Naming of Children

[Orthodox Andrew]

I have an additional question: Do any of you give thought or consideration to the meaning of names? I didn't used to give a lot of thought to this, but Vasya is a bit of an etymologist, and therefore likes to make sure names have acceptable meanings. Anyone else?

For example, "Douglas" means black water. Who wants to name their child after black water?

I do. That's why I prefer OT names so often. If you want to see the meaning of lots of names, try this site. http://behindthename.com/

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Opps. I just noticed somebody already posted the site I posted. Oh well, I guess the word is already out.

 

[Shubunkin]

My father-in-law suggested names for our twins when we got them... Pete and Repete ... **a very old joke**

 

[Ebor]

names have meaning. it is only very recently that they have ceased to have the same meaning they used to have. it was only a couple generations ago that it was inconceivable that a Christian child - even Protestant - would not have a Christian name.

Oh it was concievable. Names and naming can be *very* individual. It depended on time and place and inclination of the parents. The American artist Charles Willson Peale named some of his sons after famous painters: Raphaelle and Rembrandt and Rubens and Titian among others. Then there was Charles Linnaeus after the naturalist. One daughter was Sophronisba and another was Rosalba. He had 16 children and taught them all to paint.

I have some southern US ancestors/relatives that had some ummm unusual names like the twins Leota and Loeta and Vera and Era. A greatgrandmother born in the mid-1800's iirc had "Murzell" as a middle name apparently from a French novel. Then again there was more then one "Abraham" in the lines.

Then there is the case of naming children after their father such as Miss Frank Armstrong Crawford born in 1839. The lady became Cornelius Vanderbilt's second wife.

http://www.geocities.com/dyancey3/vanderb.htm

The same thing happened in my family with a Great-aunt and a grandmother was named after the doctor "Stevenson".

There are plenty of other examples from history such as the Mathers Increase and Cotton. A friend of mine has collected a number of umm unusual names from the British Isles. I'll have to dig the list up.

Ebor

 

[Ebor]

My father-in-law suggested names for our twins when we got them... Pete and Repete ... **a very old joke**

 

[ufonium2]

We're giving our son two Old Testament names, Aaron Benjamin.

I think the ethnic name thing is tricky. For instance, if I were going to name my son after someone, it would be after my first pastor, whose name was Waldemar. Fine if your last name is Polish, too, but his won't be. It's a saint's name (variation of Vladimir) but that's not going to help him much in grade school. And there's no English equivalent. So we weighed (briefly) the idea of naming a kid Waldemar knowing he'll most likely grow up here and never meet another Waldemar, and decided against it.

My dad has a horrible name. Horrendous. So his primary concern when naming us was that we have easy to spell, easy to pronounce names that didn't get us beaten up. I think if you did a demographic study of people with crazy names, you'd notice that they tend to name their kids "John" and "Sarah" or something like that.

 

[Tsarina]

We're giving our son two Old Testament names, Aaron Benjamin.

I think the ethnic name thing is tricky. For instance, if I were going to name my son after someone, it would be after my first pastor, whose name was Waldemar. Fine if your last name is Polish, too, but his won't be. It's a saint's name (variation of Vladimir) but that's not going to help him much in grade school. And there's no English equivalent. So we weighed (briefly) the idea of naming a kid Waldemar knowing he'll most likely grow up here and never meet another Waldemar, and decided against it.

My dad has a horrible name. Horrendous. So his primary concern when naming us was that we have easy to spell, easy to pronounce names that didn't get us beaten up. I think if you did a demographic study of people with crazy names, you'd notice that they tend to name their kids "John" and "Sarah" or something like that.

OT names for boys are always nice. I love the names you have choosen for your son.

My favorite OT names for a boy would be: Moses, Elijah and Isaac. For girls, there is only one that i like from the OT.. "Solomania" from the book of Maccabes.

 

[gzt]

Charles Willson Peale was, as far as I know, a deist and a revolutionary, not a conventional Christian. Baptists, of course, had some odd names, having wandered from traditional Christian conventions, and I presume those were your Southerners. But I'm afraid you're failing to track my argument as, for instance, Vera and Abraham are Christian names and the fact that a woman was named Frank is quite irrelevant.

I will concede that perhaps America is abnormal, being a rootless country, esp. in its religion.

 

[DonVA]

Charles Willson Peale was, as far as I know, a deist and a revolutionary, not a conventional Christian. Baptists, of course, had some odd names, having wandered from traditional Christian conventions, and I presume those were your Southerners. But I'm afraid you're failing to track my argument as, for instance, Vera and Abraham are Christian names and the fact that a woman was named Frank is quite irrelevant.

I will concede that perhaps America is abnormal, being a rootless country, esp. in its religion.

I'm still questioning my parents, one a cradle-O, the other a convert prior to their marriage: NONE of my names are Christian names. I was given the additional name "John" when I was baptised as an infant, but in the church in which I grew up, was always called my given name by the priest when I approached the Chalice. I'm wondering if he did this just because he knew me and just because I was a little boy? In my new church, when I approach, instead of giving my name as Don, I give them the name that was included as sort of a second middle name on my baptismal certificate, "John." It IS correct to do this, isn't it? Or is it also appropriate for the priest to call you by your given name, even if it's not one found in The Bible?

 

[choirfiend]

I think that's ok, especially seeing as there are all these early saints that could be the source of the name "Don." Some priests do that, some don't.

[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donald (Donivald) July 15
8th cent. A holy man who with his nine daughters, 'the Nine Maidens', lived as a hermit in Ogilvy in Scotland.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donat (Dunwyd) Aug 7
? The patron saint of St Donat's or Llandunwyd in Glamorgan in Wales[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donata, Paulina, Rustica, Nominanda, Serotina, Hilaria and Companions Dec 31
? A group of Roman women martyred in one of the early persecutions. Their relics were enshrined in the catacombs of the Via Salaria.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian and Rogatian May 24
+ 299. Two brothers of Nantes in Brittany martyred under Diocletian.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian Aug 7
? 4th cent. Second Bishop of Châlons-sur-Marne in France.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian, Praesidius, Mansuetus, Germanus, Fusculus and Laetus Sept 6
5th century. Orthodox driven out of Africa into exile by Hunneric the Arian King of the Vandals. At that time the number of exiles reached nearly five thousand in a single year.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian (Donas) Oct 14
+ 390. Born in Rome, he became Bishop of Rheims in France from 360 to 390. His relics were translated to Bruges in Belgium in the ninth century and he has since been venerated as the patron-saint of Bruges.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus, Secundian, Romulus and Companions Feb 17
+ 304. A group of eighty-nine martyrs who suffered under Diocletian. They were martyred in Porto Gruaro, not far from Venice in Italy.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus, Justus, Herena and Companions Feb 25
3rd cent. A group of fifty martyrs who suffered in North Africa under Decius.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus and Hilarinus Aug 7
4th cent. St Donatus was the second Bishop of Arezzo in Italy. St Hilarinus was a martyr in Ostia.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus Aug 7
+ c 660. A monk at Luxeuil in France, he became Bishop of Besançon in 624. He did much to encourage monasticism and founded a monastery dedicated to St Paul in Besançon.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus Aug 19
+ c 535. Born in Orleans in France, he lived as a hermit on Mt Jura near Sisteron in Provence.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus of Fiesole Oct 22
+ 874. Born in Ireland, he went on pilgrimage to Rome and became Bishop of Fiesole near Florence in Italy. [/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donnan (Dounan) and Companions Apr 17
+ 618. St Donnan was a monk at Iona with St Columba and founded a monastery on the Island of Eigg in the Inner Hebrides, off the west coast of Scotland. He and his fifty-two monks were massacred by heathen raiders on Easter Sunday 618.[/FONT]

 

[DonVA]

I think that's ok, especially seeing as there are all these early saints that could be the source of the name "Don." Some priests do that, some don't.

[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donald (Donivald) July 15
8th cent. A holy man who with his nine daughters, 'the Nine Maidens', lived as a hermit in Ogilvy in Scotland.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donat (Dunwyd) Aug 7
? The patron saint of St Donat's or Llandunwyd in Glamorgan in Wales[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donata, Paulina, Rustica, Nominanda, Serotina, Hilaria and Companions Dec 31
? A group of Roman women martyred in one of the early persecutions. Their relics were enshrined in the catacombs of the Via Salaria.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian and Rogatian May 24
+ 299. Two brothers of Nantes in Brittany martyred under Diocletian.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian Aug 7
? 4th cent. Second Bishop of Châlons-sur-Marne in France.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian, Praesidius, Mansuetus, Germanus, Fusculus and Laetus Sept 6
5th century. Orthodox driven out of Africa into exile by Hunneric the Arian King of the Vandals. At that time the number of exiles reached nearly five thousand in a single year.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatian (Donas) Oct 14
+ 390. Born in Rome, he became Bishop of Rheims in France from 360 to 390. His relics were translated to Bruges in Belgium in the ninth century and he has since been venerated as the patron-saint of Bruges.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus, Secundian, Romulus and Companions Feb 17
+ 304. A group of eighty-nine martyrs who suffered under Diocletian. They were martyred in Porto Gruaro, not far from Venice in Italy.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus, Justus, Herena and Companions Feb 25
3rd cent. A group of fifty martyrs who suffered in North Africa under Decius.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus and Hilarinus Aug 7
4th cent. St Donatus was the second Bishop of Arezzo in Italy. St Hilarinus was a martyr in Ostia.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus Aug 7
+ c 660. A monk at Luxeuil in France, he became Bishop of Besançon in 624. He did much to encourage monasticism and founded a monastery dedicated to St Paul in Besançon.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus Aug 19
+ c 535. Born in Orleans in France, he lived as a hermit on Mt Jura near Sisteron in Provence.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donatus of Fiesole Oct 22
+ 874. Born in Ireland, he went on pilgrimage to Rome and became Bishop of Fiesole near Florence in Italy. [/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial, helvetica, san-serif] Donnan (Dounan) and Companions Apr 17
+ 618. St Donnan was a monk at Iona with St Columba and founded a monastery on the Island of Eigg in the Inner Hebrides, off the west coast of Scotland. He and his fifty-two monks were massacred by heathen raiders on Easter Sunday 618.[/FONT]

That'll teach me to question my parents! Thanks for the information. and the very long list! With so many Saints on that list, including one named Donald, I wonder why they gave me that additional name of John at my baptism?

 

[choirfiend]

Because I bet they didn't know about that list, and neither would have the priest who baptised you!!

I say either name is good!
But what do I know?!

 

[DonVA]

Because I bet they didn't know about that list, and neither would have the priest who baptised you!!

I say either name is good!
But what do I know?!

<laffin'> You knew where to find the list!

 

[choirfiend]

Yea, but I'm searching 43 years after you were born, and the internet didnt exist then for your priest to search it...Dont be too hard on 'em!

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

I was reading a very interesting article at www.holy-trinity.org/general/names.html

Let me quote:

With the progressive dechristianisation of society, the use of the expression 'Christian name' is becoming less and less common and is being replaced by 'first name' or 'forename.' Not so long ago Roman Catholics always gave their children saints' names. Even Protestants used to give their children names only if they appeared in the Bible, Old Testament or New. Thus Jonathan, David, Jeremy, Ruth, Judith, Esther, Rebecca, Rachel, Deborah, Abigail and Sarah all became popular names in Protestant-based societies. In Orthodox and Catholic societies, they sound rather Jewish and although they are saints' names, they are rare, even in monasteries.

I had noted this rarity myself, and while I had not linked the rarity to an avoidance of a Jewish-sounding name, the link makes sense.

[Note! I am not advocating or condoning anti-Semitism. I am recognizing that most Jews are not practising Christians, and that historically Christians have avoided names that were Muslim or Jewish (ie. not Christian) or that simply didn't sound Christian, even if they were.]
​

While these kinds of concerns are less of an issue today, simply because fewer religious groups are holding to any kind of naming tradition, there might be a similiar concern re. Protestantism. Not that Protestants are not Christian, but that many Orthoconverts wish to distinguish themselves from their previous church homes.

In a North American context, the use of OT names "sounds" Protestant (note the quotation above). Is this an issue for the parents out there?

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I was reading a very interesting article at www.holy-trinity.org/general/names.html

Let me quote:

I had noted this rarity myself, and while I had not linked the rarity to an avoidance of a Jewish-sounding name, the link makes sense.

[Note! I am not advocating or condoning anti-Semitism. I am recognizing that most Jews are not practising Christians, and that historically Christians have avoided names that were Muslim or Jewish (ie. not Christian) or that simply didn't sound Christian, even if they were.]
​

While these kinds of concerns are less of an issue today, simply because fewer religious groups are holding to any kind of naming tradition, there might be a similiar concern re. Protestantism. Not that Protestants are not Christian, but that many Orthoconverts wish to distinguish themselves from their previous church homes.

In a North American context, the use of OT names "sounds" Protestant (note the quotation above). Is this an issue for the parents out there?

While let me answer as a hopeful future parent.

I don't want to give my kids common names like David, Stephen, John, or even my own name Andrew. However, I am just doing that because I don't want to make my kids names sound too boring. But I am not setting myself out to make sure people don't think my kid is Protestant or Catholic.

If we were to no longer use certain names because they are too common among Non-Orthodox, than we would be giving up certain Saints, and no longer honor some pretty important ones. And I don't think that is right at all.

Also, I think that's not true that we Orthodox do not use OT names. Here is a list of a few OT names I find to be big among us. Joseph, Michael, Gabriel, Seraphim, Daniel and Elijah. Also note their translations from other countries.

 

[Khaleas]

While let me answer as an hopeful future parent.

Well, I thought there was something fishy about all these names thrown out there...
Let us know when congrats are in order... we'll be waiting.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Well, I thought there was something fishy about all these names thrown out there...
Let us know when congrats are in order... we'll be waiting.

Haha
We sure will.