No “Psalm 83 War”; Bill Salus Offers Confusion

[keras]

The events you are talking about happened about 2500 years ago

Preterist nonsense.
The destruction of Damascus is still future; will come from the Lord, not Assyria or of any of mans volition. As many other Prophesies inform us; the entire Middle East will be depopulated and devastated, when the Lord sends fire from the sun.

My Bible is the Revised English Bible, is the one used by Wickliffe translators.
In Isaiah 17, the REB and the NIV say basically the same thing. No doctrinal differences.

The “fortified city will disappear from Ephraim” in Isaiah 17:3

We know from many other Prophesies that the strength of Israel, that is: the ten Northern tribes, now the Western nations, will be gone after the Day of the Lords fiery wrath.

Denying and placing Prophecy into past history, simply leaves one in the dark, about what must take place before Jesus Returns.

 

[Dale]

Well he's wrong.
Psalm chapter 83 is about kenites.

Asshur refers to satan as antichrist near future. Assyrian is proper name.

Isaiah chapter 812. Speaks of a Confederacy. This a one world political system.

How are kenites behind it ??

Kenites operate from banking, trade and commerce, politics and industries. Get the picture.

Zechariah chapter 1. The four horns are education, economics, political, religion. The kenites use these four agencies to bring in one world political system.

Who are kenites ??

Your in real bad shape if you dont know.

Matthew 13 . Jesus taught the difference between the wheat and the Tares.
Tares are kenites. Offspring of satan.
Wheat are of abraham.

Revelation chapter 2. Kenites claim to be of our brother judah, but do lie.

Kenites are the hidden ones. They mix in. Kenites are vagabond. They have no nation or allegiance to anyone.

Revelation chapter 13 . The Confederacy is one world political system. It receives deadly wound near future. At the 6th trump, antichrist comes to Jerusalem. It's 5 month period.

Ephesians chapter 6 . Those who are biblically illiterate will worship antichrist near future. The gospel armour is knowledge and wisdom of God's word.

Anetazo: “How are kenites behind it ??
Kenites operate from banking, trade and commerce, politics and industries. Get the picture.”

Anetazo: “Kenites are the hidden ones. They mix in. Kenites are vagabond. They have no nation or allegiance to anyone.”

Anetazo: “Matthew 13 . Jesus taught the difference between the wheat and the Tares.
Tares are kenites. Offspring of satan.
Wheat are of abraham.”


Don’t call anyone the “offspring of satan.” It isn’t true and it isn’t helpful.

 

[WilliamLhk]

It goes on to say that Damascus vanishes from history from about 720 BC and 333 BC, when it fell to the forces of Alexander the Great. So history tells us that Damascus was destroyed, and left desolate, for almost 400 years.

Not true. From wikipedia:

"By the 8th century BC, Damascus was practically engulfed by the Assyrians and entered a Dark Age. Nonetheless, it remained the economic and cultural center of the Near East as well as the Arameaen resistance. In 727, a revolt took place in the city, but was put down by Assyrian forces. After Assyria led by Tiglath-Pileser III went on a wide-scale campaign of quelling revolts throughout Syria, Damascus became totally subjugated by their rule. A positive effect of this was stability for the city and benefits from the spice and incense trade with Arabia. In 694 BC, the town was called Šaʾimerišu (Akkadian: ) and its governor was named Ilu-issīya.[43] However, Assyrian authority was dwindling by 609–605 BC, and Syria-Palestine was falling into the orbit of Pharaoh Necho II's Egypt."

Damascus is the hub of the most fertile and productive valley in Syria, and, as such, continued to be a valuable source of tribute to whatever ruler of whatever age ruled over Syria.

 

[BukiRob]

Bill Salus has a book whose title implies that Israel is a coming Mideast superpower. This is based on Psalm 83 prophecy, along with Jeremiah 49 and Isaiah 17. What I say here is based on a Youtube video where he is interviewed.

Salus doesn’t claim to know what happens first but he suggests that two cities in the Middle East will be destroyed by nuclear bombs. He predicts that Arab and Moslem nations will come against Israel, and that Israel will use a nuclear bomb to destroy Damascus, the capital of Syria. Tel Aviv will also be destroyed by a nuclear bomb but Israel will instantly bounce back from this setback. (???) See my next two posts for a response.

Overall, what Salus offers us is a series of oversimplifications and misunderstandings. He jumps to conclusions. Salus is not the first to think that Psalm 83 is a prophecy or a prophecy of the end times. Many, probably most, scholars don’t believe that Psalm 83 is a prophecy at all, they regard it as a prayer that Israel will be delivered from its enemies. Some scholars believe that it is a prophecy that was fulfilled long ago.

Here are headings for Psalm 83 from the Harper Study Bible, Revised Standard Version, Zondervan.

A prayer for God to confound the enemies
A. Prayer to judge Israel’s enemies
B. The prayer of imprecation


Disciples Study Bible, New International Version, Holman Publishers

From a note on Psalm 83: “The psalmist appealed to God to demonstrate his power and justice as He did in the days of Gideon.”

Both of these reflect the view that Psalm 83 is a prayer for deliverance, not a prophecy, and certainly not a prophecy of the end times.

“Make them like tumble-weed, O my God, like chaff before the wind.” Psalm 83:13 NIV
“… so pursue them with your tempest...” Psalm 83:15 NIV
“May they ever be ashamed and dismayed; may they perish in disgrace.” Psalm 83:17 NIV

This is a prayer for deliverance, not a prophecy of destruction.


The podcast I am responding to:

What Israel is About to Do Will Shock the World!​

(Bill Salus interviewed by Jane Duvall)

Well, I will say this, history has shown WITHOUT MISTAKE, that "scholars" have AT BEST a POOR track record on calling what is and is not prophecy, and events that are fulfillment of scripture.

Israel is going to take out Hamas and they are already on record stating that Hezbollah has broken previous agreements about where they would not trespass and they are going into Syria to deal with them and this will lead to their Proxy directly engaging Israel. I can't speak to what the so-called experts think about this but what seems to be ACTUALLY HAPPENING CERTAINLY points to what Bill is saying and DIRECTLY against the view of "biblical scholars"

I find it most useful to look at both sides of an issue when it comes to scripture and doctrines and have almost 0 use for what the so-called experts think

 

[BukiRob]

Not true. From wikipedia:

"By the 8th century BC, Damascus was practically engulfed by the Assyrians and entered a Dark Age. Nonetheless, it remained the economic and cultural center of the Near East as well as the Arameaen resistance. In 727, a revolt took place in the city, but was put down by Assyrian forces. After Assyria led by Tiglath-Pileser III went on a wide-scale campaign of quelling revolts throughout Syria, Damascus became totally subjugated by their rule. A positive effect of this was stability for the city and benefits from the spice and incense trade with Arabia. In 694 BC, the town was called Šaʾimerišu (Akkadian: ) and its governor was named Ilu-issīya.[43] However, Assyrian authority was dwindling by 609–605 BC, and Syria-Palestine was falling into the orbit of Pharaoh Necho II's Egypt."

Damascus is the hub of the most fertile and productive valley in Syria, and, as such, continued to be a valuable source of tribute to whatever ruler of whatever age ruled over Syria.

“See, Damascus will no longer be a city
but will become a heap of ruins.

Seems pretty clear, that its no longer a city. Since Damascus exist today this has CLEARLY not happened. It will happen when ISRAEL destroys it turning into a heap of rubble in the process of taking out hezzbolla

 

[WilliamLhk]

“See, Damascus will no longer be a city
but will become a heap of ruins.

Seems pretty clear, that its no longer a city. Since Damascus exist today this has CLEARLY not happened. It will happen when ISRAEL destroys it turning into a heap of rubble in the process of taking out hezzbolla

I agree that it hasn't happened yet. But I doubt it will be Israel that does the job. More likely (IMHO) it will be done by the King of the North in the Daniel 11:40 invasion.

 

[Dale]

I agree that it hasn't happened yet. But I doubt it will be Israel that does the job. More likely (IMHO) it will be done by the King of the North in the Daniel 11:40 invasion.

You have your countries mixed up. Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Damascus is in Syria.

 

[keras]

I agree that it hasn't happened yet. But I doubt it will be Israel that does the job. More likely (IMHO) it will be done by the King of the North in the Daniel 11:40 invasion.

If you people actually cracked your Bibles open at Isaiah 17, you would see that it will be the Lord who destroys Damascus. He will do it by the thunder of vast forces, V 12 and the entire Middle East will be devastated. V 9
Zephaniah 2:4-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18....He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the [Holy] Land.

 

[Marilyn C]

THE SIX DAY WAR

Speaking three weeks after the war ended, as he accepted an honorary degree from Hebrew University, Yitzhak Rabin gave his reasoning behind the success of Israel:

Our airmen, who struck the enemies' planes so accurately that no one in the world understands how it was done and people seek technological explanations or secret weapons; our armored troops who beat the enemy even when their equipment was inferior to his; our soldiers in all other branches... who overcame our enemies everywhere, despite the latter's superior numbers and fortifications-all these revealed not only coolness and courage in the battle but...an understanding that only their personal stand against the greatest dangers would achieve victory for their country and for their families, and that if victory was not theirs the alternative was annihilation.[163]

Within six days, Israel had won a decisive land war. Israeli forces had taken control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria.


Psalm 83.

V. 1 - 5 We see the enemies of God & Israel are conspiring together saying `Come let us wipe them out as a nation.`

In 1967 different countries around Israel took counsel together with one accord to destroy Israel from being a nation. For the first time in history these countries forgot their differences. They formed a confederacy to declare a `Jehud` - holy war to wipe the name of Israel from remembrance. These actual words were frequently broadcast over Radio Cairo & published in world newspapers. Unknowingly they were practically quoting directly from prophecy given 25 centuries ago. (Ps. 83: 4)


V. 6 - 8 Even the participants were accurately delineated - under ancient names.


ANCIENT NAME.....................MODERN NAME

Edom, Moab, Ammon................Jordan
Hagarenes, Amalek, Philistines...Egypt
Ishmaelites......................Arabia
Gebal, Tyre......................Lebanon
Assyria..........................Syria, Iraq


V. 9 - 18 And what was the outcome?

`Fill their faces with dishonour,....let them be ashamed & dismayed...let them be humiliated.....` (V. 16 & 17)

Israel AGAINST

OTHERS - Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq & Lebanon, (supported by Algeria, Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Pakistan, PLO, Sudan, & Tunisia)

Their Strength.

Israel - 264,000 troops, 300 aircraft, 800 tanks.

The Others - 547,000 troops 957 aircraft, 2,504 tanks.



With those numbers and the war over in 6 days I would say the `Others` would be very embarrassed & ashamed. (as scripture tells us)

 

[WilliamLhk]

You have your countries mixed up. Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Damascus is in Syria.

And the King of the North will almost certainly invade both nations.

 

[WilliamLhk]

If you people actually cracked your Bibles open at Isaiah 17, you would see that it will be the Lord who destroys Damascus. He will do it by the thunder of vast forces, V 12 and the entire Middle East will be devastated. V 9
Zephaniah 2:4-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18....He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the [Holy] Land.

If either of those verses say what you say they do, you would have quoted them. But they don't.

 

[keras]

Speaking three weeks after the war ended, as he accepted an honorary degree from Hebrew University, Yitzhak Rabin gave his reasoning behind the success of Israel:

It is glaringly evident how he and all the Israelis, avoid any mention of God in their successes.
God has allowed their continued existence despite overwhelming odds, for His own purposes. But the Day will come when He will Judge and punish them and only a remnant will survive. Jeremiah 8:8-13, +

If either of those verses say what you say they do, you would have quoted them. But they don't.

Zephaniah 1:14-18 says ....the whole land will be consumed, for He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the [Holy] Land.
Zephaniah 2:4-6 says; ....the burning anger of the Lord will come upon the godless people in Gaza, Ashkelon, etc.

Hosea 4:1-4 The Lord will Judge the inhabitants of the [Holy] Land.....they kill and rob,,,, there is blood everywhere.
Therefore: the Land will become desolate, nothing living will remain there.

Damascus is in the Holy Land. It will become a uninhabited mound of ruins. Isaiah 17:1

 

[Dale]

If you people actually cracked your Bibles open at Isaiah 17, you would see that it will be the Lord who destroys Damascus. He will do it by the thunder of vast forces, V 12 and the entire Middle East will be devastated. V 9
Zephaniah 2:4-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18....He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the [Holy] Land.

When did the events of Isaiah 17 take place?

“Before the boy knows how to say `My father’ or `My
mother’, the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria
will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”
Isaiah 8:4 NIV

Isaiah is telling a mother that these events will happen very soon, within a couple of years.
Keep in mind that the northern kingdom of Israel is dominated by the tribe of Ephraim, which is much the same as Samaria. The “plunder of Samaria” in this passage is the same as the fall of the “fortified city” of Ephraim in Isaiah 17:3.

Some time later there was an incident involving a vineyard
belonging to Naboth the Jezreelite. The vineyard was in
Jezreel, close to the palace of Ahab king of Samaria.
I Kings 21:1 NIV

Here King Ahab of Israel, the northern Kingdom, is called the King of Samaria.

 

[Dale]

If you people actually cracked your Bibles open at Isaiah 17, you would see that it will be the Lord who destroys Damascus. He will do it by the thunder of vast forces, V 12 and the entire Middle East will be devastated. V 9
Zephaniah 2:4-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18....He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the [Holy] Land.

What happened to Damascus at the time of Isaiah or shortly afterward?

The other events of Uzziah’s reign, from beginning to end,
are recorded by the prophet Isaiah son of Amoz.
II Chronicles 26:22 NIV

The Bible plainly tells us that many of the events that Isaiah spoke about happened within his lifetime or the life those who heard him. King Uzziah was followed by his son Jotham, and Jotham’s son Ahaz. Damascus was sacked by the Emperor of Assyria during the reign of King Ahaz.

In the second year of Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel,
Jotham son of Uzziah king of Judah began to reign.
He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he
reigned in Jerusalem for sixteen years. His mother’s name
was Jerusha daughter of Zadok.
II Kings 15:32-33 NIV

(In those days the LORD began to send Rezin king of Aram
and Pekah son of Remaliah against Judah.)
Jotham rested with his fathers and was buried with them in
the City of David, the city of his father. And Ahaz his son
succeeded him as king.
II Kings 15:37-38 NIV

Ahaz sent messengers to say to Tiglath-Pileser king of
Assyria, “I am your servant and vassal. Come up and save me
out of the hand of the king of Aram and of the king of Israel
who are attacking me.”

And Ahaz took the silver and gold found in the temple of the
LORD and in the treasuries of the royal palace and sent it as
a gift to the king of Assyria.
The king of Assyria complied by attacking Damascus and​

capturing it. He deported its inhabitants to Kir and put Rezin
to death.
II Kings 16:7-9 NIV

In the time of King Ahaz, the Emperor of Assyria attacks, captures and sacks Damascus. The King of Aram-Damacus is killed and many of the people of Damascus are deported. Damascus lost its political independence, it was no longer the capital of a kingdom. For a considerable period of time it was left desolate.

 

[keras]

When did the events of Isaiah 17 take place?

They still await fulfilment.

What happened to Damascus at the time of Isaiah or shortly afterward?

They were conquered, as happened many times, but never so comprehensively as will soon happen. When the Lord arises and totally destroys and depopulates the entire Middle East. Jeremiah 10:18

 

[BukiRob]

I agree that it hasn't happened yet. But I doubt it will be Israel that does the job. More likely (IMHO) it will be done by the King of the North in the Daniel 11:40 invasion.

I think because we are seeing the fulfillment of God judging the surrounding neighbors of Israel and the open proclamation of Israel dealing with these nations that are at war with Israel using proxies, we will see Damascus turned into ruins... guess we will find out soon enough.

 

[Oseas]

The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1948, but from now on...​

The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1.948, therefore, Israel as a whole suffered 1878 years of strong plagues and CURSES according Deuteronomy 28:v.15 to 68, 53 verses of severe CURSES, and severe punishments / chastisements, around the whole world.

But now, even now, and from now on, not only the rebel Israel, but all Gentile nations, are as a whole already suffering strong plagues and CURSES according the righteous Judgment of GOD - the Word is GOD - even the Judgment Seat of Christ, as JESUS said: The Father hath given Him authority to execute Judgment also, because He is the Son of man-John 5:v.27. Therefore, he that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. And now, the Gentile nations and the rebel and recalcitrant Israel will be chastised for ever, the Eternal PUNISHMENT has already STARTED for all nations, be sure of this very terrible event, and the chastisement WILL BE FOR EVER AND EVER, it will never end, it will never stop, but never.

And Revelation 6:v.15-17 will fulfill LITERALLY from now on:
15 The kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great Day (the Lord's Day) of his wrath is come; (that is the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium) and who shall be able to stand?

  - The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1948, but from now on...

The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1.948, therefore, Israel as a whole suffered 1878 years of strong plagues and CURSES according Deuteronomy 28:v.15 to 68, 53 verses of severe CURSES, and severe punishments / chastisements...

forums.carm.org

Israel banned of land from 70 AD until 1948, but from now on | Friends Of Jesus

The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1948, but from now on... JESUS said: John 5:43 - I am come in my Father's name,

friendsofjesus.proboards.com

 

[WilliamLhk]

If you people actually cracked your Bibles open at Isaiah 17, you would see that it will be the Lord who destroys Damascus. He will do it by the thunder of vast forces, V 12 and the entire Middle East will be devastated. V 9
Zephaniah 2:4-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18....He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the [Holy] Land.

If either of those verses say what you say they do, you would have quoted them. But they don't.

Zephaniah 1:14-18 says ....the whole land will be consumed, for He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the [Holy] Land.
Zephaniah 2:4-6 says; ....the burning anger of the Lord will come upon the godless people in Gaza, Ashkelon, etc.

Hosea 4:1-4 The Lord will Judge the inhabitants of the [Holy] Land.....they kill and rob,,,, there is blood everywhere.
Therefore: the Land will become desolate, nothing living will remain there.

Damascus is in the Holy Land. It will become a uninhabited mound of ruins. Isaiah 17:1

I was referring to Isaiah 17 verses 12 and 9, not Zephaniah. Which two verses in Isaiah don't say nor suggest "it will be the Lord who destroys Damascus." Nor any other verses in that chapter.

But we do agree that Isaiah 17 is yet to be fulfilled.

 

[Oseas]

But we do agree that Isaiah 17 is yet to be fulfilled.

Yes, it will LITERALLY be fulfilled with the LITERAL fulfillment of Ezekiel 21:25 and Daniel 9:26-27 (the last week of years), and 11:31-36 and Dan.12. Take a look.

And Post #37 above

GOD bless

 

[WilliamLhk]

Yes, it will LITERALLY be fulfilled with the LITERAL fulfillment of Ezekiel 21:25 and Daniel 9:26-27 (the last week of years), and 11:31-36 and Dan.12. Take a look.

And Post #37 above

GOD bless

Isaiah 17 will be fulfilled, but not with the first three passages you cited, which were fulfilled in the past.