Nazarenes!

[Hotpepper]

Well I've finally found a church I can agree and feel comfortable with. For 14 years I have been a Hyper-Calvinist, in the KJV Only Movement, in and around the fire and brimstone preaching, and heavily into the scriptures. Isn't it funny how one can know the bible well, quote many verses, and preach the Word for years, yet none of it means a single thing unless God Himself brings the understanding of the context to us through love. I have changed into a new man by Christ Jesus. It is absolutely amazing what He has done for me. It has taken me a very long time to find a church and I am pretty sure I have found it. I have been reading a great deal of John Wesley's sermons and I'm loving them. My family and I have also been watching a lot of sermons online that a local Nazarene Church in our town has on their website. We'll be going there for the first time on Sunday. I was hoping to get some feed back on a simple question from you guys. How much does the Nazarene Church feel like home to you?

 

[NachoND]

I enjoy the Nazerene church a lot.....I have been to many different churchs in my life and this is the one I feel the most at home in.

I have only been going for 7 months, so not sure if I will disagree with anything down the road, but as of now I am very pleased with the church.

 

[Hotpepper]

Awesome, thanks for your perspective and insight. I appreciate it greatly.

Anyone else? Where are all the Nazarenes?

 

[Amisk]

 

[Husky7]

I don't consider myself a Nazarene, however I attend a Nazarene church regularly. The overall feeling of the church is comfortable, and the community is great. The only reason I don't consider myself a Nazarene is because of some of their beliefs. The one I disagree most with is: Eternity – People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and hell are real places of eternal existence.

The concept of Hell, comes from the Catholic Church and the Pagans. The unrightous will not "exist" eternally seperated from God. Only those who obtain Heaven will exist forever. We were not created to exist forever.

 

[Hotpepper]

I don't consider myself a Nazarene, however I attend a Nazarene church regularly. The overall feeling of the church is comfortable, and the community is great. The only reason I don't consider myself a Nazarene is because of some of their beliefs. The one I disagree most with is: Eternity – People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and hell are real places of eternal existence.

The concept of Hell, comes from the Catholic Church and the Pagans. The unrightous will not "exist" eternally seperated from God. Only those who obtain Heaven will exist forever. We were not created to exist forever.

I'm right there with you. It is clear to me through my studies that it will be the effects of the dissolution that will be "forever". The spirit of man is only promised eternal life to those who believe. However it is also clear to me that the serpent, the false prophet, and the beast (satanic trinity) will be in torment and suffer eternally as they are immortal beings unlike wicked men who deny Christ and do evil. I thought I was alone with that believe on here The funny thing is, I agree with everything else (well, not everything) the Church of the Nazarene (Wesleyan) teaches through the bible. However, that one disagreement really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. God will reveal the truth one way or the other during that time. If my church made it one of their main focal points in their everyday sermons I'd be looking for another church though. I have no problem calling myself a Nazarene however because it would be ridiculous to expect everyone to except 100% of ALL the points of any theology. We are made with minds to reason.

My pastor and I had a one on one yesterday and I laid my cards out on the table. I also had him read my blog (in my sig) We are mostly on the same page and that is what counts. I really appreciated how he respected my beliefs. I've also noticed that every pastor has some differences in opinions and they usually get together and debate in the most friendliest (playful) ways. Mostly because they are secondary things that will eventually be revealed in the end. In other words, salvation isn't in question with most topics and differences of opinions. I do however respect his authority as the church "leader" and who knows maybe he'll do a few sermons and prove me wrong on some things. As long as I keep an open mind and listen to what he has to say. He listened to what I had to say so why not give the same respect right.

 

[Husky7]

I'm right there with you. It is clear to me through my studies that it will be the effects of the dissolution that will be "forever". The spirit of man is only promised eternal life to those who believe. However it is also clear to me that the serpent, the false prophet, and the beast (satanic trinity) will be in torment and suffer eternally as they are immortal beings unlike wicked men who deny Christ and do evil. I thought I was alone with that believe on here The funny thing is, I agree with everything else (well, not everything) the Church of the Nazarene (Wesleyan) teaches through the bible. However, that one disagreement really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. God will reveal the truth one way or the other during that time. If my church made it one of their main focal points in their everyday sermons I'd be looking for another church though. I have no problem calling myself a Nazarene however because it would be ridiculous to expect everyone to except 100% of ALL the points of any theology. We are made with minds to reason.

My pastor and I had a one on one yesterday and I laid my cards out on the table. I also had him read my blog (in my sig) We are mostly on the same page and that is what counts. I really appreciated how he respected my beliefs. I've also noticed that every pastor has some differences in opinions and they usually get together and debate in the most friendliest (playful) ways. Mostly because they are secondary things that will eventually be revealed in the end. In other words, salvation isn't in question with most topics and differences of opinions. I do however respect his authority as the church "leader" and who knows maybe he'll do a few sermons and prove me wrong on some things. As long as I keep an open mind and listen to what he has to say. He listened to what I had to say so why not give the same respect right.

Actually Satan and his Angels will simply be destroyed along with all the unrightous humans. They will not be tormented forever.

 

[Maid Marie]

This Nazarene was on vacation

I agree with the beliefs of the CotN, though not with the American Holiness Movement part of it as that opens the door to legalism. My current church can feel like home to me at many times, though my soon to be leaving pastor's push for us to be a seeker sensitive church drives me batty and makes me feel like the Episcopal Church next door is a better fit for me in worship style.

 

[Hotpepper]

I agree with the beliefs of the CotN, though not with the American Holiness Movement part of it as that opens the door to legalism.

From what I understand, the holiness achieved can only be through sanctification by the Spirit of God, our only part in this run or gauntlet is our love for God and His will, and perhaps to refrain from things that simply hinder us. One must love God more than sin and "will" not to sin. The effectual work of the Holy Spirit and our willingness to allow it to happen by love is the only way to achieve holiness. Have you found many churches that teach other than what Wesley actually taught? What does the "American Holiness Movement" teach that would open the door to legalism? I've not heard this before.

 

[Maid Marie]

From what I understand, the holiness achieved can only be through sanctification by the Spirit of God, our only part in this run or gauntlet is our love for God and His will, and perhaps to refrain from things that simply hinder us. One must love God more than sin and "will" not to sin. The effectual work of the Holy Spirit and our willingness to allow it to happen by love is the only way to achieve holiness. Have you found many churches that teach other than what Wesley actually taught? What does the "American Holiness Movement" teach that would open the door to legalism? I've not heard this before.

The AHM is an offshoot of Methodism that has its roots in revivalism and the American Frontier. It can be rather emotional at times. I grew up hearing some very emotionally manipulative sermons all designed to get people to the altar...or else. The CotN follows both Wesleyan and AHM theologies.

I grew up hearing that the CotN believes sanctification is an instantaneous thing as well as a process. But the emphasis in my church was on the instant part and the sinless part. The legalism and manipulation I heard all the time was "if you still have sin, then you must not be entirely sanctified yet so get to the altar NOW." And entire sanctification was the end all and be all of one's existence. I prefer the Weslyan/UMC approach of sancitification - no more guilt trips. My church also emphasized the sinless part to the exclusion of the love part. I love books like Relational Holiness by Thomas Oord and Michael Lodahl. It emphasizes that Sanctification's purpose to love like Jesus did, not to just be sinless. The sinlessness part is where the legalism comes in. Some folks [especially in churches like Pilgrim Holiness and Wesleyan Methodist] if one does not dress a certain way, then one has 'sinned'. I can't live like that.

Some Nazarenes follow the Wesleyan theology almost exclusively now and reject the AHM. Once I did that too, I found peace.

Here are some websites with further info plus some quotes -

Ten Theological Trick Questions

I like these quotes: " "Sinless Perfection" is a perversion of the teachings of John Wesley that arose in parts of the American Holiness Movement in the latter part of the 1800s. Some overzealous promoters of a "second" crisis experience in the Christian life concluded that this second blessing eradicated from a person all tendencies to sin thus rendering the person spiritually perfect and incapable of sinning. This is a point where Calvinists rightly criticize what they see in some holiness churches."

And " Have you been baptized with the Holy Spirit? No. Beyond the immediate association with Pentecostalism and charismatic phenomena, "spirit baptism" language has been widely debated in the Wesleyan tradition, with increasing numbers of Wesleyan scholars rejecting it. It is not something John Wesley promoted, but was introduced into the American Holiness movement through Charles Finney and Asa Mahan. There is solid biblical evidence that the New Testament passages that refer to "spirit baptism" have little if anything to do with how that concept is applied to manifestations of the Spirit, such as being slain in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, or other phenomena, or to the concept of sanctification in the Wesleyan traditions."

Holiness movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hotpepper]

Thanks Marie for the links and I'll look into those books as well. I sure do appreciate the feed back.

God bless,

-Pepper