Nazi SS veterans parade in Latvia

[TG123]

Unfortunately this is not an April Fool's prank... most of these guys should be locked up, not parading in uniform. How someone could be proud of serving in such a horrid armed group is beyond me.

Controversial Latvian Waffen-SS parade passes peacefully - Monsters and Critics

 

[ArnautDaniel]

Unfortunately this is not an April Fool's prank... most of these guys should be locked up, not parading in uniform. How someone could be proud of serving in such a horrid armed group is beyond me.

Controversial Latvian Waffen-SS parade passes peacefully - Monsters and Critics

It is worthwhile to differentiate the Waffen-SS from the Allgemeine-SS.

The former were elite combat units, the latter did things like staff concentration camps.

 

[Washington]

Most in the Latvian Waffen-SS were conscripts who had no choice in how they served.

 

[kiwimac]

These people gave their lives in units they were often forced in to. They have little to be locked up for.

 

[Jonathan David]

There are many ways of framing the remembrance of veterans. Whether or not they were conscripted, there is no reason to wear the uniform (which I understand is the case... is that right?). Having said that, they defended their country against an advancing Soviet Union. I understand why Latvians would celebrate this. I don't know the history well enough to know what to think.... but I suspect that I would only be offended by the display of nazi emblems, including those of the SS. Otherwise, this is no more objectionable than the general glorification of any soldiers, even though we know that some do great things and others to absolutely horrible things... regardless of what side they are on or what war they are in.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Unfortunately this is not an April Fool's prank... most of these guys should be locked up, not parading in uniform. How someone could be proud of serving in such a horrid armed group is beyond me.

Controversial Latvian Waffen-SS parade passes peacefully - Monsters and Critics

They were defending their homeland from the Soviets.

 

[TG123]

It is worthwhile to differentiate the Waffen-SS from the Allgemeine-SS.

The former were elite combat units, the latter did things like staff concentration camps.

The Latvian SS helped put down the Warsaw uprising (1944) and conducted largescale antipartisan operations in Poland. They worked together with the Nazis in their most brutal actions. My grandparents were survivors, they know.

These guys also helped put down the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto. We all know what happened there.

Mila 18 in the Warsaw Ghetto

 

[ArnautDaniel]

The Latvian SS helped put down the Warsaw uprising (1944) and conducted largescale antipartisan operations in Poland. They worked together with the Nazis in their most brutal actions. My grandparents were survivors, they know.

These guys also helped put down the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto. We all know what happened there.

Mila 18 in the Warsaw Ghetto

So they were basically doing what the US and its allies are doing in Afghanistan.

That's part of modern warfare.

 

[kiwimac]

Some of the latvian SS were involved in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. SOME. Not all by any means. Are you suggesting that we define a whole group by the actions of some of the group?

 

[Voegelin]

Lett riflemen saved Zinoviev and Lenin from being strung up by the people of Russia in 1918. There are Letts walking around today who served the USSR. These SS vets are a minor part of the problem.

 

[TG123]

So they were basically doing what the US and its allies are doing in Afghanistan.

That's part of modern warfare.

I am strongly opposed to the war in Afghanistan and if you read my posts you will know where I stand when it comes to my country's and your country's bloodsoaked foreign policies in Central Asia and the Middle East, but I wouldn't compare our armies to the Nazi SS. We are murdering thousands of innocent people while hypocritically claiming to be 'defending democracy' but our soldiers are trying to destroy ethnic groups completely like the Nazi SS did.

 

[TG123]

Some of the latvian SS were involved in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. SOME. Not all by any means. Are you suggesting that we define a whole group by the actions of some of the group?

In the case of the SS? Yes.

The SS were notorious for torture, mass murder and genocide. Unlike the Wermacht, SS soldiers waged war against civilians wherever they were. Even the ones who did not run the concentration camps murdered Slavic, gypsy and Jewish civilians in territories they fought in.

The Wermacht had their hands quite dirty too and also engaged in atrocities. But their purpose, unlike that of the SS, was not to wage war against civilians.

 

[TG123]

Lett riflemen saved Zinoviev and Lenin from being strung up by the people of Russia in 1918. There are Letts walking around today who served the USSR. These SS vets are a minor part of the problem.

People who collaborate with occupying powers are traitors to their homeland, whether the occupiers are come from Berlin, Moscow or Washington.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

That's brilliant. So all of western europe were traitors for fighting with the US/UK against the Nazis? The people of Iraq and Afghanistan who supported a free government versus hideous dictators are traitors?

Quite frankly, you have no right to judge these people.

 

[ArnautDaniel]

I am strongly opposed to the war in Afghanistan and if you read my posts you will know where I stand when it comes to my country's and your country's bloodsoaked foreign policies in Central Asia and the Middle East, but I wouldn't compare our armies to the Nazi SS. We are murdering thousands of innocent people while hypocritically claiming to be 'defending democracy' but our soldiers are trying to destroy ethnic groups completely like the Nazi SS did.

You changed the subject again. We are talking about the Waffen SS. These were military units and they killed partisans.

That sounds like what our militaries are up to.

The Allgemeine-SS is a different animal.

 

[ArnautDaniel]

In the case of the SS? Yes.

The SS were notorious for torture, mass murder and genocide. Unlike the Wermacht, SS soldiers waged war against civilians wherever they were. Even the ones who did not run the concentration camps murdered Slavic, gypsy and Jewish civilians in territories they fought in.

The Wermacht had their hands quite dirty too and also engaged in atrocities. But their purpose, unlike that of the SS, was not to wage war against civilians.

You want to know who really waged a war against civilians in WWII?

Allied bombers.

Should we condemn them?

 

[Voegelin]

George Irbe on why some Letts joined the SS:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]I was born in Riga, Latvia, in 1935[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica] . . . In June, 1941, mother was warned by an acquaintance (turned communist, but apparently with some human decency left in him) not to be home on a certain night. She understood the cryptic message and escaped with me and my little half-sister on a crowded train crammed full with Red troops. That was a stroke of luck; the Cheka had no way to check the papers of people on that train. We escaped to a very remote corner of the country. I still have memories of the crowded railway car, and the relief of the grownups some weeks later when a German motorcycle recon squad pulled into the farmyard one misty summer morning. Now at least we could stop living in constant fear . . . [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]even according to Rosenberg's (Hitler's expert on race) classification, Latvians were #2; that meant: behave and follow orders and you have a chance to live . . .

My life[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
[/FONT]

 

[TG123]

You want to know who really waged a war against civilians in WWII?

Allied bombers.

Should we condemn them?

Allied bombers bombed German and Japanese civilians and were guilty of war crimes but unlike their enemies they did not try to destroy a whole population of peoples.

 

[TG123]

That's brilliant. So all of western europe were traitors for fighting with the US/UK against the Nazis? The people of Iraq and Afghanistan who supported a free government versus hideous dictators are traitors?

Quite frankly, you have no right to judge these people.

The US and UK did not occupy France or Denmark, they fought to kick out the Nazis and then left.

I am not judging Iraqis or Afghans who co-operate with the occupiers, my statement perhaps was too harsh. I also do not judge those who oppose their presence and fight it.

I am strongly opposed the US, UK and NATO presence in Afghanistan and Iraq.

You call Karza's regime a 'free government'??? Are you kidding me? Have you heard of Adbul Rahman?

The US and UK supported Saddam Hussein until he was stupid enough to attack their oil reserves in Kuwait. Halabja became a crime in the eyes of the US only after Saddam fell out of favour with his handlers in Washington.

While the US is fighting a 'war on terror' and to 'impose freedom' in Afghanistan and Iraq, it gives weapons to the Colombian army which is in bed with death squads who have murdered tens of thousand of Colombians and gave support to Islam Kamirov of Uzbekistan and the Saudi royal family...

 

[TG123]

George Irbe on why some Letts joined the SS:

I was born in Riga, Latvia, in 1935 . . . In June, 1941, mother was warned by an acquaintance (turned communist, but apparently with some human decency left in him) not to be home on a certain night. She understood the cryptic message and escaped with me and my little half-sister on a crowded train crammed full with Red troops. That was a stroke of luck; the Cheka had no way to check the papers of people on that train. We escaped to a very remote corner of the country. I still have memories of the crowded railway car, and the relief of the grownups some weeks later when a German motorcycle recon squad pulled into the farmyard one misty summer morning. Now at least we could stop living in constant fear . . . even according to Rosenberg's (Hitler's expert on race) classification, Latvians were #2; that meant: behave and follow orders and you have a chance to live . . .

Thank you for sharing that. Soviet atrocities were indeed horrible and Latvians suffered horribly.

Don't forget though that these German motorcycle recon squads that took away this man's fear, brought terror and death to Polish, Jewish, Russian, gypsy and other civilians who unlike the Latvians, were on the lowest rung of the Rosenberg's race ladder. The Latvian SS personnel who accompanied the German armed forces took part in spreading the terror.