Need thoughts on not being a "good" enough Christian

[TreeHouse]

This is a weird situation, so bear with me. The background is that I am a 36 year old guy, have one marriage behind me (we were friends, not husband and wife, amicable split, no kids) and I did the typical party guy thing until earlier this year when I had my own 'come to Jesus' moment. I was sick of myself for having the option to be with a new person every night and yet be so alone for it.

Things got interesting when, on Feb. 14th, I reconnected with my first girlfriend in high school. We hit it off like old times and have a wonderful relationship but for one thing - I'm not equally yoked. At least, not in the ultra traditional sense.

My past with religion was one where I am just not keen on conservative churches. They turned me from Jesus instead of to him. She is a devout Baptist as of 5 years ago when she came back to the herd after a scary car accident. I believe in the loving grace of God and Jesus and sacrifice, and she has the old school views of restriction and intolerance, though she isn't outward with it, it's just a denominational thing. She is trying new churches with me, and we compromise on a lot of things.

Here is the main kicker - I am of the volition that I am who I am , and I am also a Christian. I am not defined by it and I believe we were given free will for a reason. In my life, she is my priority as I have never loved anyone as I do her. I would take a bullet for her in a heartbeat and would do anything to make her world better. She is of the volition that everything has to be done with God in mind. Which is okay, I am cool with that even though I am of a slightly looser faith, but it makes me automatically lesser because I don't subscribe to that.

A great example of a compromise, but a not good enough one - We are, for all intents and purposes, in a courting type of relationship. We can't date properly due to a 2.5 hour drive each way, and she has 3 kids. We also decided to abstain until marriage. However, her reason was biblical and moral, mine was out of love for her and respect for her wishes.

This was not good enough. I am a believer, but not one who puts a literal belief in everything the bible says. I do not believe the bible was meant to be literal. However, it 'lessens' me in her eyes an that hurts me deeply, as I want to make this work.

We just got done texting a moment ago while I typed this and it may be a moot point. As I am not as devout, ultimately I will not be as good a Christian as I need to be to be compatible with her.

So I suppose my question is thus: Am I a 'lesser' Christian because I am somewhat skeptical of certain parts of the bible? I treat my fellow man as Jesus does, I do public outreach, addiction counseling, I volunteer, I have been saved, I believe in the main tenets, but the details I think are coming between us. Is it wrong to have God above me, but not as my sole decision maker?

 

[Tim Myers]

"Am I a 'lesser' Christian because I am somewhat skeptical of certain parts of the bible?"

Depends on who you ask and how legalistic they happen to be......

 

[TreeHouse]

I had to google legalism earlier. Is there a laymans definition for a newbie like me? Something y'all could give to explain it better?

 

[QuakerOats]

So I suppose my question is thus: Am I a 'lesser' Christian because I am somewhat skeptical of certain parts of the bible? I treat my fellow man as Jesus does, I do public outreach, addiction counseling, I volunteer, I have been saved, I believe in the main tenets, but the details I think are coming between us. Is it wrong to have God above me, but not as my sole decision maker?

As Tim said, the answer will depend on whom you ask, but for what it's worth to you, my opinion is that skepticism, e.g. not believing the bible to be free from error, does not make you a 'lesser' Christian. It may make you a different sort of Christian, but no less a Christian. If your girlfriend believing differently hurts you, you may want to delicately broach the subject with her and let her know how you feel, and further find out what and where her thoughts on the matter, particularly if you're looking to make the relationship work.

 

[QuakerOats]

I had to google legalism earlier. Is there a laymans definition for a newbie like me? Something y'all could give to explain it better?

The most basic definition would be a Christian or other religious person who focuses more on the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of the law. e.g. You must be baptized, and in a certain fashion, in order to be saved. Legalism relies more on a literal reading of scripture, and often disregards context, in my experience.

 

[TreeHouse]

What about the fact that every decision I make in life wouldn't necessarily be with God in mind? Am I somehow cast out due to that? I like the term I saw on here the other day regarding the Trinity (God above me, God beside me, God within me) and I believe Jesus was a great man, and not only died for our sins but set a bar prety high for moral standards and social cohesion. However, I am not someone who is okay putting every single item in a box for God to answer for me. We even come to similar decisions but from different ends. I just can't see how I am somehow worse for being better I guess.

And I recognize I'm too close to the issue to fully see it at the moment as well. Perhaps tomorrow I will revisit this. Thanks all. God Bless and Good Night.

 

[QuakerOats]

What about the fact that every decision I make in life wouldn't necessarily be with God in mind? Am I somehow cast out due to that?

I know this may not help, but I think both are questions only you can answer for yourself. It's my personal opinion that God does not always have an opinion about what we do. I'll share with you a quote from a lovely Quaker woman, one in which I feel may be relevant:

"The need to discern something is set in action by God. It is of no use for me to try to "discern" if God wants me to go to Chicago. It is my experience that lists of pros and cons, prayerful petitions and other earthly strivings will not usually offer much in the way of Truth. God may or may not have an opinion on anything that I initiate. It only becomes imperative to try to discern God's will when we have an experience, some powerful experience, that we cannot explain, an experience through which we suspect (or fear) God may be trying to communicate with us. This communication can come in a strong feeling that won't go away, a dream, a voice, a sense of certainty." Taken from her website, here.

 

[lux et lex]

This sounds just like my ex boyfriend and I. We "courted" for 2.5 years. I just faked it for the most part. Not healthy. One day we were out for dinner and he said something about kids and how I'd have to stay home if we had them (neither of us wanted them, kind of moot.). I exploded because was going to be (and now am) a lawyer and he was going to be (but still isn't) a Christian counselor and where I agreed that someone should stay home with the kid, I didn't understand why it needed to be me. He didn't realize he hit such a nerve, and started talking in his normal fundamentalist way, trying to reason with me. But he couldn't. (I knew that, he didn't). So I broke it off. I knew it was coming, he was blindsided. I found out two years later when we were finally able to talk about everything that he was going to propose two months after we broke it off.

So let me be a lesson...be open about your different faith ideas. Don't just go along with it (and it doesn't seem like you are). As long as everyone knows what page everyone is on, things can work. If you want to talk further about my experience or what have you, I'm only a pm away, or I'll answer questions here.

 

[lucaspa]

This was not good enough. I am a believer, but not one who puts a literal belief in everything the bible says....Am I a 'lesser' Christian because I am somewhat skeptical of certain parts of the bible?

IMO, you are a better Christian. What she is doing is what Fundies do: worship the Bible instead of God. Instead of you being a "lesser Christian", she is worshipping a false idol.

This isn't a "detail", it's a very fundamental (pardon the pun) difference. You and she simply are not worshipping the same deity.

 

[TreeHouse]

Thanks y'all for the advice and insight. It is really helping. Lux, I may take you up on the PM offer to get more personal info on that as it appears it may be directly similar and give me an idea of what could happen.

 

[lucaspa]

What about the fact that every decision I make in life wouldn't necessarily be with God in mind?

How do you determine what is "God in mind"? Do you pray over your decisions and ask that He help you so that you are doing His will? If so, then "yes", you are making desicions with "God in mind". I haven't found that God gives an unambiguous answer to these questions. Does your girlfriend think God gives her such answers?

If not, how does she determine what "God has in mind"? Look at scripture? If that, again she is worshipping a false idol. God isn't a book.

Thanks all. God Bless and Good Night.

Good luck.

 

[LawsonAlan]

Christ taught us that we are to love the Lord and love our neighbors.

On this, He said, hang all the laws and commandments.

To me, a person who willingly complies with these two greatest commandments is someone who has heard and accepted Christ's message. IOW; a Christian.

So, question one is, are you a Christian (by my definition or your own makes little difference)?

And, at any point, did Christ mention any law superceding His two greatest commandments? No?

It stands to reason that rules and church laws (like the length of a woman's hair) may or may not be useful in trying to follow the greatest of commandments. You may not think they are useful. Your girlfriend might think they are useful.

Is either of you a "better" Christian for holding this belief?

To answer that question requires judgment, which is not my intent. The question was rhetorical. I only asked it so you may put things into perspective.

Some Christians have more literal interpretations of the bible. Others, less so.

But Jesus gave us the two most important factors that we need to understand.

I've seen people with very literal interpreataions of the bible who demand that we need to hate whatever God hates, even when it goes against the greatest commandments.

I've seen people with very loose interpretations of the bible follw these commandments very closely.

Again, not to judge, but who is a better Christian (rhetorical)?

 

[rayodeluz]

I posted the below on another site where there's been some bickering between people of different denominations. Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but hopefully it may help:

Is there any believer here who thinks God doesn’t have a plan for our lives? We’re not made from some cookie cutter where we’re all meant to be alike or follow the same path. We are like snowflakes in that we may look somewhat the same from a distance, but a closer inspection shows that no two of us are exactly alike. As Christians we have put our faith in Jesus Christ, and we have chosen to let Him guide our lives instead of trying to do things our own, futile, human way. He will take us where He wants us, and He will let us know what He wants from us. Of course the church is extremely important in spreading the gospel and the good news of Jesus Christ, and helping guide people along their spiritual paths. However, there is no church that will ever outrank Jesus. I’m led by His Spirit and not some set of rules. It’s not up to the church, any church, to tell us what we should or should not do with our lives. That’s between an individual believer and Jesus.

One person may be guided to be a part of the RCC, just as another may be guided to join a protestant denomination, or may be none at all. It was many years after I became a Christian that I started to physically attend a church. That was my path, and the only one who has the right to judge whether that was right or wrong is Jesus. There are differences between Catholics and Protestants, but it’s not because one is twisting scripture to suit their own needs. It’s simply a matter of interpreting scripture differently, and no one church has a monopoly on being correct. The protestant reformation happened because guys like Martin Luther truly believed that the RCC at the time was not staying true to scripture. And the RCC will say the opposite and call Luther a heretic. And protestant denominations disagree among themselves. So who can a person believe?

Speaking for myself, I’m sticking with Jesus as the ultimate authority. I still listen daily to teachings from the RCC and protestant denominations. Here in Mexico I attend Catholic masses, in the USA I attend a UCC church in my home state. I like the way Charles Stanley (a Baptist) and Melissa Scott (non denominational but calls herself a Christist) teaches, and I can see them both on TV or by Internet. I can learn from all of them. You’ll find some differences among them, but there’s one thing I’ve found that all agree on: to have faith in Jesus Christ, and follow His commandments, which is to love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. That’s what all Christians have (or should have) in common regardless of denomination. That is what saves us. There’s seems to be a loss of focus on that, and too much petty bickering over who’s right and who’s wrong about doctrine. Anyone who has chosen to put his/her faith in Jesus Christ could not make a better decision, and once that person has done that we have to realize it’s not our job to tell that person what to do, what church to join, etc. That’s Jesus’ job and not ours, and He is never wrong.

 

[Merlin Athrawes]

Basically paralleling what Lux said, and your situation reminds me of my primary college girlfriend (well, such as she was, I'm not sure we dated as such). We were both more or less fundamentalist at the time but she was Pentecostal also, and about a month or two into our relationship she tried to pressure me to come with her to Maranatha, a college group at the time that had a rep for being at least borderline cultish. When I balked, our relationship basically ended. So yeah, it can be difficult but it may not be impossible. You mentioned that your h.s./current girlfriend went back to being devout Baptist after a car accident. (Slightly digress, but what kind of Baptist? ABC? SBC? Independent?) Sometimes such scary things can genuinely make us rethink our spirituality, but are you sure (and for that matter is she?) that she didn't just let them reel her back in purely out of fear instead of genuine desire to love God? Fear can be a starting point but it isn't really good long-term as a spiritual motivator. Maybe God put you in her life so you can help her face her fears and heal somewhat. eta: If you love her, especially despite the difficulties, you're already at least as good a Christian as she.

 

[lismore]

At a young people's meeting I was once told that in relationship there had to be three people, you, her and Jesus.

I couldn't quite get a handle on it. But I think it meant putting the denominational teaching of every aspect of relationship in as a third component.

So I can understand where the OP is coming from.

But communication and honesty with your g/f is key I think. If she loves you and sees where you are coming from..............then she would understand.

 

[hedrick]

The two of you are going to have to work this out. But one thing you should think about is how much of this is a real difference and how much is cultural. I grew up in a home where both parents were active Christians, but they didn't talk about it a lot. I don't either. But in college I had evangelical friends. Their background involved talking about God all the time. I simply don't know how much actual difference there was in our commitment to God. If you've grown up not talking about God much, you're probably never going to express your faith the same way she does. You can't go into a marriage expecting to change someone. Either she's going to accept you, and understand that you do have faith even if it's not as visible, or things are going to be difficult.

However you might also want to take the opportunity to think about what your spiritual state actually is. Even if you're never going to ask Jesus what to eat for lunch, even people from non-evangelical backgrounds can benefit by regular (say daily) Bible reading and prayer. If you don't do that, you might want to meet her halfway by starting.

 

[LanceCohen]

The answer is love.

Love transcends all labels: "good enough Christian", fundamentalist, etc etc all are irrelevant and meaningless when there is true love.

And as an example, is your decision to abstain from sex because you love her. If she loves you, she ought to know if she is hurting you, but whether she admits it or not is another matter.

Now God loves you as much as God loves her, and the grace of God is sufficient for all things. There is no need to earn this love from God, no need to be a fundamentalist or "good enough" or whatever to earn this love.

And seemingly God have given you both this opportunity to love and to learn to love, of each other and of God. And all parties must take this opportunity. If one party fails it won't work, and it will be foolish to try to persist then.

 

[TreeHouse]

I wanted to thank everyone for the advice and well wishes. She sent a long email to me with a bunch of scripture from her side stating her concerns and then we called and talked (we text a lot so this was a significant change in and of itself) and I gave my side of a few items and agreed we could make it work but that I would not be the fundamentalist type at any point because it is just not in my nature. She said she would try to see the more relaxed loving side of being a Christian and try not to let denominational doctines guide her as much.

Now it's conquering distance and finding a church we can both be happy in. Balance in all things is our key, and trying to better ourselves and the world through love and faith is the plan. So far, so good

 

[Merlin Athrawes]

If there's an American Baptist Churches (Find a Church) congregation in your area, that might be a good place to find a starter compromise church, especially since she's Baptist. Individual congregations vary but they have a reputation as a moderate evangelical denomination.

 

[TreeHouse]

I thought we had things under control until I went to a United Methodist church around the corner for Palm Sunday and there was a *gasp* female pastor. I told her how it was a nice service, very traditional, very stuctured, etc. and she said it sounded quite nice. Then I mentioned the female pastor and in roughly the time it took for her to haul out the bible and text it up, I was hit with 1 Timothy 2:11-14, in which she states women were not meant for teaching men. This led to a massive downhill argument.

I said that if you were going to stick with that, then you need to quit your job as a supervisor and training professional. She said that doesn't apply nowadays. I asked where you draw the line then, since you haul up what serves your needs on a case by case scriptural basis (yes I was wrong to state that, but it's what happens) without looking at context. Then it hit a roadblock when she stated simply "The Bible is timeless, context has no meaning." So I suppoose we should all carry around shovels as it says in Deuteronomy then right?

Her rigidity is actually causiing me to slip back into the idea that religion (not faith, lest I be cast out of the forums for this comment) poisons the minds of some who are not able to deal with certain realities we face. I think the basic issue here is that the stringent literal view of the bible (legalism I think is what terminology we used before) will always be used no matter what the discussion involves, and as such, I cannot say that I would ever be comfortable knowing that. In some facets yes, it is timeless, but to cherry pick here and there seems almost shortsighted and diminishes the idea that we are independent creatures.

I apologize for what appears to be venting on this, but I truly have no one else to talk to about this. I'm the only person I know locally who is of this mindset, being a liberal Christian, and as such, it's a rather lonely road to travel.