Neo-Gnosticism

[ByTheSpirit]

Is the modern hyper grace message an evolved form of the Gnostic teachings that existed in the time of the Apostles? John deals extensively with this in his epistles...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Is the modern hyper grace message an evolved form of the Gnostic teachings that existed in the time of the Apostles? John deals extensively with this in his epistles...

The main Gnostic view was that Jesus did not come as a normal human being in the flesh but as some sort of spiritual "phantom". What John in his Gospel and Epistle stresses is that Jesus was totally human when He was on earth. Right at the beginning of the book he says that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." John was the closest of all the disciples to Jesus and he knew for a fact of the humanity of Jesus.

 

[lismore]

Is the modern hyper grace message an evolved form of the Gnostic teachings that existed in the time of the Apostles? John deals extensively with this in his epistles...

Hello.

Can you provide an example of what this modern hyper grace message is?

thanks

 

[Andry]

Math is math. An advanced knowledge or a more thorough understanding of it doesn't make it "hyper" math.

If by "hyper grace" the OP is implying it is a corrupt understanding of grace, then that's different, and I'd like to know also.

 

[jiminpa]

Math is math. An advanced knowledge or a more thorough understanding of it doesn't make it "hyper" math.

If by "hyper grace" the OP is implying it is a corrupt understanding of grace, then that's different, and I'd like to know also.

Well, sure "hyper-grace is not technically possible, maybe "pseudo-grace" is more accurate, but doesn't "hyper-grace" convey the meaning also?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The hyper grace message as I understand it is God doesn't require us to change or do anything because his grace is (fill in the blank). Perhaps I have heard the wrong version of the message, but the idea that we don't need to battle sin, overcome, obey the Spirit (all of which have manifested in this forum BTW) is wrong.

Now this thread was started due to a study bible I have in that one of the notes it has in 1 John said the Gnostic message pertained to people who claimed to know God but not having to live as God and declaring they were sinless because of their knowledge.

Sounds similar to my understanding of hyper grace, but perhaps I misunderstand.

 

[Dave-W]

Gnosticism was just starting to invade the church when John's letters were written. It came to full bore in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

I recognize many carryovers into modern christianity (of all stripes). I am not sure so-called hypergrace is any more so than other doctrines in christianity.

Gnosticism started in greek mythology as "dualism." It said that all flesh is bad and all spiritual is good. When it came to christianity since flesh is bad, God (who is all-good) could not possibly have come in the flesh; it had to be some kind of spiritual illusion. Some respond to that doctrine by becoming very ascetic and "buffeting the flesh;" while others go the route you refer to, that what ever is done in the flesh is evil anyway so don't bother tryiing to change it.

We also get the ancient church's idol worship of virginity from gnosticism, and the pentecostal and wof idea that our bodies are only vehicles for our TRUE man which is a spirit. This last one is probably the most gnostic notion in the modern church, along with emphasizing Messiah's divinity over His humanity. If talking about the Lord going to the bathroom or having sexual desires makes you uneasy, it is because of gnosticism.

 

[Alithis]

The hyper grace message as I understand it is God doesn't require us to change or do anything because his grace is (fill in the blank). Perhaps I have heard the wrong version of the message, but the idea that we don't need to battle sin, overcome, obey the Spirit (all of which have manifested in this forum BTW) is wrong.

Now this thread was started due to a study bible I have in that one of the notes it has in 1 John said the Gnostic message pertained to people who claimed to know God but not having to live as God and declaring they were sinless because of their knowledge.

Sounds similar to my understanding of hyper grace, but perhaps I misunderstand.

yeh.. it gives the illusion (even if not always practiced out By it promoters) .. that one is forgiven of all sin.. even if one refuse to stop doing it . because all sin is forgiven .. but in truth ,all sin (bar one) is forgiven.. but not forgiven automatically ..-"i confessed my sin (not to man )and the LORD forgave me the iniquity(guilt) of my sin . there is a conviction of sin brought upon us by the Holy Ghost and we are required to repent ..turn from and cease.
as the most forgiving and gracious lord said to " neither do i condemn you .. Go and sin NO MORE "

the hyper-grace concept alleviates people "falsely " of the need to seek repentance .. and it is not only a extreme example any more .., there are entire homosexual churches with man-man couples attending which base their life style upon this false and warped and wicker twisted message ,that has nothing to do with the righteousness of God as worked in us by obedience to the Holy Spirit in us ..,if indeed he be in us when we received him.. if indeed we did receive .. for whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ Jesus ,is not Christs .

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think the theological term for 'hyper-grace" is Antinomianism, which is "we can do what we like because we are saved by grace."

 

[Wgw]

The main Gnostic view was that Jesus did not come as a normal human being in the flesh but as some sort of spiritual "phantom". What John in his Gospel and Epistle stresses is that Jesus was totally human when He was on earth. Right at the beginning of the book he says that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." John was the closest of all the disciples to Jesus and he knew for a fact of the humanity of Jesus.

No, that's docetism, a heresy comorbid with Gnosticism. Gnosticism tended to involve salvific knowledge, dualism, a belief in a purely spiritual pleroma of divine emanations, and in an incomoetent demiurge usually identified with the depiction of God in the Old Testament. Gnosticism does not require Christianity, the last surviving Gnostics are the Mandaeans who venerate John the Baptist and regard Jesus as a false prophet.

 

[Simon the Tanner]

No, that's docetism, a heresy comorbid with Gnosticism. Gnosticism tended to involve salvific knowledge, dualism, a belief in a purely spiritual pleroma of divine emanations, and in an incomoetent demiurge usually identified with the depiction of God in the Old Testament. Gnosticism does not require Christianity, the last surviving Gnostics are the Mandaeans who venerate John the Baptist and regard Jesus as a false prophet.

Exactly. Thank you. So many people throw the word "Gnosticism" around without even knowing what it was/is. They taught that our universe was created by an evil god who escaped from the real heaven and therefore everything in this physical universe is evil, and "salvation" is simply escaping this physical universe to make it back to the spiritual dimension. Secret knowledge was required to accomplish this, and conveniently only the Gnostic teachers possessed that knowledge.