whole notion that there was ever a distinct peoples called Palestinians is an error. Nor can one occupy ones own homeland.

There is no such thing as a Palestinian people! I heard this "symphony" so many times. It just shows how bias some people are. In the same token, based on historical data, i could easily say that there was no Israeli nation ever in the history of mankind.
http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/1444

I have been to Israel during the intifada and what we hear and see on the news is not accurate.
For example--Israel is a democracy with a very large Arab population which enjoys all the benifits that come from lving in a democracy.

Israeli democracy? Israel is one of the most backward racist colonial terrorists states in modern times. The so called 'democracy' is built on the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

'Israeli democracy built on 1948 transfer'
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3367712,00.html

There was a suicide bombing right behind us as we left Jerusalem. I dont think we can judge when we do not live with daily attacks or with surrounding nations calling for our destruction.

Is the real problem suicide bombing or 50 years of ruthless Israeli occupation? You tell me?

I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with the Arabs living in refugee camps (camps their leaders choose to keep them in for political purpose) and your average Arab simply wants to work and raise their familys and live in peace with their neighbors.

True.

In the late 1800's and early 1900's Israel was basically an abondoned desolate waist land given over to swamps except for a small Jewish population and Arab no-mads who managed to live rather well together.

Zionists quotes that proves you wrong.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story707.html

And your propoganda is contradictory to what RABBI DR. CHAIM SIMONS has written:-

A Historical Survey of Proposals to Transfer Arabs from Palestine, 1895 - 1947 (notice the dates)
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7854/

Prior to Israel Statehood--Palestine was a term used to describe the land now called Israel and those that Lived there--both Jews and Arabs.
Bubbi

Palestine was a name used for 2000 years. No matter what you say, facts are facts. You can't change history to suit your own agenda!

BTW, Uri Avnery an Israeli writer just wrote a recent article called: Facing Mecca
His question was: Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of America to exist?
In the same way, one could also ask: Must a Native Palestinian recognize the right of Israel to exist?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17112.htm

Peace

 

[ILOVJESUSTILHERESIGNS]

... and yet Israel will continue to be supported by the USA, Canada, etc and will continue to do whatever it pleases. It's shameful.

You spoke the truth mate.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+2]U.S. financial aid to Israel supports apartheid, threatens world peace[/SIZE][/FONT]
http://www.thenorthwestern.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070213/OSH06/702130387/1189

 

[BibleMadeMeDoIt]

A little historic research would go along way in understanding the current situation in Israel.

After reading your post, I suggest you do a lot more research on the subject.

To start--the whole notion that there was ever a distinct peoples called Palestinians is an error. Nor can one occupy ones own homeland.

Yes there was and is a group of people called Palestinians, and we actually have historical evidence of these people.

Please stay away from Zionist websites.

I have been to Israel during the intifada and what we hear and see on the news is not accurate.

Yes, you are right, the news only gives Americans one side of the story, which is Pro-Israeli since it needs Americans to hate Arabs and Muslims to continue with their plans for the Middle East.

For example--Israel is a democracy with a very large Arab population which enjoys all the benifits that come from lving in a democracy.

Read this about the "benefits" they enjoy.
http://www.cnionline.org/learn/palestine/arab-israeli.htm

As for Democracy, I'm pretty sure the parents of young men and women forced into the Israeli military would disagree with you on that one.

There was a suicide bombing right behind us as we left Jerusalem.

When you push people to the point of breaking, which Israel has been doing since the day it was created, people tend to give up on life and seek a final solution to their pain while inflicting pain on others.

I dont think we can judge when we do not live with daily attacks or with surrounding nations calling for our destruction.

Agreed but not the way you may think. I refuse to judge Palestinians and any other people who fight for their rights or freedoms. But we do have a right to speak against a nation when it is obviously committing war crimes and has been doing so since the day it was created.

I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with the Arabs living in refugee camps (camps their leaders choose to keep them in for political purpose)

Interesting, their leaders choose to keep them there, thats the first time I heard that one.

I found a document on the CIA website that says something different about how Palestinians refugees came into existance. It's kind of hard to read but if you have patients you can read it too.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/browse_docs...ase_dec=RIPPUB&classification=U&showPage=0001

and your average Arab simply wants to work and raise their familys and live in peace with their neighbors.

Exactly, this is what they have been begging for since the Zionist movement began.

In the late 1800's and early 1900's Israel was basically an abondoned desolate waist land given over to swamps except for a small Jewish population and Arab no-mads who managed to live rather well together.

No, Israel did not exist in the late 1800's or early 1900's. Israel ceased to exist in 721 BCE. Palestine was not a waste land.

Population
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

Read through these links and educate yourself on Palestine prior to the creation of Israel.

http://www.zionism-israel.com/Balfour_Declaration_1917.htm

http://www.mideastweb.org/1922wp.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

http://www.foia.cia.gov/browse_docs...ase_dec=RIFPUB&classification=U&showPage=0001

 

[ILOVJESUSTILHERESIGNS]

Interesting links you got there BibleMadeMeDoIt, thanks.

 

[Bubbi]

I understand that revisionist history is alive and well these days but it does not change the facts. The land of Israel is Gods and it was given to the Hebrews some 3000 yrs ago.(1312BC)

Other nations conqured and ruled Israel but never completely eliminated Jews from the land.
The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to distance the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E derived from Israels enemy "the Philistines" who were of eastern european decent (sea people now extinct).

There has never been a Palestinian goverment, culture or state throughout History until the movement began in 1964 by Arafat who himself was Egyptian.
The word Palestine is not found in Arabic or has no meaning in Arabic while Arabic words all have a meaning--there is no P in Arabic and no where is it found in the Koran--why is that?

In fact--the Arabs of the time rejected the lable of Plalestinian--insisting Israel was part of greater Syria. Jordan laid the same claim--it is of interest to note that Jordan ruled most of Jerusalem inlcuding the Old city for 19 yrs before the 6 day war and never once made it their capital--why is that?

The Turks (Ottoman Empire) governed and neglected the land from the 1600's until the British ran them out in WW1.
Mark Twain wrote of his visit in 1867:
"A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country."

The Jews began to return in larger numbers in the late 1800's and began to drain swamps and reclaim the land. Arabs from surrounding countries also came for the new opportunities provided by this reclamation.

It should be noted that whatever Landowners there were at this time, however absent, sold their land to the returning Jews. In other words-- the Jews bought and paid for the land they developed.

It was the UN that offered the UN Partition Plan 181 on Nov. 29 1947 of which the Jews agreed and the Arabs did not.
War began with 7 Arab nations attacking tiny Israel of which they lost. This would be the 1948-49 war that led to the creation of the state of Israel. Out numbered and out gunned--Israel prevailed.

This leads to the so called "transfer" ---420,000 Arabs fled beleiving the Arab countries would succeed in driving the Jews "into the sea". What fails to get mentioned is the 860,000 Jews who were kicked out of the Arab countries they had lived in for centuries.

Those Arabs that chose to stay are todays Israeli Arabs. While you claim they dont benefit from Israeli democracy--I find that at odds with the article you linked about the transfer which was about the Israeli Arab govermet official who seems to be very free to claim everything he sees wrong with Israel. Odd isnt it???

The Arabs that fled are todays refugees??? Some 50 plus yrs later? Why? because there Arab countries refused to let them back in as they served a political purpose.

The palestinians are Jordanains, Syrians and Egyptians. The whole notion that there should even still be refugees is absurd.
There are 22 Arab countries with a 99 and a half % of all land mass in the middle east while Israel makes up one half of 1%.

They have no room for their brothers? Even if your claims be true--when people loose a war their are always refugees and they are usually absorbed by surrounding countries.

Certain Rabbis and orthodox Jews that conclude Israel should not be because their messiah has yet to return--can believe this all they like--my question to them is why are so many in Israel if they dont believe in her?

One last quote:In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.

I am open to any historical facts that can answer such questions like:
1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What were its borders?
3. What was its capital?
4. What were its major cities?
5. What constituted the basis of its economy?
6. What was its form of government?
7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
To name a few............

God Bless,
Bubbi

 

[Vylo]

1. It was a territory that has been in flux but under mulsim rules since at least the late 1200's
2. As such its border have been in constant flux as well.
3. Jerusalem has consistantly served as a capital city of the area.
4. Jerusalem, Jaffa, Hebron, Jericho, Nablus.
5. Palestine, as far as memory server me, was mainly an agricultural society along with nomadic herders.
6. Palestine was ruled over by various governments, but eventually was taken over by british mandate after WWI. When this mandate expired is when the conflict came to a head.

 

[soblessed53]

A little historic research would go along way in understanding the current situation in Israel.

To start--the whole notion that there was ever a distinct peoples called Palestinians is an error. Nor can one occupy ones own homeland.

I have been to Israel during the intifada and what we hear and see on the news is not accurate.
For example--Israel is a democracy with a very large Arab population which enjoys all the benifits that come from lving in a democracy.

There was a suicide bombing right behind us as we left Jerusalem. I dont think we can judge when we do not live with daily attacks or with surrounding nations calling for our destruction.

I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with the Arabs living in refugee camps (camps their leaders choose to keep them in for political purpose) and your average Arab simply wants to work and raise their familys and live in peace with their neighbors.

In the late 1800's and early 1900's Israel was basically an abondoned desolate waist land given over to swamps except for a small Jewish population and Arab no-mads who managed to live rather well together.

Prior to Israel Statehood--Palestine was a term used to describe the land now called Israel and those that Lived there--both Jews and Arabs.
Bubbi

Exactly Right! Excellent points. Some like to purposely omit the fact how many arabs are perfectly happy living in democratic Israel! BTW,you are also right on the money about "revisionist history"!

 

[ILOVJESUSTILHERESIGNS]

First, you need to excuse me for not answering all of your post. I just picked few of your cut and paste (because I have seen the same points made on the internet many times). Thats does mean that i don't see the flows in your other points.

I understand that revisionist history is alive and well these days but it does not change the facts. The land of Israel is Gods and it was given to the Hebrews some 3000 yrs ago.(1312BC)

The land was never an end per se.

'The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants.” Leviticus 25:23

When it comes to history, there were non Jews living in the land before there was something even called Israel. And non Jews remained in the land after God dispersed Israel. Canaan has always been inhabited from the dawn of history.

There has never been a Palestinian goverment, culture or state throughout History until the movement began in 1964 by Arafat who himself was Egyptian.

I don’t see your point? Many Israeli were born in Europe, and some even became prime ministers! So?

The word Palestine is not found in Arabic or has no meaning in Arabic while Arabic words all have a meaning--there is no P in Arabic and no where is it found in the Koran--why is that?

Is the Arabic or English word (Palestine) that is not found in Arabic? And what P are you talking about?

I am open to any historical facts that can answer such questions like:
1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What were its borders?
3. What was its capital?
4. What were its major cities?
5. What constituted the basis of its economy?
6. What was its form of government?
7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
To name a few............

God Bless,
Bubbi

You will find some of the answers here.

You should find the location of Palestine, Its costs, Its King ( and his name too) , boarders and a map of it at the end. Also, please pay a very very special attention to Zechariah 9:5




Palestine in the Bible!!!!


Just a simple search for the word “Philistine” in the popular King James Version of the Bible would render 295 entries, beginning with the two verses: (21:32, 21:34) in the book of Genesis: (chapter 21):[4]




Ge 21:34 -
And Abraham lived in Philistine countryfor a long time.


Notice: Palestine as a country or land is mentioned as far back as genesis!!!!!

Ex 15:14 The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina.


Notice: Palestine is mentioned while the Jews / Hebrews were still in the Land of Egypt, and many centuries before their attack on the local inhabitants of Palestine!!!! And the name of Palestine still continues to be mentioned and used in the Bible even after the Jewish colonization in Palestine!!!

Compare the above to your claim: The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to distance the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E derived from Israels enemy "the Philistines" who were of eastern european decent (sea people now extinct).
I think you need to refresh your history memory a bit.



Exodus 13:17
When Pharaoh finally let the people go, God did not lead them on the road that runs through Philistine territory, even though that was the shortest way from Egypt to the Promised Land. God said, "If the people are faced with a battle, they might change their minds and return to Egypt."


1Sa 6:1
The Ark of the LORD remained in Philistine territory seven months in all.

Ps 60:8 Moab is my washpot; over Edom will I cast out my shoe: Philistia, triumph thou because of me.


Ps 83:7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;


Ps 87:4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.


Ps 108:9 Moab is my washpot; over Edom will I cast out my shoe; over Philistia will I triumph.


Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.


Isa 14:31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.


Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;


Jer 25:20
along with all the foreigners living in that land. So did all the kings of the land of Uz and the kings of the Philistine cities of Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and what remains of Ashdod.

Am 6:2
Go over to Calneh and see what happened there. Then go to the great city of Hamath and on down to the Philistine city of Gath. You are no better than they were, and look at how they were destroyed.

Ob 1:19
"Then my people living in the Negev will occupy the mountains of Edom. Those living in the foothills of Judah will possess the Philistine plains and take over the fields of Ephraim and Samaria. And the people of Benjamin will occupy the land of Gilead.

Zep 2:4
Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron – these Philistine cities, too, will be rooted out and left in desolation

Zechariah Chapter 9
5 Ashkelon shall see it, and fear; Gaza also shall see it, and be very sorrowful, and Ekron; for her expectation shall be ashamed; and the king shall perish from Gaza, and Ashkelon shall not be inhabited.
6 And a bastard shall dwell in Ashdod, and I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.

Joel.3​

[4] Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? Will ye render me a recompence? And if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head. ​

Zechariah 9:5 -
Ashkelon shall see it, and fear; Gaza also shall see it, and be very sorrowful, and Ekron; for her expectation shall be ashamed; and the king shall perish from Gaza, and Ashkelon shall not be inhabited.

king shall perish from Gaza--Its government shall be overthrown. In literal fulfilment of this prophecy, after a two month's siege, Gaza was taken by Alexander, ten thousand of its inhabitants slain, and the rest sold as slaves. Betis the satrap, or petty "king," was bound to a chariot by thongs thrust through the soles of his feet, and dragged round the city.


http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/JamiesonFaussetBrown/jfb.cgi?book=zec&chapter=9#Zec9_5

Here is a map of Palestine in Ancient times.
http://www.goodnewschristianministry.org/image128.gif

 

[Bubbi]

Interesting that none of my questions have been answered.
In flux? I am sorry--I do not understand that.

Is there a suggestion here that the Arab Palestinians have a genetic connection to the philistines? Or Cannan?

There is no such connection if that is what your saying.
The name Palestine is not in the Bible via the original texts.

I will address the scriptures you used tomorrow as right now I have to dig out of two feet of snow.

But it is important to remember that God gave this land to the Hebrews. He allowed their dispersal with the promise of return. (a remanent of Jews have always lived in the land)

He has never anywhere taken back his promise to the Jews.
He did not leave the Arabs without either--he gave them little over 99 % of all land in the middle east.

Until tomorrow--have a blessed day.
Bubbi

 

[Vylo]

Interesting that none of my questions have been answered.
In flux? I am sorry--I do not understand that.

Is there a suggestion here that the Arab Palestinians have a genetic connection to the philistines? Or Cannan?

There is no such connection if that is what your saying.
The name Palestine is not in the Bible via the original texts.

I will address the scriptures you used tomorrow as right now I have to dig out of two feet of snow.

But it is important to remember that God gave this land to the Hebrews. He allowed their dispersal with the promise of return. (a remanent of Jews have always lived in the land)

He has never anywhere taken back his promise to the Jews.
He did not leave the Arabs without either--he gave them little over 99 % of all land in the middle east.

Until tomorrow--have a blessed day.
Bubbi

The supernatural should have no place in determining politics. Religious and anti-religious fervor have caused so many mass slaughters.

As for not understanding in flux, it is relatively simple. Those actually ruling over Israel/Palestine have changed many times, but arabs have been there since at least the 1300s. There was a sparse Jewish population there until Zionism rose and they started immigrating in mass, often illegally.

When it came time for there to be representation from Palestine, both the Arabs and Jewish people rejected it, because they didn't want the other side to have a voice in matters. Hence the all too true quote "There is not a reasonable person in Palestine".

 

[soblessed53]

Zechariah 2:8 "For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye."

Genesis 17:5,7-8 "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. {7} And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. {8} And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Psalms 105:8-11 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word [which] he commanded to a thousand generations.

Psa 105:9 Which [covenant] he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
Psa 105:10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, [and] to Israel [for] an everlasting covenant:
Psa 105:11 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance:

Romans 11:25-27-8 Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16 2Cr 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.
2Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away

 

[ILOVJESUSTILHERESIGNS]

But it is important to remember that God gave this land to the Hebrews. He allowed their dispersal with the promise of return. (a remanent of Jews have always lived in the land)

Hi Bubbi....i will address this point first, and i will respond to the rest of your post another time.

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews.


The Bible says they WOULD be dispersed into all nations,
The Bible then confirms they DID get dispersed into all nations.
The Bible says they would be gathered back FROM all nations.
The Bible then confirms they WERE gathered back from All nations.


All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to Israel were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

 

[Bubbi]

The supernatural should have no place in determining politics. Religious and anti-religious fervor have caused so many mass slaughters.

As for not understanding in flux, it is relatively simple. Those actually ruling over Israel/Palestine have changed many times, but arabs have been there since at least the 1300s. There was a sparse Jewish population there until Zionism rose and they started immigrating in mass, often illegally.

When it came time for there to be representation from Palestine, both the Arabs and Jewish people rejected it, because they didn't want the other side to have a voice in matters. Hence the all too true quote "There is not a reasonable person in Palestine".

Jews have been there for over 3000 yrs.
Yes--Israel has had many rulers.

586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon.(todays Iraq) Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain.
Over the next 500 yrs the Jews rebuilt their nation and the second temple.

Then in 70 C.E. (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn and the destruction of the second temple.

Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through. Ruled by the Hebrews [Jews], Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks and then the British.

None of these people are Palestinian--if these are the people you speak of then it only prooves the point that the current "Palestinians" are from Syria, Jordan and Iraqi.

Regardless--the Palestians have been offered their own state since 1948 but continue to refuse as they will not be happy until every Jew is dead or gone.

You mention that spirtuality should not be considered but yet as the very people you support will tell you--this conflict is steeped in the spiritual and religious. Their very goal is to take the land for Allah according to the Koran. They say as much--so not sure how this can be dismissed.

However, what I find of interest is the inability to anser my few questions to suuport the your claim. Going off in numerous directions is simply avoiding this topic.

So before we go off into another direction it is important to first establish the historical evidence of Palestine and a distinct peoples called Palestinians prior to 1948 or more accuratly--the 1960's.

Blessings
Bubbi

 

[Bubbi]

Hi Bubbi....i will address this point first, and i will respond to the rest of your post another time.

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews.


The Bible says they WOULD be dispersed into all nations,
The Bible then confirms they DID get dispersed into all nations.
The Bible says they would be gathered back FROM all nations.
The Bible then confirms they WERE gathered back from All nations.


All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to Israel were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.

I look forward to the scritptures backing this claim up and how you get around the rest of prophecy.
Blessings
Bubbi