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Much to the Chagrin of the Powers that be, the Tide is Further Turning Toward...

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Michie, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Michie

    Michie Manipulation Resistance Team Supporter CF Ambassador

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    ...Catholicism Thanks to Traditional Minded Anglicans



    Continued- http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/10/20/much-to-the-chagrin-of-the-powers-that-be-the-tide-is-further-turning-toward-catholicism-thanks-to-traditional-minded-anglicans/
     
    MariaRegina likes this.
  2. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    Father Pacwa (EWTN fame) mentioned that it's an Anglican "use". He said that a "rite" is attached to the ancient ways of celebrating the Mass so that there cannot be new "rites".

    But yes, the Anglican "use" is a lot more traditional than what we presently have.
     
  3. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

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    This part of the article indicates that the problems the mainstream Protestant denominations are experiencing in North America and Europe are very similar to the problems Catholicism is experiencing.

    Catholicism is growing, yes---in Africa and Asia.

    Catholicism is growing in the US, yes---because Hispanic Mexican and Central American immigrants who are already Catholic are moving here.

    There are "embers" of truth in European and North American seminaries, but I am sure that there are some "embers" in Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc. seminaries in North America and Europe, too.

    So I am confused about the premise of this article. Were it not for third world immigrants in the US and growth in Africa and Asia, the status of Catholicism in Europe and the US would not be very different at all from the mainstream Protestant denominations.

    Are we going to keep importing Catholics to keep our numbers up in the US, or are we going to find ways to make the practice of Catholicism more vibrant and meaningful to the native-born American and European Catholics?

    Are we going to let the high immigration rates make us complacent about our failure to reach so many in the US and Europe?

    I hope not.
     
  4. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    Maybe we're hoping that their zeal for the truth "catches" and once again we'll have a vibrant Faith. (When the late Pope John Paul II visited Cuba, didn't he entrust us to Our Lady of Guadalupe and indicate that perhaps we will be saved by the great Faith that is often found in the Latin American countries?)
     
  5. winsome

    winsome English, not British

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    Pope Benedict has rather upset the English Bishops by doing this behind their back without consulting them. Another example of Papal arrogance? Or just Benedict's lack of political nous?

    The Vatican opens its arms to Anglicans – and tightens its grip - Telegraph

    I have also seen a report that he is finally bringing in the TAC's - Traditonal Anglican Communion. This is not the same as the above. They have been knocking on the door for some time. I think they are mainly in Australia and USA.
     
  6. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

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    I don't think it's either really. It was done in response to groups such as the TAC petitioning the Vatican for a response. This is the response given. It's not specific to the TAC because the Vatican didn't want to just target only one group.

    Maybe the announcement could've been more effectively delivered, but even if the Anglican bishops were consulted how much help would that really be? The response would still be basically the same. They would just have 5 minutes less of "shock time" getting over the fact that it's actually happening.
     
  7. winsome

    winsome English, not British

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    Not the Anglican Bishops. He didn't consult the Catholic Bishops. Just sprang it on them. And the suggestion seems to be that not only that priests who are already married can come across as priests, but that in future married lay men can become priests in the "anglican" rite. Hows that for a slap in the face for Catholic Priests who have been ostracised for leaving the priesthood to get married?
     
  8. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina New Member

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    However, I read several online articles and news articles where it said that many Protestants were converting to Catholicism - from all different denominations. In many parishes in the USA, 50 to 100 or more adults and their children are received annually. So, it is not only those immigrants from Latin America that are causing an increase in numbers. Then an OBOB person mentioned that pro-life Catholics are having a baby boom. That will increase numbers too.

    I think the conservative Anglicans are probably experiencing a baby boom too.
     
  9. IgnatiusOfAntioch

    IgnatiusOfAntioch Contributor

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    The Catholic Church has always had rites that permit married men to become priests.

    Unfortunately for attempts at this type of spin, the anouncement made jointly with the Archbiship of Canterburry.
     
  10. NewMan99

    NewMan99 New CF: More Political, Less Charity, No Unity

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    It isn't a slap in the face in the least, unless someone wants to make a non-issue into an issue. Those who left the priesthood to get married knew the deal when they chose to become priests. They knew there was going to be an oath of celibacy when they took one. And there will STILL be one for the non-Anglican use priesthood here in the Western Church. Additionally, everyone knows that clerical celibacy is a discipline that, theoretically, can change or alter at any time. So while it may come as a surprise if and when changes occur, does that rise to the level of offense against those who took their oaths at the "wrong" time and place? Nobody changed the rules on them. The rules have always permitted what is now coming to pass.
     
  11. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina New Member

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    I agree, Ignatius. Spin factor, indeed.

    The Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury was given two weeks notice. And he did not seem ruffled as he made a joint statement with the Catholic Archbishop of Westminster.
     
  12. NewMan99

    NewMan99 New CF: More Political, Less Charity, No Unity

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    I think Winsome brings up a valid criticism, though, if the CATHOLIC Bishops were totally blindsided by this. Why would the Anglican Bishops be in the loop but not the Catholic Bishops? Maybe the Holy Father had his reasons for keeping them out of the loop on this, but it does raise an eyebrow.
     
  13. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina New Member

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    Maybe Pope Benedict and his representatives were given confidential information that a prior release of this Apostolic Constitution might muddy the waters. Several TAC members have suggested this scenario. Since some people have already twisted this news to shed a bad light on the Holy Father, what would have happened if the Vatican had leaked the news earlier?

    This in from Secundulus:

    Originally Posted by Secundulus [​IMG]
    The Anglican Communion and the Liberal Catholic Bishops would have done everything in their power to kill this initiative, just like they have done with every other attempt to reconcile Anglo-Catholics.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  14. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

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    Because Catholics who become Protestants usually don't have to go to any training sessions or have a formal "entrance" into the church, there aren't any reliable statistics to compare how many Catholics leave v.s. how many Protestants join the Church.

    People I know who are Protestants seem to change denominations with ease. When they move to a new town they visit different churches and join the one they feel the most connected to, and they don't seem to let Presbyterianism get in the way of their joining a Lutheran Church or vice versa.

    Of course I live in the Bible Belt now, which is considerably different from the northern states where I lived. When I lived in the north, the only people I knew who converted to Catholicism did so for marital reasons. As a matter of fact, when I moved to the Bible Belt and met people who became Catholics for other reasons, I was surprised. I really didn't know such people existed, or maybe they're a recent phenomenon.

    I was born Catholic, but if I had not been born Catholic, I doubt whether the idea of becoming a Catholic ever would have occurred to me. (Of course I didn't live in the Bible Belt, where people convert even when they aren't married a Catholic, until ten years ago.)
     
  15. IgnatiusOfAntioch

    IgnatiusOfAntioch Contributor

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    Nothing is stopping them from keeping track of who enters their denomination.

    Anyway, they aren't going to come anything close to the half a million+ from TAC and other Anglican communities entering The Catholic Church at one shot. That would be pretty big for any of the protestant denominations.
     
  16. Virgil the Roman

    Virgil the Roman Traditional Catholic

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    Why should he "consult" them?
    Shouldn't they applaud this firm act of True Ecumenism? I should think so.:doh:
     
  17. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    And again I have to reiterate that it's the Anglican use. Rites were ancient--this isn't.
     
  18. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote

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    On the other hand, it might result in more vocations to Anglican Cathoic seminaries, and fewer to traditional diocesan seminaries.

    Even in the past, a few who were born Roman Catholic decided to attend Eastern Rite seminaries because they knew they would want to marry one day, or were already married. (I know one priest who did this.)

    So you might find some young men born Roman Catholic looking into the Anglican Catholic rite seminaries---and you might find that there would be some consolidation of Roman Catholic seminaries, with the empty buildings being sold to Anglican Riters.

    It just seems like pure logic to me--how many young men with vocations to the priesthood wouldn't prefer one that left their options for a family and children open rather than closed?
     
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