1. Saying Goodbye to a Great Staffer: Edial
    Please help me wish Edial a wonderful blessed journey as he steps down from CF staff.
    His footprint on our ministry will always remain but his presence will be greatly missed. I'm sure he will come around as a member to all his favorite forums but for now please join me at his profile page to wish him many thanks for the years of service he has brought to us all.
    All of us on CF staff will miss him dearly!!
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
  • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
  • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
  • Access to private conversations with other members.

We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Names of Blasphemy - - Not What You Think

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by NightHawkeye, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    Attempting to understand the meaning of "names of blasphemy" in Revelation 13:1 has revealed that Revelation 13:1 has quite varied translations, and that the meaning of blasphemy is more akin to slander, or simply a "lie". Here are some translations for Rev 13:1.
    TNT And I stood on the sea sand. And I saw a beast rise out of the sea, having vij heads, and x horns, and upon his horns x. crowns, and upon his head, the name of blasphemy.
    GWT I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns on its horns. There were insulting names on its heads.
    WEB And he took up a position upon the sands of the sea-shore. Then I saw a Wild Beast coming up out of the sea, and he had ten horns and seven heads. On his horns were ten kingly crowns, and inscribed on his heads were names full of blasphemy.
    KJV And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    NIV And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
    NAS And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.
    ASV and he stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and on his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.
    Note the ambiguity about who is standing on the sea sand - is it the dragon or is it John? Also ambiguous is how many names of blasphemy there are - just one or as many as ten? The Greek word here for blasphemy - βλασφημίας - has been frequently translated into slander (Matt 15:19, Mark 7:22, 1Tim 6:4), although the GWT translates it here as simply "insulting".

    Assuming βλασφημίας refers to a country's name (which seems most likely) what sort of names might fit the description? Any name which is demonstrably false, or contradictory, might be a candidate.

    Names such as:
    People's Republic of China
    Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
    Democratic People's Republic of Korea
    Republic of Cuba
    Socialist Republic of Vietnam
    People's Republic of Kampuchea (Cambodia)
    German Democratic Republic (East Germany)
    People's Republic of Hungary
    Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
    People's Republic of Poland

    None of these are, or were, republics, even in a broad interpretation of the word. All were totalitarian; most were simple dictatorships. In other words, the names are all demonstrably false. All are pretentious, grossly inaccurate and misleading ... remarkably like the GWT translation for Revelation 13:1: "There were insulting names on its heads."

    Compare against the following:
    Commonwealth of Australia
    French Republic
    Kingdom of Spain
    Kingdom of Norway
    Kingdom of Sweden
    Republic of Finland
    Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
    Islamic Republic of Iran
    Islamic Republic of Pakistan
    Republic of India
    Republic of South Africa
    Federal Republic of Germany
    Canada
    Republic of Iceland
    Greenland
    Republic of Korea

    Regardless of whether one disagrees with the method of governance within any of these countries, these names are generally accurate and descriptive.


    .
     
  2. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    It's worth noting that the Soviet Bloc consisted of exactly seven nations - Russia plus the satellite states of:
    East Germany
    Poland
    Czechoslovakia
    Hungary
    Romania
    Bulgaria

    Additionally, the three states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania continued to be recognized as independent by most western nations, despite the Soviet's official claim that they were officially within the Soviet Union.

    So, altogether the Soviet Bloc consisted officially of seven nations, but also included another three nations which were "headless", so to speak, as the Soviets refused to recognize their sovereignty although most of the world apparently continued to do so ... altogether ten nations.

    Reference: Wikipedia - Eastern Bloc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  3. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    Assuming the first beast manifested with the Warsaw pact / Soviet bloc nations, then the second beast is logically NATO. Although NATO formed in 1949, four years after - and in response to - the Soviet bloc, the second beast is said to have only two horns, therefore it can reasonably be said to have formed with the European Union. The two horns then would be the United States and the European Union.

    It is clear in Revelation 13 that although the first beast forms before the second beast, the first beast transcends the second and it is the first beast which controls the world:

    Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    So, it would seem that the first beast is Marxism/Communism/Socialism. Now, as for the second beast:

    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    This is where in time we seem to be - the secular socialist states of America and Europe.

    13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    As you go to the "winter festivals" at your kids' and grandkids' schools ask yourself what is being worshipped there. (Hint: socialism)

    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    China, in particular, underwent a bloodbath to purge itself of those who refused to worship the beast of Marxism. Despite the collapse of the USSR, Marxism is thriving. Even a brief glimpse of TV or movies will reveal the vigor of socialism.

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Again, this already happened in both the USSR and China. And it seems all too likely to happen here.

    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    ... sigh ...
     
  4. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    not buyin' it.

    sorry.


    Revelation 17: 8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
    9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
    10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
     
  5. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    LOL.

    Don't blame ya ...

    So, let's look at Revelation 17, which you reference.
    Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    Looks like the beast out of the sea, the first beast of Revelation 13, the one with the blasphemous/insulting/deceptive names. So, what else do we know about the whore/beast? ... and what is the difference between the whore and the beast?
    Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    Hmm ..., that sure seems to fit Marxism and the USSR doesn't it? Purges, re-indoctrination camps, death camps.
    Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    Again, it fits. The USSR spawned not just the Warsaw pact / Soviet bloc states, but Communist China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Cambodia, etc. The USSR, as a super-power, proliferated Marxism/socialism throughout the world. That's an undisputable fact.

    Now, consider that the Soviet Union had seven leaders:
    - Lenin
    - Stalin
    - Kruschev
    - Brezhnev
    - Andropov
    - Chernenko
    - Gorbachev
    Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
    - Putin - World leader but not really of USSR, just Russia. Yet, he was KGB in Soviet Union. Again, it fits ...

    Do ya really think the Soviet Union wasn't a beast diametrically opposed to God?

    .
     
  6. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Mystery Babylon is not the USSR or Communism. Isaiah 47 defines her as Roman, the last empire into whose hands God gave His people, Israel. A very large, rich and prominent portion of that empire still remains and maintains control over a billion people worldwide.

    The beast is what she rides and what will turn on her and destroy her with fire because the devil hates her and so does God. The beast is a devil-led governmental conglomerate - the NWO.
     
  7. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    ... sigh ...

    And the NWO is different from Marxism/Communism/Socialism how, exactly?


    .
     
  8. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    The NWO will be that, yes. Until it is given a mouth, then it will be a "theocracy".
     
  9. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    Already here ...
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
    Coming soon ...


    .
     
  10. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    While the beast system is all around us, there is no global government established. And, from the moment the established beast is "given a mouth" (the antichrist) there is only 42 months before destruction of said beast and those who follow him by our Lord and Savior.
     
  11. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    OK. It is necessary to move past denial now, trial ...

    The world government has already been established.

    You already realize, of course, that a rogue government is in control here, but apparently don't realize the same forces are already in control elsewhere as where. Consider that the European Union is undergoing the same fanatacism as here in the USA.

    YouTube - Nigel Farage - True Patriot - Calls E.U. Crooks ...Dangerous

    What's happening now is not so much the establishment of the NWO, but rather tightening of the reigns.


    .
     
  12. dana b

    dana b Newbie

    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    19
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    The "7 mountains" are the seven millenniums.(4000BC-3000AD)

    "five are fallen"- John wrote this during the 5th millenium after Adam which was from Jesus Christ until 1000AD.

    "the other is yet to come"- The other is the 6th millennium from 1000AD until 2000 AD When John was writting Reveltions It had not yet come.

    The "8th" is and is not. The Biblical sequence always goes from 1 to 7 and then reapeats. So the number 8 is and also is not. 8 is a new beginning. Gen.8 begains on Mt Ararrat again.
     
  13. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Listen, I agree that this NWO has been taking shape for a long time now. I agree that it is on the very cusp of being implemented.

    It is the departure of the church and the destruction of gog that brings on the global government and the antichrist.

    The kingdom of the beast is currently "conceptual" or "spiritual" or "it's out there but not fully implemented" and it won't be until it has a devil-run "mouth" and ten non-kings to run it. Even then, they only get 42 months before they are all destroyed.

    So, it's here but it isn't. I believe this is why the beast is described in heaven, standing before Spiritual Israel, preparing to devour the church, in Revelation 12 and then as the story continues into Revelation 13, we see the devil cast into the earth, setting up a "kingdom" and enslaving those that remain.
     
  14. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Nice try but impossible.

    There are ten kings. 3 are uprooted by one, the 8th king, who is the antichrist.
     
  15. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

    Messages:
    29,161
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Methodist
    Trial, one of the repeating patterns of biblical prophecy is that the fulfillment often doesn't match the expectations. We could have a very long discussion on why that is so, but it is a fact.

    I'm not given to prophesy or see into the future (although I am preparing for difficult times in the very near future). I can only look at what has occurred. I endeavor to stay with verifiable facts. Truth is just what it is, not necessarily what we would like it to be ...


    .
     
  16. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Yeah, like the fact that nearly 2000 years after the fact, people still don't get that the abomination of desolation referred to Israel's desolation that has lasted "until the time of the end". Blame it on anti-semitism and replacement theology. People need to just stick to Scripture.
     
  17. dana b

    dana b Newbie

    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    19
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    ten kings=10 fingers of man?
     
  18. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    The ten kings are exactly who Scripture says they are:

    12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.



    38And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
    39And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
    40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
    41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
    42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
     
  19. dana b

    dana b Newbie

    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    19
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
     
  20. trialbyfire

    trialbyfire New Member

    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    30
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    As near as I can tell, "one hour" means "a short time".

    The antichrist will take over.
     
Loading...