No Compulsion or Not.

[dharmablues]

According to the Quran, God does not force anyone to convert into Islam.

Quran 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]

According to the Hadith, Muhammad ordered the execution of those who leave Islam.

So which one is it, no compulsion or either you stay in Islam or die?

 

[Adeeb]

According to the Quran, God does not force anyone to convert into Islam.

Quran 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

According to the Hadith, Muhammad ordered the execution of those who leave Islam.

So which one is it, no compulsion or either you stay in Islam or die?

no one can be forced into Islam. If you are not Muslim, you cannot be forced to accept Islam. If you are already a Muslim and have the truth, then in an Islamic state the punishment for apostasy is death. This is the majority view of all the major scholars of the past and present. There have been some scholars who placed conditions on the penalty, such as physically taking up arms against the Muslims or joining a hostile enemy. Some modern muslims have completely rejected this law, arguing that the hadith is weak and not authentic based on what they see as contradictions. Among the major hadith scholars, there has never been any doubt about its authenticity.

 

[Osiris]

If you are already a Muslim and have the truth, then in an Islamic state the punishment for apostasy is death.

Wait, because you have the truth(which causes you leave the faith and become an atheist) you will be punished with death?

But on a serious note... I thought that some of the muslims on here said that those that leave islam, are not really muslims anyways. So, it seems as though there is never any 'real' muslim leaving islam. There surely shouldn't be any law for apostasy then.

 

[dharmablues]

If you are already a Muslim and have the truth, then in an Islamic state the punishment for apostasy is death.

So if an apostate is better off dead, then why not kill all non-Muslims. According to Islamic faith, wouldn't that be common sense.

 

[Adeeb]

Wait, because you have the truth(which causes you leave the faith and become an atheist) you will be punished with death?

But on a serious note... I thought that some of the muslims on here said that those that leave islam, are not really muslims anyways. So, it seems as though there is never any 'real' muslim leaving islam. There surely shouldn't be any law for apostasy then.

they had the truth, but they left it for whatever reason. Therefore there is no point in them living. Non-muslims do not have the truth but they can still find the truth, but if the you already had the truth and turned it away then you do not deserve to live.

Those who leave Islam generally were muslims by name only, but they did not know Islam really. So they leave Islam without ever really knowing it. Either way, they are provided with all the answers to their questions and misunderstandings that caused them to leave before they can be executed.

 

[Adeeb]

So if an apostate is better off dead, then why not kill all non-Muslims. According to Islamic faith, wouldn't that be common sense.

no, Non-muslims can still become Muslim and find the truth as opposed to someone who is already Muslim and leaves.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

But on a serious note... I thought that some of the muslims on here said that those that leave islam, are not really muslims anyways. So, it seems as though there is never any 'real' muslim leaving islam. There surely shouldn't be any law for apostasy then.

WOW! Seriously there are no bounds to a person who uses logic as a weapon, only answer to this is; mmmm, ummmmm, hmmmmmffff.... pffffft...

Dude, could you possibly become another Clive Staples Lewis? Respect

 

[dharmablues]

no, Non-muslims can still become Muslim and find the truth as opposed to someone who is already Muslim and leaves.

And does Allah already know beforehand whether a non-muslim will become a muslim one day? If Allah told you that such and such a person will never become a Muslim, and so asks you to kill them, then would you obey this command now that you know they are better off dead.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

According to the Quran, God does not force anyone to convert into Islam.

Dude this all depends on the political milieu of the era, you have the manpower, you walk all over. Dar-ul Harb! HISTORY is the witness to this. Did they pull Crusades out of their soft parts for no reason? Islamic conquering machine was unstoppable. Islam in the West today is the dormant virus of this disease. Now if they unify and reform and secularize themselves, that is different, but that is also impossible because the same book calls for control in every aspect of life.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Therefore there is no point in them living.

For that line of reasoning, one can go to prison in the United States, read the law, Mr. college educated man, you don't call the shots on someone's life! Lost all respect towards you whatsoever for this! And this is why all these islamists should be gotten rid of in the free West.

 

[Adeeb]

And does Allah already know beforehand whether a non-muslim will become a muslim one day? If Allah told you that such and such a person will never become a Muslim, and so asks you to kill them, then would you obey this command now that you know they are better off dead.

Only Allah knows whether one will become Muslim or not. Sorry I do not answer hypothetical questions.

 

[randomman]

And this is why all these islamists should be gotten rid of in the free West.

For that line of reasoning, one can go to prison in the United States, read the law, Mr. college educated man, you don't call the shots on someone's life! Lost all respect towards you whatsoever for this!

hypocrisy

 

[Adeeb]

For that line of reasoning, one can go to prison in the United States, read the law, Mr. college educated man, you don't call the shots on someone's life! Lost all respect towards you whatsoever for this! And this is why all these islamists should be gotten rid of in the free West.

I clearly said this is applied in an Islamic state where the constitution is the Shariah. I have not called any shots, Allah and his messenger call the shots. Maybe I worded it incorrectly, I am giving the reasoning for it. I am not advocating this in America, so please do not try to take it that way. America has its own laws and since I live in the country I abide by them. Also I do not need your respect, even though you probably had no respect for me in the first place.

 

[dharmablues]

Now if they unify and reform and secularize themselves, that is different, but that is also impossible because the same book calls for control in every aspect of life.

But the Old Testament is no different either. If The Jews also renewed Old Testament Laws, then as a Christian would you agree to this on the basis they were legitimate decrees instituted by Yahweh.

 

[dharmablues]

Only Allah knows whether one will become Muslim or not. Sorry I do not answer hypothetical questions.

Allah also knows there will be more women then men inhabiting hell. That makes me think why did Allah waste time creating Eve. In any case, whether Allah is all-knowing or not is not based on a hypothesis.

You still did not answer my question. If Allah told you that such and such a person will never become a Muslim, and so asks you to kill them, then would you obey this command now that you know they are better off dead.

 

[elwill]

You still did not answer my question. If Allah told you that such and such a person will never become a Muslim, and so asks you to kill them, then would you obey this command now that you know they are better off dead.

what is the important of this question ?
allready our God not command us to kill nonmuslims , so what is you point ?

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

hypocrisy

Ouch one more slap to the head, no it is called democracy.

I clearly said this is applied in an Islamic state where the constitution is the Shariah.

I am sorry, where did you mention that, I must have missed.

I have not called any shots

It is logically deducible that you would and could if the power was given unto you. By actually mentioning it, you showed intent.

Maybe I worded it incorrectly, I am giving the reasoning for it.

Maybe, because you seem to be honest. However I don't like the reasoning and I find it threatening to the national sovereignty of the United States.

I am not advocating this in America, so please do not try to take it that way. America has its own laws and since I live in the country I abide by them.

Ok, I can accept that.

Also I do not need your respect, even though you probably had no respect for me in the first place.

Let's apply St. Matthew 7:1 here for both of us then, I like you, you are honest and kind.

But the Old Testament is no different either. If The Jews also renewed Old Testament Laws, then as a Christian would you agree to this on the basis they were legitimate decrees instituted by Yahweh.

Dear dharma, first, as a Christan we take our doctrine straight from Christ's teachings and it is made known unto us that law was accomplished by Christ. Jews adhere to their respective Scriptures but are not ruled by theocracy, and further God's commandments in OT can be traced to local isolated events. Note that we have gigantic theological differences with Jews and even OT calls for death of the apostate, Jews don't kill anyone. You may want to approach GerTzedek or someone....

 

[Osiris]

they had the truth

They had the truth? Sorry, but they didn't... them having the truth is just your opinion. Those who claim to have the truth, are far from it...

but they left it for whatever reason. Therefore there is no point in them living.

This is the worst line of reasoning... according to you they are going to go to hell in the end, correct? Why kill him? They are going to get their punishment. If you kill him, then they should be free from the after life punishment... if not, then you should go to hell along with him for committing murder.

Non-muslims do not have the truth but they can still find the truth, but if the you already had the truth and turned it away then you do not deserve to live.

Reality could be that your religion is wrong (and the probability that is is wrong is really high)... and you(in general) are killing people because you think they do not deserve to live based on the fact that they reject your 'holy' book.

If your religion is wrong, this would be liken to killing someone because they reject Harry Potter. Nice.

 

[elwill]

Some modern muslims have completely rejected this law, arguing that the hadith is weak and not authentic based on what they see as contradictions. Among the major hadith scholars, there has never been any doubt about its authenticity.

no , i don't think that anyone said that the hadeeth is weak , but they said that hadeeth misunderstanding.
narrater of hadeeth said that he hear the prophet say 'who change his relegion , kill him ' the hedeeth is authorized but there are no more details . so when and why he said this command ?
that's which makes schoolars have many openions .
so some said that while islam is still weak , some of jews were believed then apostate to corrupting some of weak believers muslims , so it wasn't general law for anytime

whatever
We must be aware that this opinion depends on the known fact that no one can be forced ever to join Islam, so it's telling anyone to think twice before joining, he must be 100% sure cause it's a one way choice, cause we want only strong believers. So you are free not to join, but to join you must be 100% determined. And if you want to commit apostasy afterwards you have three days to discuss and return back to Islam or the punishment, Or you can first immigrate to another non moslim country, but not allowed to return to the moslim country afterwards. Also note that this is only for adult moslims, children of course are not punished at all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by dharmablues
But the Old Testament is no different either. If The Jews also renewed Old Testament Laws, then as a Christian would you agree to this on the basis they were legitimate decrees instituted by Yahweh.

How would they accomplish that without a temple/santurary and priesthood which YHWH destroyed 2000yrs ago?

According to both the OC and NC, the New High Priest would be on the order of Melchizedek of which Jesus was .
That is an interesting study.

Genesis 14:18 Now Malkiy-Tsedeq, king of Shalem, had brought forth bread and wine,--he being Priest of 'El-Most-High/'Elyown. 19 And he blessed him, and said, "blessed be Abram of 'El-most-high/'Elyown, possessor of heaven and land 20 And blessed be 'El-most-high/'elyown, who hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand". And he gave him a tenth of all.

Hebrews 7:1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq/melcisedek <3198>, King of Salem/salhm <4532>, Priest/iereuV <2409 of the GOD of the most-high/uyistou <5310>, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him.
12 For being changed the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP24.htm

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION,