no one has ever seen God?

[purity2holiness]

Hello!

John 1:18 " No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him"

and

Exodus 24:9-10 " 9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself"


Is John 1:18 saying the truth? has no one seen God really? who did these seventy elders see then? how should we read and understand the Bible? because if what John has stated here comes to be found as (not "very" true), what should we think of the Bible writers? unless the "God of Israel" is not the God Creator of Genesis(after all, he inherited Israel from the Most High...see Deteuronomy 32:9)

 

[Freepeople]

I must say I have problem understanding this too.It cannot be two Gods,but Bible is very contradictor about this thing.

 

[Jeffersonian]

I want to share with you this commentary on John 1:18 by Dr. Constable :

There are many passages of Scripture that record various individuals
seeing God (e.g., Exod. 33:21-23; Isa. 6:1-5; Rev. 1:10-18). Those
instances involved visions, theophanies, or anthropomorphic
representations of God rather than encounters with His unveiled spiritual
essence (cf. Exod. 33:20-23; Deut. 4:12; Ps. 97:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; 6:16; 1
John 4:12). The way we know what God is like is not by viewing His
essence. No one can do that and live. God has sent His unique and only
Son (monogenous, cf. v. 14) from His own most intimate presence to
reveal God to humankind

"In the bosom of is a Hebrew idiom expressing the intimate
relationship of child and parent, and of friend and friend
(cf. xiii. 23).

In the system that Moses inaugurated, no one could "see" God, but Jesus
has revealed Him now to everyone. Note also that John called Jesus God
here again. Though some ancient manuscripts read "Son" instead of
"God," the correct reading seems clearly to be "God."
Jesus "explained" (NASB) God in the sense of revealing Him. The Greek
word is exegesato from which we get "exegete." The Son has exegeted
(i.e., explained, interpreted, or narrated) the Father to humankind. The
reference to Jesus being in the bosom of the Father softens and brings
affection to the idea of Jesus exegeting the Father. The nature of God is in
view here, not His external appearance.

"God is invisible, not because he is unreal, but because
physical eyes are incapable of detecting him. The infrared
and ultraviolet rays of the light spectrum are invisible
because the human eye is not sensitive enough to register
them. However, photographic plates or a spectroscope can
make them visible to us. Deity as a being is consequently
known only through spiritual means that are able to receive
its (his) communications."

John ended his prologue as he began it, with a reference to Jesus' deity.
He began by
saying the Word was with God (v. 1), and he concluded by saying that He was at the
Father's side. This indicates the intimate fellowship, love, and knowledge that the Father
and the Son shared. It also gives us confidence that the revelation of the Father that Jesus
revealed is accurate. John's main point in this prologue was that Jesus is the ultimate
revealer of God.

". . . John in his use of Logos is cutting clean across one of the
fundamental Greek ideas. The Greeks thought of the gods as detached
from the world, as regarding its struggles and heartaches and joys and
fears with serene divine lack of feeling. John's idea of the Logos conveys
exactly the opposite idea. John's Logos does not show us a God who is
serenely detached, but a God who is passionately involved.

 

[LantanaAnna]

Purity, I think we need to understand that the Bible can have mistakes in it. It has been copied so many times through the ages.

Moses spoke to God ,face to face , as a man speaketh to a friend.

 

[krugerpark]

are you serious

scholars have verified the bible that we have to over 99% accuracy...

of course people don't understand that it was written in a different language, translate anything and you'll be making changes to it.

 

[Gozreht]

I am pretty sure there is no contradiction here (or anywhere) but you have to look at the bigger picture. Moses "saw" God in a burning bush. The elders may have "seen" God but noticed it says there appeared to be sapphire. They didn't see what God really looks like. No one knows what God really looks like. They mat have seen images. They may have seen a presence. And they knew it was God. Moses even spoke to face to face but God is spiritual. They may have seen a man's face. I don't think our human eyes could handle the brilliance or majesty of God's real "face". So don't fret over this too much. There is no contradiction.

 

[krugerpark]

so spiritual doesn't mean real?

 

[truefiction1]

We see not God Himself in all of His totality, which is infinite, but rather we see His uncreated energy, which is the Divine Light (like what the disciples say on Mt tabor). So we both can and cannot see Him at the same time. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God".

 

[Gozreht]

Truefiction said it nicely Krugerpark but I will expand. Do not get caught up with semantics. Spiritual is actually the real thing. It's our physical world that is temporary and "fake" if you will. We can not behold the true nature or presence of God. Jesus came as a man. If He came as God like He will the next time the earth would not sustain Him. The situation was real. The feeling was real. As in our physical world but not real as in what will be in our future.

 

[TruthAlwaysTold]

I must say I have problem understanding this too.It cannot be two Gods,but Bible is very contradictor about this thing.

Yes my friend.

Learn the Bible. Learn how you should interpret it, who wrote it, and more importantly what your role is in humanity. Seek truth and you will find it. You will find belief in God when you find answers to the questions you ask. You will find answers. It might take you years from now. But search and you will find him.

youtube.com/watch?v=UKIpOtWvWJc

 

[OliverC]

so spiritual doesn't mean real?

Hello Kruger
The spirit is real, it is even more "real" than the flesh:

Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

 

[krugerpark]

Truefiction said it nicely Krugerpark but I will expand. Do not get caught up with semantics. Spiritual is actually the real thing. It's our physical world that is temporary and "fake" if you will. We can not behold the true nature or presence of God. Jesus came as a man. If He came as God like He will the next time the earth would not sustain Him. The situation was real. The feeling was real. As in our physical world but not real as in what will be in our future.

semantics can be important because at the end of the day they are fairly simple. But I agree with what you said.

 

[TruthAlwaysTold]

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

The statement above says that if they do not have the Spirit, they don't belong to Christ.

Christians should always keep that in mind. Atheism/Paganism is nothing new. They are a separate type of people who don't belong with us. That is some of the 'not talked about' theme that is consistent through the bible.

As this point in time, Christians need to understand this and that their role is not to spread multiculturalism and convert the world to our ways. That is the goal of Secular Humanism and results in war.

God does not want this. We are a peoples. A chosen people who should be together. People may come if they have the spirit. We are declining in population and have handed power of over our lives to Atheists and Secular Humanists.

The time is coming. Circumcision banning is around the corner. That is the sign we no longer have religion. We turn into 'animals' at that point.

It's frustrating because quotes like above are all through the bible and people just skim past it, or use it for the wrong reason. The passage wasn't meant to talk about if it's tangible and exists. It means much more. And this is the message that is completely lost unfortunately.

 

[OliverC]

We should not fear, God is aware of each man's mind and heart. Where there is lack of religion it is there that God will deliver His grace.

 

[LantanaAnna]

Jesus is the express image of the Father. He can do nothing the Father has not done.

You know, when the Bible says someone saw someone else, I tend to take it literally.'I know we don't understand many things, but I understand that the Father has a body and a spirit, just like Jesus, just like me, just like you.

 

[dysert]

I must say I have problem understanding this too.It cannot be two Gods,but Bible is very contradictor about this thing.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I've been a student and teacher of the Bible for dozens of years, and I've never come across a true contradiction. For things that appear to be contradictory, it may take more study, or it just may mean that we don't understand something. But to say there are contradictions is a mistake.

Purity, I think we need to understand that the Bible can have mistakes in it. It has been copied so many times through the ages.

The good translations of today are excellent approximations of the original text. There may be a few "typos" that entered the copying stream, but there are certainly no mistakes of any significance in today's good translations.

You know, when the Bible says someone saw someone else, I tend to take it literally.'I know we don't understand many things, but I understand that the Father has a body and a spirit, just like Jesus, just like me, just like you.

I tend to take the Bible literally, too. Where do you get the notion that the Father has a body and a spirit? The Bible says that God *is* spirit (John 4:24), and when it talks about the Spirit of God it's talking about the Holy Spirit.

Here are all the things the Bible says that God is:
- A consuming fire (Deu_4:24; Heb_12:29)
- Sun and shield (Psa_84:11)
- Spirit (Joh_4:24)
- Light (1Jn_1:5)
- Love (1Jn_4:16)

He is also invisible (Col. 1:15; 1 Tim. 1:17).

Obviously, when trying to experience the transcendent God with our physical senses, some anthropomorphism must be involved. So when Deuteronomy says that they saw God, what they saw was some sort of physical manifestation of God (e.g., like what Moses saw in the burning bush, or what the Israelites saw in the pillar of fire and the pillar of cloud, etc.). No one on this side of the grave can see God as He truly is because He is invisible to us. We'll only be able to see Him "for real" when we get to heaven.

 

[Gozreht]

Jesus is the express image of the Father. He can do nothing the Father has not done.

You know, when the Bible says someone saw someone else, I tend to take it literally.'I know we don't understand many things, but I understand that the Father has a body and a spirit, just like Jesus, just like me, just like you.

Well He may have these things but not like we do. If they had flesh then they would have a sinful nature. Jesus lowered Himself when He came here to be like us in the flesh. So if someone saw His face here on earth it probably was not His real face. And I take the Word as literal a possible too.

 

[Rubiks]

Didn't Adam and Eve physically see God before the fall?

 

[dysert]

Didn't Adam and Eve physically see God before the fall?

It doesn't say they did.

I look at it this way. God is transcendent, immortal, eternal, omnipresent. He is spirit. We, otoh, are earthly, mortal, limited. We have bodies. We only know of God as He reveals Himself to our senses, which are also earthly & limited. There's no way a creature like a human could fully experience the Creator. Inasmuch as someone may have "seen" Him, they've merely seen a physical manifestation He provided. Only when these physical limitations have been removed will we be able to see Him as He is.

 

[toolite]

yes there are individuals that have been before the throne but never saw God's face nor will you see an Angel's Face in their Angelic form. Quite interesting..

Glory To God