My Forbidden Fruit Challenge

[AV1611VET]

I just read this in another thread:

The Adam and Eve story is a parable. The apple is science.

How many of you theistic evolutionists agree with this?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I just read this in another thread:
How many of you theistic evolutionists agree with this?

You "just" read that? A post from 2002?
Well, at least you didn't perform the usual necromancy.

And it's a funny perspective btw. Never heared such an interpretation.

 

[AV1611VET]

And it's a funny perspective btw. Never heared such an interpretation.

Well if Genesis 1 is an allegory, I'd like to know what this tree represents if not science.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Well if Genesis 1 is an allegory, I'd like to know what this tree represents if not science.

Only in your own interpretation of it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Only in your own interpretation of it.

There is a very important bit of information about the nature of sin in that story. One is guilty of sin when one knows that something is bad and, yet, chooses it. If the thing is bad but one doesn't know it, one doesn't count it as sin to choose it. Just an unfortunate occurrence.

Let's take an example. Stepping out into the living room naked when guests are present . . . people would be aghast if I did that. It would be a sin.

Let a child of one year do it, and nobody thinks the child has committed a sin. The child didn't know any better, yet.

Adam and Eve started worrying about being naked after eating the fruit, and it was just them. It would appear their new understanding lacked some of the nuances it could have had.

Voting for (insert inappropriate candidate name here) would have/will cause great harm. But many who so voted did so in complete ignorance of the harm their vote potentially represented, so it was not sin. Just an unfortunate occurrence.

The human condition is such that we learn about bad consequences having established strong habits and preferences we don't wish to give up. So we don't. But once we learn of the harm we are causing, to continue the harm is . . . sin.

Knowledge, then, occasions the spiritual fall of mankind.

The sin part also extends to refusal to learn when the learning could have taken place. Denial in the face of plain facts in order to keep one's comfortable practices . . . still a sin.

Examples abound. Denial of global warming as caused by humans is a nice example.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

There is a very important bit of information about the nature of sin in that story. One is guilty of sin when one knows that something is bad and, yet, chooses it. If the thing is bad but one doesn't know it, one doesn't count it as sin to choose it. Just an unfortunate occurrence.

Let's take an example. Stepping out into the living room naked when guests are present . . . people would be aghast if I did that. It would be a sin.

Let a child of one year do it, and nobody thinks the child has committed a sin. The child didn't know any better, yet.

Adam and Eve started worrying about being naked after eating the fruit, and it was just them. It would appear their new understanding lacked some of the nuances it could have had.

Voting for (insert inappropriate candidate name here) would have/will cause great harm. But many who so voted did so in complete ignorance of the harm their vote potentially represented, so it was not sin. Just an unfortunate occurrence.

The human condition is such that we learn about bad consequences having established strong habits and preferences we don't wish to give up. So we don't. But once we learn of the harm we are causing, to continue the harm is . . . sin.

Knowledge, then, occasions the spiritual fall of mankind.

The sin part also extends to refusal to learn when the learning could have taken place. Denial in the face of plain facts in order to keep one's comfortable practices . . . still a sin.

Examples abound. Denial of global warming as caused by humans is a nice example.

... okay?

 

[~Anastasia~]

The very act of disobedience creates "knowledge of good and evil" in a person who has never before chosen anything evil.

Eve could know evil, because she had just done it. If God had not forbidden it, it would not have been evil.

I think the choice to disobey is the important factor, not an actual piece of fruit. And whether you want to consider the story as literal or as an allegory, it works either way (though there can be breakdowns in other points).

I can't see "science" as fitting in at all, unless one wants to claim that science and faith are mutually exclusive and antagonistic to one another.

 

[pilgrimage]

Why did they turn it into a pie and divide the pieces

 

[Paul Finch]

I can't see "science" as fitting in at all, unless one wants to claim that science and faith are mutually exclusive and antagonistic to one another.

How can science fit into a fairy story? the whole idea of a fairy story is to tell a story that is full of magic and fantasy.

 

[~Anastasia~]

How can science fit into a fairy story? the whole idea of a fairy story is to tell a story that is full of magic and fantasy.

Well, I was saying that I can't see the fruit as referring to science at all, whether in a metaphorical or a literal interpretation. God was not and is not opposed to scientific inquiry in general.

If you see the Scriptures as a fairy story, then why bother asking the question at all?

 

[Paul Finch]

Well, I was saying that I can't see the fruit as referring to science at all, whether in a metaphorical or a literal interpretation. God was not and is not opposed to scientific inquiry in general.
If you see the Scriptures as a fairy story, then why bother asking the question at all?

Unless of course it contradicts the Bible then science is wrong by default, science and reality should never be allowed to get in the way of something people want to believe.

If you can show that scripture is not just a long list of fairy stories then I will not refer to it as such.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Unless of course it contradicts the Bible then science is wrong by default, science and reality should never be allowed to get in the way of something people want to believe.

If you can show that scripture is not just a long list of fairy stories then I will not refer to it as such.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind with someone other than me.

And I'm afraid it's not my place to prove anything to you.

Respect would be appreciated and appropriate, however.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Unless of course it contradicts the Bible then science is wrong by default, science and reality should never be allowed to get in the way of something people want to believe.

If you can show that scripture is not just a long list of fairy stories then I will not refer to it as such.

By the way, Paul, I just noticed that you are new here at CF. Welcome to the forums.

You are welcome to post in this area, as a non-Christian. By the way, if there's ever any question for you, the Statement of Purpose should be stickied at the top of each forum area, giving the rules for conduct in that particular area. If you ever have any questions or need any help, feel free to ask.

I hope your posts can provide mutual benefit to both yourself and other members here at CF. And once again, welcome.

 

[AV1611VET]

By the way, Paul, I just noticed that you are new here at CF.

Consol is not new here.

He has more sockpuppets than Jim Henson.

Here is one of his posts from nine years ago:

Hands up all of those who feel sorry for this man.

Well you shouldn't be, because he has passed into the realms of fantasy,
he is not amongst us anymore, he is only waiting to be received into the
hands of his lord, and that's what religion can do to a body.

Religion is indiscriminate, it affects every child it touches, some, like HisWordIsMySword
have had their brains fried, he doesn't know which way is up, his mind has been
taken over by the bible, I bet he can only talk using 'thee' and 'thou'.

I was reading about 'Heaven's Gate' the other day, poor sad people looking for
something to lean on, this had nothing to do with religion, but the game is the same,
people trying to find something that is missing in their lives, reaching out to
anyone or any thing that can give them hope.

I know every child is not cared for as they should be when they are young,
and I was very lucky to end up able to think straight, and not be a religious nut,
or any kind of nut for that matter, I am not riddled with phobias and doubts,
so I know I can count myself lucky, very lucky indeed.

That's why I can see religion for what it is, a crutch, yes a crutch,
""what are you talking about? I don't need a crutch""
well if you believe in an all powerful being who lives, we don't know where,
what would YOU call religion, if not a crutch?

Religion has got a lot to answer for, because it does more harm than good.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Consol is not new here.

He has more sockpuppets than Jim Henson.

Here is one of his posts from nine years ago:

Well, if that is true ... mocking Christianity falls under blasphemy and if not amended would get the sock banned sooner or later.

Pity though ...

At any rate, I didn't think a long discourse in reply was called for.

Back to your topic ... ?

 

[Paul Finch]

Well, if that is true ... mocking Christianity falls under blasphemy and if not amended would get the sock banned sooner or later.

I am not who AV says I am but I am sure he thinks I am because I have seen in the short time I have been here that asking a simple question can amount to mocking Christianity, I can easily see that if I ask something that might make a Christian think it could well be a banning offence.

 

[AV1611VET]

I can easily see that if I ask something that might make a Christian think it could well be a banning offence.

But you won't let that stop you, will you?

 

[Paul Finch]

But you won't let that stop you, will you?

So you think it's true as well.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you think it's true as well.

You would know.

All I pointed out is you having more sockpuppets than Jim Henson has Muppets.

I don't know if it's because you're being banned, or if it's because you have MPD, or what the reason is.

And frankly, it's none of my business.

This bears repeating:

Is it any wonder I have as much (or more) respect for Consol, as I do any 10 atheists (or 100 agnostics) put together?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Why did they turn it into a pie and divide the pieces

Its all they knew how to do.