Noah's Ark and the Cheetah

[The Cadet]

Cheetahs. Fastest land animal, symbol of the African Savannah, product of extreme incest.

Let's back up a bit.

Cheetahs have extremely minuscule genetic diversity. You can perform skin grafts between two Cheetahs with virtually no fear of rejection. It's as if they were all very closely related - indeed, there's virtually no difference between an inbred cheetah and a cheetah with unrelated parents. Their genetic variability is almost non-existent. This is not a good thing - it leads to massive infant mortality rates, high morbidity rates from diseases, and many other serious problems.

This genetic diversity was caused by a population bottleneck some 10,000 years ago. The Cheetah species almost went extinct, but bounced back. However, this "bounce back" took a massive toll on the genetic diversity of the species, as the ended up horribly inbred with almost no diversity to speak of.

So here's the problem.

If almost every mammalian species on earth was culled down to 2 members a mere 4000 years ago, why does only the Cheetah (and the southern elephant seal, and a handful of others) show this sort of lack of diversity? Why does one population seem entirely inbred, while another shows the sort of genetic diversity which, according to everything we know about evolution and the conservation rates of certain parts of the genome, should be blatantly impossible from 2 individuals in 4000 years?

Relevant video:

 

[LionL]

If almost every mammalian species on earth was culled down to 2 members a mere 4000 years ago, why does only the Cheetah (and the southern elephant seal, and a handful of others) show this sort of lack of diversity?

The only sensible conclusion is that the story of Noah is not true.
Maybe it's metaphorical or maybe it's just myth.

 

[Armoured]

And how did the koalas get from a mountain in Turkey to Australia?

 

[AV1611VET]

Relevant video:

This video is so full of wrong, I don't know where to begin.

Well, yes I do: it rules God out of the picture (after the Flood).

Notice before the Flood, the narrator talks about God doing this and that, but after the Flood, God suddenly seems to be on vacation or something.

I'll address two issues that this narrator says creationists can't address:

1. How all the species got on the Ark.

Simple: if God created the Ark as a TARDIS booth, then the Ark could have handled ten thousand times the number of animals that boarded it.

Assuming God didn't create the Ark as a TARDIS booth ... fine.

The TARDIS booth explanation shows just one way creationists can claim GOD DID IT.

After all, if I can come up with a TARDIS booth explanation, then think what God can come up with.

2. The genetic diversity problem after the Flood.

Remember now: the narrator seems to have depicted God as suddenly going dormant here.

But was He really?

Didn't God bless Noah and his family with some kind of fertility blessing?

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

And if you think God hasn't handled genetic variability in the past ... think again.

Genesis 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

All this video was created to do was one thing: mock God.

 

[Armoured]

No mention of flying clams? I has a disappointment

 

[AV1611VET]

The only sensible conclusion is that the story of Noah is not true.

Since I'm a believer in God, not religion, I can claim GOD DID IT.

I don't have to assume it was allegorical.

Jeremiah 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Notice God's word choice: "the God of all flesh"?

Seems appropriate in a thread on genetic diversity (or bottleneck), doesn't it?

 

[SteveB28]

Plenty of magic.

 

[AV1611VET]

No mention of flying clams? I has a disappointment

Since the narrator brought God into the picture to claim GOD DID IT -- before the Flood, that is -- I'll do the same thing he did, with emphasis on after the Flood.

Your kolalas-edited-to-clams could have gotten to their respective ecological niches by simply stepping through the door of the Ark into the outside world and being teleported there.

Teleported!?

Yes, teleported.

Does Acts 8 come to mind?

 

[Armoured]

Since the narrator brought God into the picture to claim GOD DID IT -- before the Flood, that is -- I'll do the same he did, with emphasis on after the Flood.

Your kolalas-edited-to-clams could have gotten to their respective ecological niches by simply stepping through the door of the Ark into the outside world and being teleported there.

Teleported!?

Yes, teleported.

Does Acts 8 come to mind?

I edited nothing. I understand the difference between teleporting koalas and flying clams.

Do you sincerely not understand how invoking teleportation raises more questions than it answers?

 

[AV1611VET]

Plenty of magic.

God is in the miracle-working business.

That's why scientists can't explain anything that went on in the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you sincerely not understand how invoking teleportation raises more questions than it answers?

I sure do.

And anytime you want them answered, feel free to ask me.

I'm not as misinformed as the narrator of that video is.

And I'll be more than happy to invite God into the picture both before and after the Flood.

 

[Armoured]

And anytime you want them answered, feel free to ask me.
.

Ah, but will you answer?

OK. So, if God was prepared to intervene so directly as to teleport various species about the place, why bother with the whole Flood/Ark schtick in the first place? Surely there are simpler, less less arbitrary methods of dealing with the problem for a being willing to exert that level of power, with that level of involvement and finesse?

 

[AV1611VET]

... why bother with the whole Flood/Ark schtick in the first place?

Judge's choice.

And it was no "bother" at all.

Had you asked the question properly, that is:

Why did God choose ...

You probably would not have even bothered asking.

 

[Armoured]

Judge's choice.

And it was no "bother" at all.

Had you asked the question properly, that is:


You probably would not have even bothered asking.

So no, you won't answer. As I suspected. Oh well, back to flying clam and teleporting koala comments it is.

 

[AV1611VET]

So no, you won't answer. As I suspected. Oh well, back to flying clam and teleporting koala comments it is.

Desperate to change the subject, are you?

Getting the focus off the OP?

Maybe the narrator will come here and give you brownie points for it?

Assuming he isn't here already.

Or maybe you work for him?

 

[Armoured]

Desperate to change the subject, are you?

Getting the focus off the OP?

Maybe the narrator will come here and give you brownie points for it?

Assuming he isn't here already.

Or maybe you work for him?

You said "And anytime you want them answered, feel free to ask me" I took you at your word, and asked you a legitimate question in good faith, only to have you revert to your standard tactic of oblique reply and obfuscation.

 

[Armoured]

So, on a completely unrelated note, anyone checkout the new ignore feature? It's GREAT!

 

[SteveB28]

God is in the miracle-working business.

That's why scientists can't explain anything that went on in the Bible.

How convenient for you.

Don't understand something? Just click your fingers and 'hey presto' - instant solution.

Explains nothing.

 

[AV1611VET]

How convenient for you.

It is, isn't it?

God did all the work, and some narrator wants to invoke science to tear it down.

Don't understand something? Just click your fingers and 'hey presto' - instant solution.

No -- you don't understand.

I understand it perfectly.

Explains nothing.

Then why did the narrarator start out with GOD DID IT?

If he can invoke God, so can I.

If he can invoke GOD DID IT, so can I.

His problem is though, he only went halfway and depicted God before the Flood.

I didn't.

 

[SteveB28]

It is, isn't it?

God did all the work, and some narrator wants to invoke science to tear it down.


No -- you don't understand.

I understand it perfectly.


Then why did the narrarator start out with GOD DID IT?

If he can invoke God, so can I.

If he can invoke GOD DID IT, so can I.

His problem is though, he only went halfway and depicted God before the Flood.

I didn't.

So silly. Why did the narrator start with "My name is Queequeg" in an equally fictitious story?