My Concern for God's People

[Christsfreeservant]

I see so many people praying for God’s protection over the physical nation of Israel, the Jewish nation, who as a people group have rejected Jesus as the Christ, who have denied Jesus Christ as their Lord, the Promised One of Israel, the promised seed of Abraham. These people are praying for the Jewish nation that God will grant them victory over their enemies. Yet, according to the Scriptures, they, as a physical nation, are the antichrist because they deny Jesus as the Christ (though a small minority believe in Jesus) (1 John 2:22). So, they are no longer God’s chosen people.

I see so many people standing with the physical nation of Israel, who, as a nation, deny Jesus is the Christ, the Promised One of Israel. And then they stand with the Jewish nation against, sometimes militantly, anyone opposing or coming against this antichrist nation, and against anyone who is not standing with the Jewish nation in support of them and against their enemies. Some will even make death threats against those belonging to Christ by genuine God-given faith in Christ if they do not support the Jews.

What is wrong with this picture? Does the New Testament teach us that we, as followers of Jesus Christ, are to support the antichrist Jewish nation against their physical enemies? No! Does it teach us that we are to pray God’s protection over this antichrist nation, and that we should pray for them to have victory over their enemies, and that we should call this unholy and ungodly nation “the chosen of God”? No! God cut them off from Israel because of their unbelief. But they can be grafted back into Israel if they turn their hearts to faith in Jesus as the Christ (Romans 11:16-24).

What did Paul tell the Galatian Christians who were being influenced by the Judaizers that they had to be more like Jews and do as the Jews do? He told them plainly that not everyone physically descended from Israel and from Abraham are the children of God, for it is not the children of the flesh (the physical descendants of Abraham) who are the children of God, the children of Promise, but it is all who belong to Christ by faith in Jesus Christ who are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the Promise God made with Israel.

And he told them that Jerusalem, representing the Jewish nation, is now of Hagar, the slave woman, who stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is from above, of the free woman (Sarah) is the mother of all who believe in Jesus Christ. And the slave woman’s son (all who reject Jesus as the Christ, Jew or Gentile) will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son (believers in Christ). The antichrist Jews are no different from their Arab neighbors, in God’s eyes.

So, please, please read the New Testament Scriptures on the subject of the physical nation of Israel and who they are in the sight of God in the Messianic age. For the New Testament teaches that it is all who believe in Jesus as the Christ who are now heirs according to the promise God made with his people Israel. And all who deny that Jesus is the Christ are not part of God’s people Israel. They are the antichrist (1 John 2:22). And if they are the antichrist, which they are, they are the enemies of God’s chosen people, who are those of genuine faith in Jesus Christ as Lord of their lives. So the Jewish antichrist nation are our spiritual enemies, not our friends.

[Rom 9:4-8; Gal 3:16,26-29; Gal 4:22-31; John 8:18-19,38-47]

God’s People Today

So, who is biblical Israel, God’s chosen people today, who we should be praying for and supporting against her antichrist enemies? She is all who have trusted in Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior of their lives, who have been crucified with Christ in death to sin and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin, but now as slaves to God and to his righteousness. She is all who are walking according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh in walks of obedience to her Lord, whether Jew or Gentile by physical birth, for God made us one in Christ.

[Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; Luke 9:23-26; Matt 7:21-23]

So, what does the New Testament teach about who is God’s holy nation today? And who is it that we are to pray for and support? And who are we to support against her enemies? It is only those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (Jew and Gentile) who are now God’s chosen people Israel today. We are his temple, and the Scriptures teach that if anyone destroys that temple (believers in Jesus), God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy and we are that temple by genuine faith in Jesus Christ.

We are God’s chosen race, a royal priesthood, God’s holy nation, a people for his own possession. We who believe in Jesus Christ are the temple of God. And we are his people. We are God’s chosen ones. We are a people for God’s own possession. Once we were not a people (us Gentiles), but now we are God’s people. Once we had not received mercy, but now we have received mercy. For God, by his grace, via the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ made both Jew and Gentile one people by faith in Jesus Christ.

And we are to be a holy people unto God, and we are not to unite ourselves in unholy unions with the ungodly of this world, which includes the physical nation of Israel who denies Jesus is the Christ, and is thus the antichrist, according to the Scriptures. We are not to be in agreement with them. We are not to be in support of them in their physical battles with their physical enemies, because they are antichrist, as a nation, and they do not believe in the God of Abraham – Father, Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit. For when we support them, especially against their enemies, we are supporting the enemies of God. Please, please take this to heart!!! 2 Corinthians 6:14-18

[1 Co 3:16-17; 2 Co 6:14-18; Eph 2:14-22; Eph 3:6; Col 3:12-15; Tit 2:14; Heb 8:8-10; 1 Pet 2:9-10; John 8:18-19,38-47; Rom 9:4-8; Rom 11:17-25; Gal 3:16,26-29; Gal 4:22-31; Eph 2:11-18; Eph 3:6; 1 John 2:22]

Seek the Lord

An Original Work / July 20, 2012
Based off Isaiah 55

“Come to Me all you who thirst; come to waters.
Listen to Me, and eat what’s good today,
And your soul will delight in richest of fare.
Give ear to Me, and you will live.
I have made an eternal covenant with you.
Wash in the blood of the Lamb.”

Seek the Lord while He may be found; call on Him.
Let the wicked forsake his way, in truth.
Let him turn to the Lord, and he will receive mercy.
Freely, God pardons him.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,”
declares the Lord, our God.

“My word that goes out of My mouth is truthful.
It will not return to Me unfulfilled.
My word will accomplish all that I desire,
And achieve the goal I intend.
You will go in joy and be led forth in peace.
The mountains will burst into song… before you,
And all of the trees clap their hands.”

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

There is nothing wrong praying for the nation of Israel. Hundreds of killed, thousands of wounded, we pray for those who lost close ones, we pray for God's healing. For support and supplies, not just for Israel, but for civilians in Gaza also. The women and children who got abducted and raped.

Evil happened so we pray for God to bring justice.

Btw, God has not forsaken the nation of Israel. Romans 15 8 For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God's truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, 9 and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written,
“Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.”
10 And again it is said,
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”

One third of ethnic Israel will be saved according to Zechariah 13.

I also recommend Ezechiel 38, read the whole chapter to see what awaits in near future, if it's not happening already.

Just few verses from Ezechiel 38 8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. 9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

There is nothing wrong praying for the nation of Israel. Hundreds of killed, thousands of wounded, we pray for those who lost close ones, we pray for God's healing. For support and supplies, not just for Israel, but for civilians in Gaza also. The women and children who got abducted and raped.

Evil happened so we pray for God to bring justice.

Btw, God has not forsaken the nation of Israel. Romans 15 8 For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God's truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, 9 and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written,
“Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.”
10 And again it is said,
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”

One third of ethnic Israel will be saved according to Zechariah 13.

I also recommend Ezechiel 38, read the whole chapter to see what awaits in near future, if it's not happening already.

Just few verses from Ezechiel 38 8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. 9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.

Please read the Scriptures I posted. Thank you. And yes, this was not saying we should not pray for people. We should pray for all people. The problem is that they are praying that God will protect the physical nation of Israel (the Jewish nation which is antichrist) and that he will grant them victory over their enemies. But they as a nation are the enemies of God who are also enemies of Christians, so that's like praying that God will give victory to the antichrist against us who are believers in Jesus Christ. It is praying against the will of God and against those of us who are serving the Lord Jesus Christ with our lives and in support of the antichrist. And yes, those Jews who don't believe in Jesus now can be grafted back to Israel by faith in Jesus Christ, and by no other way.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Please read the Scriptures I posted. Thank you. And yes, this was not saying we should not pray for people. We should pray for all people. The problem is that they are praying that God will protect the physical nation of Israel (the Jewish nation which is antichrist) and that he will grant them victory over their enemies. But they as a nation are the enemies of God who are also enemies of Christians, so that's like praying that God will give victory to the antichrist against us who are believers in Jesus Christ. It is praying against the will of God and against those of us who are serving the Lord Jesus Christ with our lives and in support of the antichrist. And yes, those Jews who don't believe in Jesus now can be grafted back to Israel by faith in Jesus Christ, and by no other way.

I read the verses you posted. The Church has not replaced Israel. The Jews are enemies of gospel, but not of Christians. Some people blame the Jews for crucifying Christ, but we are all guilty of that.

I replied with a counter argument that according to scriptures, God has not abandoned Israel and His covenants to them. There is a good reason ethnic Israel is back in their country. Once the age of Church ends (rapture) God's attention will be fully on Israel oncd again. For Christians to pray for God to protect Israel is in accordance to His word.
Nevertheless I know I will stand before God and give Him an account for the things I just said.

 

[zelosravioli]

"... (the Jewish nation which is antichrist) ... But they as a nation are the enemies of God who are also enemies of Christians, so that's like praying that God will give victory to the antichrist against us who are believers in Jesus Christ... "

You could use the term antichrist in a 'very broad sense' to include practically everyone who isn't a believer - if you 'wanted' to.

1st John uses antichrist in both broad and in singular terms. But it does not make sense to pick out one nation as the antichrist in light of so many other nations, peoples, and forms of opposition and non belief. It is neither biblical or sensical to call Israelites enemies in a post 1st century, post Mohammed, post inquisition, post 1776, post holocaust, modern world, 2000 years later. Our understanding, support and empathy for Israel and the Jew, has matured, I would hope, since the middle ages. And remember for Centuries many Christians persecuted the Jews precisely bcse of such anti-Israel sentiment. In fact I find your remarks and theology troubling.

Israel 'as a nation' might not embrace Jesus as their Savior, but labelling a nation of millions of individuals as all antichrist was not Johns intention when he warned of antichrists.

Israel is not hostile to Christians, and Christians are able to live in relative peace with jews even in Israel. Meanwhile we have many people in our own country who are hostile to Christ and Christians, such as with atheists and the far Left for instance. Meanwhile you have 1.8 billion Islamists, many of whom are openly hostile and violent to both Jews and Christians (You also have 1.7 billion Buddhists and Hindus, who are not 'believers' in the loose sense of 1st Johns 'antichrist').

 

[Christsfreeservant]

You could use the term antichrist in a 'very broad sense' to include practically everyone who isn't a believer - if you 'wanted' to.

1st John uses antichrist in both broad and in singular terms. But it does not make sense to pick out one nation as the antichrist in light of so many other nations, peoples, and forms of opposition and non belief. It is neither biblical or sensical to call Israelites enemies in a post 1st century, post Mohammed, post inquisition, post 1776, post holocaust, modern world, 2000 years later. Our understanding, support and empathy for Israel and the Jew, has matured, I would hope, since the middle ages. And remember for Centuries many Christians persecuted the Jews precisely bcse of such anti-Israel sentiment. In fact I find your remarks and theology troubling.

Israel 'as a nation' might not embrace Jesus as their Savior, but labelling a nation of millions of individuals as all antichrist was not Johns intention when he warned of antichrists.

Israel is not hostile to Christians, and Christians are able to live in relative peace with jews even in Israel. Meanwhile we have many people in our own country who are hostile to Christ and Christians, such as with atheists and the far Left for instance. Meanwhile you have 1.8 billion Islamists, many of whom are openly hostile and violent to both Jews and Christians (You also have 1.7 billion Buddhists and Hindus, who are not 'believers' in the loose sense of 1st Johns 'antichrist').

I am teaching what Paul taught and what Jesus taught regarding the Jews who did not believe in Jesus Christ. That is the specific subject here, and for the same reasons that Paul and Jesus taught what they did. Later I taught on the subject of antichrist, covering a much larger ground, as you have suggested, which you can read here: Antichrist (also in the blog section of CF).

 

[zelosravioli]

Christsfreeservant wrote "...Yet, according to the Scriptures, they, as a physical nation, are the antichrist because they deny Jesus as the Christ (though a small minority believe in Jesus) (1 John 2:22).. " (From Christsfreeservant OP above)

Scripture does not call the nation of Israel the antichrist - 'you' are saying that. And you are putting that into the text, it is you teaching that here, and it is not in the scripture (whether you taught it later, or something, is irrelevant, as you are said it in the first paragraph of your post).

In a 'very' loose broad sense, all unbelievers, by definition, do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, and deny Him - so by that definition - me and you, and even the disciples, were under the spirit of antichrist 'before we believed' in this very broad sense. But that is not the sense John was writing about in 1st John (only 1John uses the term antichrist, a total of 4 times).
References to an antichrist in 1John are vague at best, for no one is 'NAMED' in the text. It seems John is warning us of those who were 'actively' teaching or preaching against Christ, or imitating Christ. It doesnt make sense for John to warn us of 'anyone and all' who have yet to accept Christs humanity and divinity, as you have to do in order to arrive at your 'Israel is antichrist' position.

----------------
Christsfreeservant wrote. ".. Jerusalem, representing the Jewish nation, is now of Hagar...The antichrist Jews are no different from their Arab neighbors, in God’s eyes"

Paul is saying the two covenants 'are alike' (Gal 4) 'in the same rank with', 'one is like the other', similar pairs, but they are 'not the same'. Nor are the Covenants the same. Arabia is not Jerusalem, Hagar is not Sarah, and Ishmael is not Abraham.
Pauls use there is only for comparison - comparison to the 'heavenly' Jerusalem - which is above and not in slavery like the two in this metaphor.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

I am teaching what Paul taught and what Jesus taught regarding the Jews who did not believe in Jesus Christ. That is the specific subject here, and for the same reasons that Paul and Jesus taught what they did

Are you sure you interpret the scripture correctly? Scripture must be interpred by Scripture.

Jeremiah 31 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

35 Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord of hosts is his name:
36 “If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever.”

37 Thus says the Lord:
“If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel
for all that they have done,
declares the Lord.”

Thus we clearly see God will never ever abonden the nation of Isral, and even today, He has His elect there. And no, this is not about the Church.

There are other prophecies in OT where God states clearly He will at the end gather Israel again. Zechariah 12 & 13. Ezechiel 38 &39. Look at Hosea also where God divorces His wife Israel, but takes her back again. Have a good think about this, and then think again what you calling the nation of Israel. It is the Christians who pray to God for Israel's protection doing the right thing.

 

[zelosravioli]

1st John is warning believers of the lying person, persons* and or the lie itself.
John calls the person, persons and the lie itself The Antichrist.
By *persons John is speaking of ‘certain’ false apostles, teachers, Satan himself, and or the false messiahs that were already present at that time. There is no sense of John calling ‘all humans who have a misguided understanding of the Godhead and Jesus’ as the antichrist.
John defines what he means by antichrist, and who they are, in vs 2:18-19. The antichrist is ‘coming’ and ‘many’ have already appeared. They have gone 'out from us’ And so it is, many were false ‘christians’ (not Israel as a nation, as you say)

“Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us… 22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist”

John is warning believers of those ‘having went out from ‘us’. He is warning them of false brothers going out from within the believers. And its true, there were teachers who left the Church and went on to preach false doctrines, like the gnostics. And as it is to this day, most cult leaders were in the church before they left churches to go preach their false doctrines.

Your ideology may be referencing Matthew Henrys commentary, as no other commentaries Ive seen would define 'every' person who denies Christs Divinity and such as antichrist, as Henry irresponsibly says: “Every man is an antichrist”
Matthew Henry, although a good emotional commentary, it is primarily a preacher with an old worldly puritan presbyterian commentary slant - it is not very ‘theological’ whatsoever. Note though Henry states ‘every’ ‘.. man is an antichrist, who denies the Person..” Not just some people. And nothing in his commentary suggests Israel is the antichrist. Note Henry does suggest praying for all people “let us pity and pray for those who deny the Godhead of Christ”

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Antichrist - antíxristos (from 473 /antí, "opposite to, in place of" and 5547 /Xristós, "Christ") – properly, opposite to Christ; someone acting in place of (against) Christ; "Antichrist." Definition: antichrist (one who opposes Christ). Usage: antichrist, either one who puts himself in the place of, or the enemy (opponent) of the Messiah (source: biblehub.com interlinear).

“Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? this one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son; every one who is denying the Son, neither hath he the Father, he who is confessing the Son hath the Father also.” 1 John 2:22-23 Young’s Literal Translation

Jesus speaking to the Jews: “Jesus answered, ‘You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.’” “I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.” “You are doing the works your father did.” “Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me.’” “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.” “Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:18-19,38-47 ESV (abbreviated, condensed)

Antichrist: Antichrist

 

[Christsfreeservant]

1st John is warning believers of the lying person, persons* and or the lie itself.
John calls the person, persons and the lie itself The Antichrist.
By *persons John is speaking of ‘certain’ false apostles, teachers, Satan himself, and or the false messiahs that were already present at that time. There is no sense of John calling ‘all humans who have a misguided understanding of the Godhead and Jesus’ as the antichrist.
John defines what he means by antichrist, and who they are, in vs 2:18-19. The antichrist is ‘coming’ and ‘many’ have already appeared. They have gone 'out from us’ And so it is, many were false ‘christians’ (not Israel as a nation, as you say)

“Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us… 22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist”

John is warning believers of those ‘having went out from ‘us’. He is warning them of false brothers going out from within the believers. And its true, there were teachers who left the Church and went on to preach false doctrines, like the gnostics. And as it is to this day, most cult leaders were in the church before they left churches to go preach their false doctrines.

Your ideology may be referencing Matthew Henrys commentary, as no other commentaries Ive seen would define 'every' person who denies Christs Divinity and such as antichrist, as Henry irresponsibly says: “Every man is an antichrist”
Matthew Henry, although a good emotional commentary, it is primarily a preacher with an old worldly puritan presbyterian commentary slant - it is not very ‘theological’ whatsoever. Note though Henry states ‘every’ ‘.. man is an antichrist, who denies the Person..” Not just some people. And nothing in his commentary suggests Israel is the antichrist. Note Henry does suggest praying for all people “let us pity and pray for those who deny the Godhead of Christ”

See response #10

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Are you sure you interpret the scripture correctly? Scripture must be interpred by Scripture.

Jeremiah 31 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

35 Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the Lord of hosts is his name:
36 “If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever.”

37 Thus says the Lord:
“If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel
for all that they have done,
declares the Lord.”

Thus we clearly see God will never ever abonden the nation of Isral, and even today, He has His elect there. And no, this is not about the Church.

There are other prophecies in OT where God states clearly He will at the end gather Israel again. Zechariah 12 & 13. Ezechiel 38 &39. Look at Hosea also where God divorces His wife Israel, but takes her back again. Have a good think about this, and then think again what you calling the nation of Israel. It is the Christians who pray to God for Israel's protection doing the right thing.

The covenant that God spoke of is the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant God cut all Jews out of Israel who denied that Jesus is the Christ, the promised one of Israel, and he grafted into Israel all who believed in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Messiah, and that is what the Scriptures I referenced are teaching. And he made Jew and Gentile one people, one covenant people by faith in Jesus Christ. And Paul taught that only those who believe in the Christ, the Messiah, are now God's covenant people, and all those who do not believe in Christ are no longer God's covenant people. But they can be grafted back into Israel by faith in Jesus Christ. So please read the Scriptures I posted, for this is what they teach.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Christsfreeservant wrote "...Yet, according to the Scriptures, they, as a physical nation, are the antichrist because they deny Jesus as the Christ (though a small minority believe in Jesus) (1 John 2:22).. " (From Christsfreeservant OP above)

Scripture does not call the nation of Israel the antichrist - 'you' are saying that. And you are putting that into the text, it is you teaching that here, and it is not in the scripture (whether you taught it later, or something, is irrelevant, as you are said it in the first paragraph of your post).

In a 'very' loose broad sense, all unbelievers, by definition, do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, and deny Him - so by that definition - me and you, and even the disciples, were under the spirit of antichrist 'before we believed' in this very broad sense. But that is not the sense John was writing about in 1st John (only 1John uses the term antichrist, a total of 4 times).
References to an antichrist in 1John are vague at best, for no one is 'NAMED' in the text. It seems John is warning us of those who were 'actively' teaching or preaching against Christ, or imitating Christ. It doesnt make sense for John to warn us of 'anyone and all' who have yet to accept Christs humanity and divinity, as you have to do in order to arrive at your 'Israel is antichrist' position.

----------------
Christsfreeservant wrote. ".. Jerusalem, representing the Jewish nation, is now of Hagar...The antichrist Jews are no different from their Arab neighbors, in God’s eyes"

Paul is saying the two covenants 'are alike' (Gal 4) 'in the same rank with', 'one is like the other', similar pairs, but they are 'not the same'. Nor are the Covenants the same. Arabia is not Jerusalem, Hagar is not Sarah, and Ishmael is not Abraham.
Pauls use there is only for comparison - comparison to the 'heavenly' Jerusalem - which is above and not in slavery like the two in this metaphor.

Please see response #10

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

The covenant that God spoke of is the New Covenant.

The new covenant is not made with the Church; it is made with the same people the old covenant was made with. It is made with Israel. “I will make a new covenant with the Church”—is that what it says? No—“with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.”

Jeremiah plainly used the words “Israel” and “Judah” to refer to the Northern and Southern Kingdoms which would one day be united again through this New Covenant. Furthermore, by sandwiching the description of the New Covenant between other promises that refer to literal, historical locations such as “Samaria” (Jer. 31:5), and “Tower of Hananel” (Jer. 31:38), what’s unmistakable is that Jeremiah was speaking to the actual ethnic nation of those physically descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The future restoration of the nation of Israel is certain, and the New Covenant is that guarantee (cf. Jer. 31:37, Rom. 11:26).

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. Israel came out of Egypt, not the Church, the Church did not exist back then.

If you want to know what will happen with Israel next according to the scripture, read and study Zechariah 12-14, or you can watch this sermon where brother MacArthur explains the passage

 

[zelosravioli]

I have the same Greek lexicon, and it proves the definition of antichrist does not fit Israel - like Christsfreeservant claims.
Neither does the greek fit with Christsfreeservants vast bucket of antichrists, which is practically every nonbeliever in the world by his definition, as he wrote on his page about antichrists:

What does it mean to be antichrist? It means to be against Christ, to be his enemy, to contradict him, to be opposed to him, to be in opposition to him. And it is all those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, the Promised seed of Abraham, but not just verbally, but by their lifestyles.... Definitely, if anyone denies that Jesus – the only begotten Son of God, born of the virgin Mary – that he is the Christ (and God), the promised seed of Abraham, that person is antichrist regardless of whether he is Jew or Gentile by physical birth. (Christsfreeservant)

Antichrist - antíxristos (from 473 /antí, "opposite to, in place of" and 5547 /Xristós, "Christ") – properly, opposite to Christ; someone acting in place of (against) Christ; "Antichrist." Definition: antichrist (one who opposes Christ). Usage: antichrist, either one who puts himself in the place of, or the enemy (opponent) of the Messiah (source: biblehub.com interlinear).

The Lexicon above says '... someone acting in place of... one who puts himself in the place of' It is the 'person' acting in place of or in opposition to - not just any person who doesnt believe, but someone who is actively 'being an antichrist'. The antichrist is not just simply 'all those or anyone' who denies that Jesus is the Christ - it is the ones actually 'putting themselves in the place of Christ' the ones actively 'proclaiming to be Christ' - most unbelievers are not walking around proclaiming themselves to be Christ.

The ancient church thought it was Antiochus, and other forerunners were Beliar, Sammael, Mastema, and other types, or personifications of Satan himself. John uses both the singular and plural to identify that some will come teaching of a false christ and even pretending to be Christ themselves. The early church writings identify the antichrist as a false prophet and or Satan, the Beast himself.

Israel does not pretend to be Christ nor does their Messianic theology imitate or proclaim a Divine Jesus like figure as we know Him. Your calling Israel antichrist is, well horrible.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I have the same Greek lexicon, and it proves the definition of antichrist does not fit Israel - like Christsfreeservant claims.
Neither does the greek fit with Christsfreeservants vast bucket of antichrists, which is practically every nonbeliever in the world by his definition, as he wrote on his page about antichrists:

What does it mean to be antichrist? It means to be against Christ, to be his enemy, to contradict him, to be opposed to him, to be in opposition to him. And it is all those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, the Promised seed of Abraham, but not just verbally, but by their lifestyles.... Definitely, if anyone denies that Jesus – the only begotten Son of God, born of the virgin Mary – that he is the Christ (and God), the promised seed of Abraham, that person is antichrist regardless of whether he is Jew or Gentile by physical birth. (Christsfreeservant)

Antichrist - antíxristos (from 473 /antí, "opposite to, in place of" and 5547 /Xristós, "Christ") – properly, opposite to Christ; someone acting in place of (against) Christ; "Antichrist." Definition: antichrist (one who opposes Christ). Usage: antichrist, either one who puts himself in the place of, or the enemy (opponent) of the Messiah (source: biblehub.com interlinear).

The Lexicon above says '... someone acting in place of... one who puts himself in the place of' It is the 'person' acting in place of or in opposition to - not just any person who doesnt believe, but someone who is actively 'being an antichrist'. The antichrist is not just simply 'all those or anyone' who denies that Jesus is the Christ - it is the ones actually 'putting themselves in the place of Christ' the ones actively 'proclaiming to be Christ' - most unbelievers are not walking around proclaiming themselves to be Christ.

The ancient church thought it was Antiochus, and other forerunners were Beliar, Sammael, Mastema, and other types, or personifications of Satan himself. John uses both the singular and plural to identify that some will come teaching of a false christ and even pretending to be Christ themselves. The early church writings identify the antichrist as a false prophet and or Satan, the Beast himself.

Israel does not pretend to be Christ nor does their Messianic theology imitate or proclaim a Divine Jesus like figure as we know Him. Your calling Israel antichrist is, well horrible.

First of all, I am a she, not a he. I am a wife of 51 years, a mother of 4 (plus 3 spouses), and a grandmother to 14 grandchildren. And I have been a teacher of the Scriptures for 50 years, and full-time for the past 17 years. Now here is the Scripture being discussed:

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also." 1 John 2:22-23 ESV​

Taken from biblehub.com interlinear:

"A liar is a deceiver, a person who falsifies, misrepresents, distorts, misleads."​

​

"To deny is to say no, to repudiate, refuse, contradict, refuse to affirm or to confess (refuse to identify with); disown (repudiate)." ​

Me: And this involves both actions and words, but a person can confess him with words but still deny him by his actions.

And what are they denying (refusing, repudiating, refusing to affirm or to identify with)? They are refusing to accept that Jesus is the Christ, their promised Messiah, and they are refusing to identify with him, and they are refusing him as the Christ, their Lord (Owner-Master). So they are refusing to submit to him as Lord of their lives, too.

And John said that anyone denying (refusing) Jesus as the Christ is the antichrist. And in the interlinear the definition of antichrist reads: "One who opposes Christ." And to oppose him is to be against him, to be in opposition to him, to be hostile to him. So that includes anyone who is against him, and against him is against what he stands for and who he is in character and his authority over our lives and what he teaches in his word. So this includes all those who are living against him in practice. And whoever denies Christ also denies the Father. And Jesus taught about that to the Jews in John 8.

Jesus speaking to the Jews: “Jesus answered, ‘You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.’” “I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.” “You are doing the works your father did.” “Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me.’” “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.” “Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:18-19,38-47 ESV (abbreviated, condensed)

 

[zelosravioli]

The 'one', John speaks of is a specific one (The origin of the lie, probably Satan)
and the ones teaching the lie (false apostles and false Messiahs).
John has a specific person or type in mind, as in the sense of 'a definite article'. And this is a 'historic' fact as John was calling out a specific group of individuals at the time who were teaching this false doctrine; the Gnostics, who had went out from them, and those parading as Christ himself.

Like Paul said there were false apostles, and as Jesus said false Messiahs coming - these are specific persons doing the deceiving. You, as a teacher yourself, should be able to discern between the false prophets and false teachers - and those who are simply their listeners.
Its the same with false messiahs, you should be able to recognize there are false messiahs, and there are those who just follow them. They are not the same (I follow Christ, but I am not Christ)

Since the first century the church has tried to identify ‘THE’ antichrist; from Nero, to the Pope, to Hitler, to Reagan, to Obama… or the Beast, The man of sin, the serpent... the point is that the common understanding is labeling something antichrist is to label something or someone as very ‘evil’ , justifiable or not. That is what the word means to common language - and so you labeling ‘a nation of people’ as evil is horrifically irresponsible, especially in light of the fact that Isreal is often the victim of so much evil; see Hitler and antisemitism. Meanwhile much of Islam is openly hateful of Israel and truly personifies the ’spirit of antichrist; when its ‘primary’ doctrine denies the Deity of Christ.

It is irresponsible and cultic to ‘vaguely label’ groups of such vast number as evil. Muslims do that, when they call all unbelievers infidels. And many cults also have very negative labels for ‘unbelievers’. Ever since John coined the phrase and defined it; to label someone antichrist is aggressive at least, it means they are intentionally evil, deceiving, and maybe dangerous. It is not right to label a unspecific uninvolved group who arent even teachers as all evil - especially as Paul says, we were 'all' under sin, Jew, Greek, you and me.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

“But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but ‘Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.’ This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.” Romans 9:4-8 ESV

“Then you will say, ‘Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.’ That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.” Romans 11:19-23 ESV

“Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, ‘And to seeds,’ as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, ‘And to your seed,’ that is, Christ. Galatians 3:16 NASB

“They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

“So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Gal. 3:26-29

“For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise. These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother…

“Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. IT IS THE SAME NOW. But what does Scripture say? ‘Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.’ Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.” Gal. 4:22-31

“His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility... For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.” Eph. 2:14-18

“This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” Ephesians 3:6 ESV

“Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.” 1 Jn. 2:22

Jesus speaking to the Jews:

“I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” They said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

“I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.” They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:18-19,38-47 ESV

 

[anaperez]

I agree.
Yes, yesterday i was thinking that it's possible that Israel could be the antichrist.
Because
1. The name
IS\R (is or are)
ael
In a written manuscript those letters could look like
666

I know that Israel in Hebrew is written different but that is the internacional name of that nation.

2. The Bible says the antichrist will pretend to be peaceful and people would support it and that is happening always because people tend to identify ISRAEL with Jesus when, in fact, they don't believe in Jesus.
And as Israel has the "image" of being peaceful and it's not because they tend to be very interested in money and they bought the US government, and they are abusers of the people of Palestine.
Lately they are become worst till the point they are committing genocide against Palestine.

And when the "son of God" makes crimes do you think that God would be more pleased as if those crimes were done by an unbeliever?
No. God would be angrier because waited much more of them always now and in history because in history they always accumulated wealth and many times abusing workers, etc.

3. The antichrist should have an image of peace and should be the opposite.
What is the necessity of Israel to control all Palestine? Or to forced the UN to give them (using their powers of money) most of the Palestine territory in agreements that later they didn't respect?
They are too greedy, too egotistical to treat the people of Palestine with human rights. They like to abuse them till the point to commit genocide.

4. Obviously the US is an accomplice of Israel and then it could have also a punishment.

5. I think the scene of the apocalypse is a nuclear weapon against nations involved.
Massive destruction.
It sounds like the Bible.

6. Besides i believe that Jewish reject the new testament partly because they already know that there they are the antichrist.

7. One could be of one religion or another but the fact that Israel uses the label of "God's people" (pueblo de Dios) to justify crimes make me think that is a bigger sin they are committing because they are using the Bible (and God) to make and justify their crimes..... and you know.... in the Bible says.... don't use God's name in vane.... and they are using the promise of a land to kill and make genocide....

In the Bible it says "the last ones will be first ones and the first ones will be the last ones".
Israel will be punished and will be the last ones to achieve salvation.

8. Jewish don't believe in the new testament. They believe in a different God. That is in one that says "one eye for one eye and one tooth for one tooth", the God of the Jewish is more rude and cruel.
Jesus tried to be sweet offering the other cheek to the enemies but the Jewish don't think like that because in the old testament God is more rude and cruel, that's why they are making genocide against Palestine.

9. So i agree that people who believe in God shouldn't pray for them to win, to defeat Palestine because it's an abuse and an abuse is still an abuse even if "the chosen ones" commit it.

People should pray for them to make them be more sweet , less abusive.

You can't pray for abusers without supporting the abuse they are doing.
People shouldn't pray for abusers.
Jesus believers should support the weak and defend them instead of supporting abusers.

10. Seeing the "chosen ones", the people of God making genocide is just too much!!!
Who could be that blind to not see all these?
Christians (Jesus followers) don't believe in the same God of the Jewish.

 

[Beslowtoanger]

I pray for the innocent people caught in the conflict, I pray for the children, for the grieving, for the injured, for peace. The same can be said for all hostilities across the globe. Jesus Christ taught us the law of love, this is the basis for stability and peace for mankind.

The scriptures provide foresight, prophecy, truth, but I base my whole being on Jesus Christ and that is to love all, including my enemies. That’s a difficult one for those intrinsically involved in the conflicts but for me, personally, this is what I pray for.

God and peace be with you

David