OCA Statement: no mention of racism

[gzt]

"I'm not saying they're evil for failing to do so, but rather that we should be aware of our natural bias to filter out racism, not mention it, not address it. So the OCA dropped the ball."

This statement supports what I am saying. That is a judgment call that you nor anyone else can really make.

You are saying I condemn them and am accusing them of racism - I am doing no such thing. I am mildly disappointed but not surprised. Just as I am not terribly happy about what Archbishop Lazar says, but I am wary of calling him a heretic. I think I am perfectly within my rights to be mildly disappointed and to point this out. How else can things get better if they are not brought to light?

 

[GregConstantine]

Your expectation is unrealistic, plus, I think you are implying something by being dissatisfied with the omission of those words.

 

[GregConstantine]

By stating it in a different way.

 

[gzt]

How is this expectation, that a statement on an incident of racial violence should include some mention of race, unrealistic, given that several other organizations fulfilled my expectation? And, please, inform me what I am implying.

 

[Damaris]

Here's the statement from the Moscow Patriarchate's Department of External Church Relations. I guess Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev is also possessed of a natural bias to filter out racism.

https://mospat.ru/en/2015/06/19/news120282/

In his message to the Synod of Bishops of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, Metropolitan Hilarion, head of the Moscow Patriarchate department for external church relations (DECR), has expressed condolences over the death of people at the hands of a criminal who opened fire in a church in Charleston. Below is the text of the message.

Please accept my sincere condolences over the tragedy that happened at the Emanuel Parish of the African Methodist Episcopal Church in the city of Charleston, South Carolina, as a result of which the blood of innocent Christians was shed.

More and more frequently we become witnesses to criminal actions committed on the grounds of intolerance and pointing to the growth of strife and hate in the world. In this connection, one of the primary tasks facing those who confess the name of Christ is to assert the ideals of goodness and love of the neighbour in today’s society, as the Gospel calls us to do.

I am praying to the Lord for the repose of the souls of the dead and for the consolation of the bereaved relatives and friends.

With love in Christ,

Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk
Chairman of the Department for External Church Relations
Moscow Patriarchate​

 

[All4Christ]

I may not have the same experience with this, since my home was not in a situation with racial-related violence in the recent past; however, my understanding of how the Orthodox Church approaches things like this is focusing on the underlying problem. What is the underlying cause of racism? Hatred, and often violence. Likewise, there is hatred and violence in some protests (non-peaceful ones) against police forces. Hatred and violence is a universal way that sin enters this world. The whole situation is awful; I didn't take it, however, as them not being against racism, rather that they were following the general tendency of the Orthodox Church to focus on the reasons behind actions (hatred, violence) rather than how those sins are acted upon (racism in this case).

 

[gzt]

I'm not as concerned about expressions from outside the American milieu as they are not conditioned by the same forces ours are, neither do they have an American flock (at least, not substantially) who need to be addressed.

 

[buzuxi02]

I hope the families affected can find comfort in knowing their loved ones died a martyric death. Just like Judas was invited to the Lord's table to break bread with him and have fellowship, yet after more than an hour still betrayed the Word. Baptism by blood is a great mystery. I hope and pray the entire flock can take great solace that the whole sequence of events mimic the gospels. Christ asked, Can you drink the cup I will drink from? (Matt20.22) They answered with a resounding Yes.

 

[gzt]

I hope the families affected can find comfort in knowing their loved ones died a martyric death. Just like Judas was invited to the Lord's table to break bread with him and have fellowship, yet after more than an hour still betrayed the Word. Baptism by blood is a great mystery. I hope and pray the entire flock can take great solace that the whole sequence of events mimic the gospels. Christ asked, Can you drink the cup I will drink from? (Matt20.22) They answered with a resounding Yes.

The response of the families to this has been very inspiring - talking about love and forgiveness and praying for the young man who did this horrible deed.

 

[ArmyMatt]

my point was I don't understand why you would gripe about the lack of the use of racism in the OCA's statement on what happened in SC, and yet there was no mention of racism from the OCA's statement condemning the Armenian Genocide, and you did not, if memory serves, ask why the OCA did not use the term racism or militant Islam when condemning that atrocity.

and Greg, you are being a tad ridiculous. we know it was racially motivated because the killer said it was.

 

[GregConstantine]

"and Greg, you are being a tad ridiculous. we know it was racially motivated because the killer said it was."


You need to read what I wrote, you'd understand what I was saying if what I wrote was read, but alas, that is too much to ask from commentators here.

I never said it was not racially motivated.

 

[All4Christ]

"and Greg, you are being a tad ridiculous. we know it was racially motivated because the killer said it was."


You need to read what I wrote, you'd understand what I was saying if what I wrote was read, but alas, that is too much to ask from commentators here.

I never said it was not racially motivated.

Here is a quote of the relevant portion of your post:

I mean, really? Do you know for sure racism is involved? Do you know the guy who did the shooting? Are you clairvoyant? I mean, maybe racism is involved, maybe not.

You ask if we know for sure racism is involved. No, we (as far as I know) do not know the person, but there is significant evidence pointing to that conclusion, including comments by the shooter saying he wanted to start a race war. It seems much more likely that it is a racially motivated crime.

Your post's tone appears to make light of anyone's claim that it is racially motivated. Comments such as "I mean, really?...are you clairvoyant?" give this impression.

And yes, I have read your post carefully several times. I know you didn't preclude racism as the cause. For the record, I don't necessarily disagree with you on some of your points regarding the OCA comments. I'm just referring to this comment in specific.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think everyone is jumping on gzt a little hard; while I'm not the type of guy to jump on the race card bandwagon, this was a racially-motivated crime. It wasn't someone out to kill Christians, it was someone out to kill black Christians. The kid, Dylan Roof, has a history of obsession with killing African-Americans. His classmates and friends say he's into confederate nonsense and segregation and race war junk. He has posted it online and spread it in conversations.

It might've been better if OCA had mentioned the racial element and denounced it, like Gzt said. I'm not saying they're sinning or failing or showing lousy leadership. I just wish they had included it as one of the many unacceptable sins this young man perpetrated. It's not just murder, it's racially-motivated intolerance.

 

[All4Christ]

I think everyone is jumping on gzt a little hard; while I'm not the type of guy to jump on the race card bandwagon, this was a racially-motivated crime. It wasn't someone out to kill Christians, it was someone out to kill black Christians. The kid, Dylan Roof, has a history of obsession with killing African-Americans. His classmates and friends say he's into confederate nonsense and segregation and race war junk. He has posted it online and spread it in conversations.

It might've been better if OCA had mentioned the racial element and denounced it, like Gzt said. I'm not saying they're sinning or failing or showing lousy leadership. I just wish they had included it as one of the many unacceptable sins this young man perpetrated. It's not just murder, it's racially-motivated intolerance.

I agree that it was racially motivated, and it wouldn't hurt for them to have included racism. I just don't think that the OCA was intentionally avoiding that phrase, and I think it is following the same pattern of other statements they have made regarding racial related crimes. Perhaps it was poorly worded, though it is consistent with past statements.

This was a horrific crime, and we all should be praying for the families...myself included. It is amazing to me how forgiving families can be when things like this happen. Puts me to shame with my reactions to many things.

 

[gzt]

I'm definitely not saying it was an intentional exclusion in the sense that they consciously decided, "No, we're not going to mention racism, that wouldn't play well with our racists." It's an unintentional blindness and we need to notice and be aware of it.

As for the Armenian Genocide: first, acknowledging it as genocide is already a transgressive act, as it is not "officially" recognized as such by many. Second, genocide is intrinsically racist, and I don't think anybody calling something genocide fails to recognize that it's racist, nor does anybody hearing that it's genocide fail to think of the racist element. I'm still not sure why this is in any way comparable.

With this incident, however, there was considerable conversation in the media that completely neglected the racial element of the crime and, generally, white people are reticent to admit that racism is a problem in America today and have an unintentional bias against recognizing things as racism. As such, as the OCA is exercising moral leadership in this country, it is helpful to remind people tha racism is a sin, it is here in America today, and this was an example of it. I'm not saying this is a big disappointment, and it's probably the case that Jillions will have a reflection at some point about it that will be very good, but this is a minor missed opportunity and just something to notice.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Exactly. Agree 100%. I don't think OCA was intentionally not giving a dang about the racial aspect, they just did a poor job in getting out the word. They could've done better. In that regard I agree with gzt.

I agree that it was racially motivated, and it wouldn't hurt for them to have included racism. I just don't think that the OCA was intentionally avoiding that phrase, and I think it is following the same pattern of other statements they have made regarding racial related crimes. Perhaps it was poorly worded, though it is consistent with past statements.

This was a horrific crime, and we all should be praying for the families...myself included. It is amazing to me how forgiving families can be when things like this happen. Puts me to shame with my reactions to many things.

 

[ArmyMatt]

you said this in your little hall of fame hissy against gzt:

Do you know for sure racism is involved? Do you know the guy who did the shooting? Are you clairvoyant? I mean, maybe racism is involved, maybe not.

and then this:

You need to read what I wrote, you'd understand what I was saying if what I wrote was read, but alas, that is too much to ask from commentators here.

I never said it was not racially motivated.

so yeah, I did read what you wrote, ALL of what you wrote. I merely pointed out that if you paid attention to the news, you would know that racism WAS involved, and your first little rant is unneeded.

 

[ArmyMatt]

As for the Armenian Genocide: first, acknowledging it as genocide is already a transgressive act, as it is not "officially" recognized as such by many. Second, genocide is intrinsically racist, and I don't think anybody calling something genocide fails to recognize that it's racist, nor does anybody hearing that it's genocide fail to think of the racist element. I'm still not sure why this is in any way comparable.

yeah, that was a bad example to bring up, so my bad for that. I didn't mean to seem like I was jumping down your throat gzt, I guess it just struck me that racist things have happened, our Synods have offered prayers without mentioning the motivation, and most just add their prayers.

but yeah, that was a pretty poor example

 

[Joseph Hazen]

It's a tough line to walk. Racism is a huge problem in our country and The Church ought to address it. At the same time however, with race-relations at such a tension right now some are sick of hearing about it and would turn away at the mention of racism, casting The Church in with a certain lot, in their minds. Furthermore those who really need to hear the message go deaf as soon as it's brought up. The Church is put into a very delicate position in trying to remind the world of her sins but to do so in a way that those who need the reminding don't shut her out because of preconceived ideas of what a church is doing when it starts discussing racism.

Our own problems with phyletism don't really give us a very solid foot to stand on when decrying racism either.

Personally I might've also liked to see an outright condemnation, but with current events as they are it's difficult to do so without aligning oneself with other ideologies in the popular consciousness.

 

[gzt]

Yes, aligning with "not fascism" has high costs.