Money , is it the root of all evil ?

[stranger]

If the money system were just instead of corruptible and thus corrupted would not love of money not exist [since evereyone would have enough if all were equal and all shared ,with concern for all others' welfare and respect for what we cannot control or understand that influence our lives (notably God and Jesus and Satan for instance]

So the nature of our accepted money system [money created as debt from nothing by our privately controlled banks, not by any public-controlled government, interest charged by banks on even a hundred times what they can cover with any realisable 'asset' , from nothing with very little indeed behind it ... so that banks in theory simply must eventually fail ... and it started already , but only the people lose their money eventually, lose their houses , jobs, livelihood , not the bankers who engineered the evil corruption of our value system , money]

Thus the love of money is engineered from the money system we accept, it is teh money [whichj is now changed to teh corrupt system we have by law] that is the root of the love of money , its usury system now legally robbing and devastating the poor to feed even more to those who have no need of more , creating the rat-race by which men live without considering that it destroys love and equality between folks

Job 18:5 ¶ Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine.
6 The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him.
7 The steps of his strength shall be straitened, and his own counsel shall cast him down.
8 For he is cast into a net by his own feet, and he walketh upon a snare.
9 The gin shall take him by the heel, and the robber shall prevail against him.
10 The snare is laid for him in the ground, and a trap for him in the way.

Ecclesiastes 9:12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

Altering the money system by law to an unjust system is the main net the wicked have set for the poor , but without looking at the consequences in destroying other's lives and destroying the viability of the earth for life's complex web ... they have indeed fallen for their own trap, they aim to own the world, but what use when they have destroyed it for themselves and their progeny alongside destroying it for others...

Most men have followed the way of the unjust balances because they think it makes life easier and is modern progress, but it is hardly progress to live by destroying other people's lives and destroying the earth's 'ecosystems' on which we ultimately depend for food and life .. the 'son of man' , as distinct from those who follow God, set the trap and fell into it ... God's plan though goes beyond the destruction of this earth by this evil most already believe in:

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The bible has much to say about the evil of our modern corrupt money system which tempts many to love money more than love ... but it is the money itself [becoming worthless eventually inevitably ,because it was created with almost nothing behind it , from nothing of value, for no cost, that corrupts man's sense of value ... that is the problem guaranteed in every sense for our future to destroy what even the rich think of as their security in place of confidence in what God has said ...

 

[stranger]

The equality, sharing, justice, of theoretical communism has never been realised in this world , always an elite emerges to run so-called communist countries and the elite ruling class live a very different life than the masses ... it just never gets to be true communism ... it has always been just as corrupt as capitalism although in principle is has things in common with what Jesus described as the way of life the saints should lead ...

What Jesus taught was theocracy though, the rule of God, the rule of love between folks that implies equality, sharing, caring, justice, peace ... he also pointed out that this world would unite against that idea , all but a few saints would end up worshiping a system ['beast'] created by Satan [Rev 13:3-4] , that means all world religions too, including the countless versions of 'christian' doctrine created by sinners for sinners [not saints]

In fact international bankers already own half the wealth in the world [between just 227 elite families - World Bank figures] and the rest of the world is already in unpayable debt to them for nothing they did but manipulate major governments to give them more power by far than any government , the power to create money from nothing, engineer war for personal profit, crate world slump as we see today.. move toward one world government and religion combined by progressively removing the rights of anyone to protest without being disappeared - note for instance the USA 'Patriot' acts -

It matters not a lot, we know from scripture [if we accept it] who establishes His kingdom and the nature of His government and that all will bow the knee and confess Jesus Christ and be saved from the evil of this world in the end , we also know however that the kingdom is not established in this world but in the new earth after this earth and heavens has passed away...

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Dojima]

Money is per definition empty promises: Money creation

 

[stranger]

Money is per definition empty promises: Money creation

Yeah, and the point where debt cannot continue to exponentiate on our finite planet has already been reached.... we have broken the web of nature in the name of 'progress' and 'profit' , but no-one will profit because as nature collapses our food disappears .... more and more until we starve as scripture indicates we shall.

Example : One third of food in the USA depends upon bees for pollination.

Mechanised farming processes have stressed out natural and artificially maintained bees in USA to the extent that they are dying in droves ...

The only country in the world where this is not yet happening is Australia, USA already has to fly in by jet the bees it needs for a third of its food...

there is little doubt that Australia will lose its bees eventually by the same cuase that has spread to every other country in the world ...

We are on the brink of disaster in a man-made world slump, and still governments talk about returning to exponential growth ... and mankind is supposed to be intelligent ?

It isn't that we aren't warned either ,IPCC has warned how little time is left to change our way of life in order to prevent the now-observed and recorded onrushing accelerating devastation of our planet ... God warned us long ago and knew that we would not listen until we were devastated by our own greed [when in fact there always was plenty for all if only the few would share with the many - 227 families now own half the wealth in the world and control the lives of most people on the planet as wage-slaves ... the people who do all the work are now in unrepayable debt to European international bankers who just create money from nothing ,backed only by unrepayable debts from the whole world ]

To say it is madness is to understate the evil of killing ourselves for nothing in the name of endless greed by a few ,that they carefully label 'progress'...

Our seas are dying, our land losing its fertility , yet people expect nature to feed us despite we are killing more species daily than at any time in the past except in mass extinctions of life ...

We have to change or die, and it is rather clear that we are going to not change... God already told us that He will not be impressed by more than a few [Matt 7:14] in this earth, in this life ... we have a little time to stop sinning before Jesus returns and the 'wrath of God' in which He allows men to see the consequences of greed [in 'capitalism', now dominating the planet with its empty value system]

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ezek 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Cyber Scrap: Al Gore and U.N. climate panel IPCC chaired by Dr. Rajendra K. Pachauri win Nobel Peace Prize

Concerns over notes on biofuels in IPCC AR4 Mitigation report and SPM

SCIENTISTS WARN GLOBAL WARMING NOW UNSTOPPABLE - mirror.co.uk

 

[Dojima]

That was a great post.
I am starting to subscribe to the idea that the industrial revolution and industrial society (~1800-present) is a historical anomaly, and that humanity is destined to return to a simpler way of life, and a much lower population. This wasn't necessarily inevitable though. If we had had a free market and sound money, the massive depletion of resources over the last two centuries could have been invested productively, ensuring future prosperity. Instead, we took the easy route, installed an inflationary monetary system that allowed society to live above its means by borrowing against the future to fund the present, thereby causing an epic misallocation of resources (millions of excess homes, shopping malls, etc.), which ensures that the future prosperity won't be sufficient: a ponzi scheme that collapses in the end.
Now you see why they had to invent the global warming story to justify lowering our overconsumption.

 

[stranger]

That was a great post.
I am starting to subscribe to the idea that the industrial revolution and industrial society (~1800-present) is a historical anomaly, and that humanity is destined to return to a simpler way of life, and a much lower population. This wasn't necessarily inevitable though. If we had had a free market and sound money, the massive depletion of resources over the last two centuries could have been invested productively, ensuring future prosperity. Instead, we took the easy route, installed an inflationary monetary system that allowed society to live above its means by borrowing against the future to fund the present, thereby causing an epic misallocation of resources (millions of excess homes, shopping malls, etc.), which ensures that the future prosperity won't be sufficient: a ponzi scheme that collapses in the end.
Now you see why they had to invent the global warming story to justify lowering our overconsumption.

8 ¶ Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!
9 In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.
10 Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah.
11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
16 But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.
17 Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat.
18 ¶ Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
25 Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:
27 None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken:
28 Whose arrows are sharp, and all their bows bent, their horses’ hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind:
29 Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it.
30 And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if one look unto the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.
1 ¶ In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 ¶ Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 ¶ And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

Global warming ts real enough, the polar ice is melting at ever-faster rate , sea-levels rising correspondingly, weather getting more brutal, more chaotic , making farming unreliable and decimating nature ... but that isn't the biggest problem at all, not even close.

Just consider that our money system must collapse , its demise is guaranteed by borrowing more from the future at ever-faster rate and it is unrepayable ...the value of money is degraded ever-faster too until the real value of money created from nothing is reached ... we have only numbers now , ever-increasing debt of the whole world , USA owes 50 trillion dollars [3 times the whole rest of the world's debt] ... where did that money come from ? - NOWHERE , it doesn't exist , yet tax-payers are crippled paying interest on it ... it is more than the biggest scam in the universe, it is a farce , but it is a farce that will kill billions when it ends , we live today off the deaths of people tomorrow , likely even our own deaths , because we believe the lies on bits of paper and in banks' machines , but they are provably lies.

When the system breaks people are lost because so very many people do not know any longer just do not know how to live without money , it has become the mark of the beast in mind and action ... people expect the supermarkets to fill with food for their nothing money despite nature that creates food is dying and just stops working as key species disappear , as they are already...

CO2 from cars and industry has reached toxic levels in the oceans, the food web is broken at the base ,so all species that depend upon that food base must dwindle and disappear ... cycles of food production in teh oceans are disrupted as the weather changes and again the creatures die without food appearing where it did last year at that time of year... whole ecosystems move north as the sea warms, but it is moving four times faster than they can keep up with...

And mankind knows all this, scientists study it, but politicians do nothing because they would be unpopular if they said people really need to stop using cars and relying upon mechanised agriiculture and big industry ... it is just not possible for our political system to cope with the level of change required to prevent devastation that will bring mass death to mankind, not millions ,but billions ...

Money and Debt

Crash Course Chapter 7: Money Creation - banks | Crash Course Videos at Chris Martenson - banks, Federal Reserve, fractional reserve banking, interest, loans, money creation

Again the bible prophesies massive vulcanism that will blot out most of the sun and stars and turn the moon red by night , we know that vulcanism increased last time the polar ice melted , yet do we stop? NO, we are not even planning on stopping, governments are planning to return to exponential growth as soon as the slump ,that the money system created.
is over.

Evil greed has gotten out of hand , a few will own and rule the world, but what use to them when it can no longer support life as we know it ?

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Satan will yet unite the world [Rev 13:3-10] ,not just politically, but religiously, a Christ figure claiming to be Jesus returned [but Jesus said the antichrist must come first] , a power only a few saints will not accept or worship ... that is the climax of united world religion of sinners, and it necessarily is continuous with our world religions of sinners of today - note though that God requires this , it is the snare by which Satan is taken for blasphemy [2Thess 2] and dies as a man [Ezek 28, Isaiah 14] to be shut away in death for a thousand years.

We should not be surprised then at what is coming , because it has been spoken of for millennia ... equally we should not go into denial, but watch the world for signs coming as prophesied and wait for spirit baptism, and keep ourselves from sinning ... lest we die sinners and miss the millenium without Satan around...

many useful references on this site:-
Dark Optimism

 

[Dojima]

[/b][/u]Global warming ts real enough, the polar ice is melting at ever-faster rate , sea-levels rising correspondingly, weather getting more brutal, more chaotic , making farming unreliable and decimating nature ... but that isn't the biggest problem at all, not even close.

The polar ice caps are freezing not melting, there are more polar bears now than there were 50 years ago, sea levels are not rising. The weather has always been chaotic, this century is not unusual.

Just consider that our money system must collapse , its demise is guaranteed by borrowing more from the future at ever-faster rate and it is unrepayable ...the value of money is degraded ever-faster too until the real value of money created from nothing is reached ... we have only numbers now , ever-increasing debt of the whole world , USA owes 50 trillion dollars [3 times the whole rest of the world's debt] ... where did that money come from ? - NOWHERE , it doesn't exist , yet tax-payers are crippled paying interest on it ... it is more than the biggest scam in the universe, it is a farce , but it is a farce that will kill billions when it ends , we live today off the deaths of people tomorrow , likely even our own deaths , because we believe the lies on bits of paper and in banks' machines , but they are provably lies.

Yup.

When the system breaks people are lost because so very many people do not know any longer just do not know how to live without money , it has become the mark of the beast in mind and action

That's interesting, money is the mark of the beast?
"And he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark" - Revelation 13:17

CO2 from cars and industry has reached toxic levels in the oceans, the food web is broken at the base ,so all species that depend upon that food base must dwindle and disappear ... cycles of food production in teh oceans are disrupted as the weather changes and again the creatures die without food appearing where it did last year at that time of year... whole ecosystems move north as the sea warms, but it is moving four times faster than they can keep up with...

Hmm.. partly. But the seas don't warm. Species extinct because their habitat is destroyed.

And mankind knows all this, scientists study it, but politicians do nothing because they would be unpopular if they said people really need to stop using cars and relying upon mechanised agriiculture and big industry ... it is just not possible for our political system to cope with the level of change required to prevent devastation that will bring mass death to mankind, not millions ,but billions ...

They are doing that. Global warming is the beginning of it. It is the justification for regulations of our consumption, cars, industry, it is supposed th throttle our standard of living. Maybe that is a noble cause, but be aware that globa warming is not real, it is only an excuse.

Evil greed has gotten out of hand , a few will own and rule the world, but what use to them when it can no longer support life as we know it ?

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

And what do you think the global warming regulations do? They control you, limit your consumption, shut down the economy, justify population reduction so the people will be easier to control, all is aimed at control and power, regulations are the problem not the solution.

We should not be surprised then at what is coming , because it has been spoken of for millennia ... equally we should not go into denial, but watch the world for signs coming as prophesied and wait for spirit baptism, and keep ourselves from sinning ... lest we die sinners and miss the millenium without Satan around...

You got that right.

many useful references on this site:-
Dark Optimism

I will try to check them out, also the ones in earlier posts.

 

[Dojima]

Watch this. Actually watch all of it.
MichaelCrichton.com | The Smithsonian Associates - Fear and Complexity and Environmental Management in the 21st Century

 

[stranger]

The polar ice caps are freezing not melting,

The melt was sufficient to open the NW passage ... that is anomalous and worse than predicted . Also the area of ice is not the only thing that counts, refreezing of the huge melted area clearly does not yield the same thickness

there are more polar bears now than there were 50 years ago, sea levels are not rising.

More specifically the number of incidents of bears interacting with Inuits has increased , that does not necessarily mean increased numbers, but shows that the bears are more desperate and risk getting closer to mankind in hope of finding more food.

The weather has always been chaotic this century is not unusual.

measured increae in sea surface temperature causes storms to feed more energy from the sea and the increased tempearture gradients accentuate the instability of the weather system ... the weather is naturally chaotic, but the extent and rapidity of variation has increased because of ocean warming... equally ocean warming has increased sea volume by expansion of water with temperature .

Part of the problem with making definite statements is that we simply do not know enough to make models that predict all the local effects of global warming , the models just don't include enough data or all the processes involved ... what we can say is that in te last century global warming has suddenly and dramatically increased and is acceperating , due mainly to excess CO2 from mechanisation by mankind , that extra energy trapped in the earth does affect the weather , making it more extremme on average and less stable ...

runaway global warming was limited inthe past apparently by increased vulcanism from changes in pressure of water on tectonic plates as the polar ice melted , but even that is a very complicated situation , depending on for instance how much shear force is present at the time in major cracks in the earth's surface and whether large infrequent volcanoes are close to the point of eruption or not... it is just too complex and requires too much data we don't even collect , to be able to predict, but what one can say is that it would make sense not to go there ,at least until we are confident taht it won't happen in the way it did at the last polar ice melt ... volcanic activity can cause effects more devastating than nuclear winter , there are prophesies in scripture which correspond to massive vulcanism in the future ... it seems that people will not act prudently now , so we shall see if we like reaping what we have sowed ... if one believes the scripture than then God will destroy the earth , so our real greatest problem is pleasing Him , a better reason for changing our ways to less unloving ones than are our simplistic imprudent ways of today ...

 

[Dojima]

The melt was sufficient to open the NW passage ... that is anomalous and worse than predicted . Also the area of ice is not the only thing that counts, refreezing of the huge melted area clearly does not yield the same thickness

Good popint.

More specifically the number of incidents of bears interacting with Inuits has increased , that does not necessarily mean increased numbers, but shows that the bears are more desperate and risk getting closer to mankind in hope of finding more food.

That article may have beed bad, there are far more polar bears than 50 years ago.

measured increae in sea surface temperature causes storms to feed more energy from the sea and the increased tempearture gradients accentuate the instability of the weather system ... the weather is naturally chaotic, but the extent and rapidity of variation has increased because of ocean warming... equally ocean warming has increased sea volume by expansion of water with temperature .

Temperature measurements are not accurate because measuring stations were put in the periphery of cities, the cities have grown into the measuring stations, cities are warm.

the earth has been cooling for the last 7 years.

From 1715 sun activity took up again after the coldest period in 10.000 years, the temperature in central England (was the only place that was measured at that time) rose by four degrees Fahrenheit in 35 years. That is a rate a rate of warming nine times as fast as the warming in the whole of the 20th century, 1.3 degrees. And that was before the industrial revolution began and we could have anything to do with it.

The amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere is only half of what the computer models that this entire case for global warming bases on are using.

 

[stranger]

That article may have beed bad, there are far more polar bears than 50 years ago.

The article is deliberately misleading you , 50 years ago polar bears were being overhunted... this was stopped in the 1970s ... the low numbers were due to overhunting , nothing to do with global temperatures...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT]No one really knows how many polar bears there are because they are hard to count, and at times hard to find. Researches estimate that there are between 22 000 and 40 000 polar bears in the world. Close to half of the polar bear population lives in Canada.
Polar Bear

Polar bears put on weight by catching seals when the sea is iced over , they have to eat enough to last them through the period when the ice melts ... less ice means less food weakening the bears and so causing more deaths and shorter life expectancy of older and especially younger bears.

Skilled Inuit hunters have been lost too in unusual numbers, their familiar routes through the ice becoming dangerous through atypical melting of the sea ice .

That article was carefully written to mislead , there are many people paid by Exxon and other big companies to put out false propaganda against global warming ... IPCC accepts human-caused global warming now:-

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Reports 2007 - National Wildlife Federation

Global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientific opinion on climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Temperature measurements are not accurate because measuring stations were put in the periphery of cities, the cities have grown into the measuring stations, cities are warm.

Again this supposed phenomenon has been investigated , there is plenty of data outside cities to which this doesn't apply ... Exxon paid people to put out these misleading assertions to delay the acceptance of global warming as long as possible.

the earth has been cooling for the last 7 years.

deliberately selecting local highs and lows is another trick played on those who do not check up on the longer term , just one of several unscrupulous trick played on the public because Exxon did not want the truth to come out and was prepared to pay a million dollars to have that happen.

From 1715 sun activity took up again after the coldest period in 10.000 years, the temperature in central England (was the only place that was measured at that time) rose by four degrees Fahrenheit in 35 years. That is a rate a rate of warming nine times as fast as the warming in the whole of the 20th century, 1.3 degrees. And that was before the industrial revolution began and we could have anything to do with it.

Sun activity variation has been examined as a possible cause and eliminated as yet another red herring paid for with dollars. It is not a single local temperature rise which matters, but the global average [reflecting teh heat retained by the earth, not teh changes in distribution of that heat energy]

The amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere is only half of what the computer models that this entire case for global warming bases on are using.

The computer modes themselves have their problems it is true, but there is nothing wrong with the data they use , it's error range is far less than +_50% ,else it would not be used.

Again, I think possibly you are reading articles paid for by Exxon, and failing to read the extensive disproof of the objections raised... try this site for detailed exacting rebuff of countless tricks that have been played and for details of some more serious problems which still remain :-

RealClimate

 

[Dojima]

The article is deliberately misleading you , 50 years ago polar bears were being overhunted... this was stopped in the 1970s ... the low numbers were due to overhunting , nothing to do with global temperatures...

No one really knows how many polar bears there are because they are hard to count, and at times hard to find. Researches estimate that there are between 22 000 and 40 000 polar bears in the world. Close to half of the polar bear population lives in Canada.
Polar Bear

All right, if polar bears are hard to count, they can't be a sign of man-made global warming. I suggest we let this go.

That article was carefully written to mislead , there are many people paid by Exxon and other big companies to put out false propaganda against global warming ... IPCC accepts human-caused global warming now

The IPCC was founded in 1988 by people who's agenda was of question. They wanted to get back at the industrialized nations for being mean to the third world. It was the 'little guy picking on the big guy' concept, which is very common in the UN. Those are people with world government in mind.

The big companies are the ones wanting you to believe in global warming. You linked articles yourself how money is only printed paper. Why would they care about oil income, a little less paper? 227 Families Control 47% Of World's Wealth, including the oil companies. And they are quite good at lobbying governments. They don't care about paper money they want more power, they get that by making you give up your freedoms and allow for regulation controlling your life. You will one day wake up and notice that this control is not what you expected it to be. Most of the environmental things you posted are real, but man-made global warming is a story created to scare you into giving up your freedoms.
A vast majority of citizens is not concerned about global warming, yet their "representatives" all are. That is because it doesn't really matter if we believe in it. What matters is that it can be used as justification to take your freedoms.

Whenever there is "consensus science" you better run the other way.
"I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. "
"Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way."

MichaelCrichton.com | Aliens Cause Global Warming

Again this supposed phenomenon has been investigated , there is plenty of data outside cities to which this doesn't apply ... Exxon paid people to put out these misleading assertions to delay the acceptance of global warming as long as possible.

The oil companies put up a little sham to get you to believe that all data disagreeing with global warming comes from the oil companies. There are enough independent knowledgeable scientists who came up with no evidence for man-made global warming.

deliberately selecting local highs and lows is another trick played on those who do not check up on the longer term , just one of several unscrupulous trick played on the public because Exxon did not want the truth to come out and was prepared to pay a million dollars to have that happen.

Scientists are dependent on financing, global warming critics are fired or moved to small offices with no sunlight. Scientists who "agree" with man-made global warming get grands and ahead in their careers, it is an easy choice.

Sun activity variation has been examined as a possible cause and eliminated as yet another red herring paid for with dollars. It is not a single local temperature rise which matters, but the global average [reflecting teh heat retained by the earth, not teh changes in distribution of that heat energy]

The earth was warmer in 1715, and it warmed at a faster rate than today, all that before co2 could have anything to do with it. If you disregard all measurements made before co2 could have been a factor, you are bound to come to the result that co2 is a factor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk8SSqc7ekM&feature=channel_page

 

[stranger]

According to a 1998 survey of 400 biologists conducted by New York's American Museum of Natural History, nearly 70 percent believed that they were currently in the early stages of a human-caused mass extinction

Extinction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All right, if polar bears are hard to count, they can't be a sign of man-made global warming. I suggest we let this go.

I think that you missed the point, the people who deal with polar bears know that they are under stress because they cannot catch so many seals to build up reserves for their long starvation while the ice is not on the sea ... global warming has massive inertia, we cannot just stop it when we come to admit its reality ... counting bears and ignoring their weight reduction doesn't prove anything as you say , the figures are very unceratin, but looking at their weight proves a lot, looking at the ice and the deaths of Inuits through going through the softened ice does saya great deal ... things have changed , and life is much harder up North, the old ways are failing because of more extreme weather ... the extent of warming in the Summer shocked scientists, twice as much as models predicted and the ice receded record distances ... trying to ignore most of teh story and focussing on counting bears is just another tactic of those wanting to hold back action for sake of their own agendas , in my view short-sighted deceit for sake of money , at the expense of the earth which continues to become more hostile to life and will continue to do so for several decades even when/if we get around to stopping our pollution of air, sea, and land in the name of progress... each species can take so much stress , then it fails and is gone , but species depend upon each other , so other species then go to ... we are already at the point where we know we are causing this and we know it will go on for several decades beyond when we stop ... it is less than prudent to destroy nature on which we depend for food , she does vast ammounts of work for us without which we cannot live on earth... it is not sensible to destroy the massive machine of nature just for sake of a little profit of empty promises on bits of paper or in machines... mankind has simplified what life is about and come up with the wrong answer ... our stressing of nature by our way of life is going to kill us unless we look at the signs instead of inventing tricks to try and hide them
from the masses [who are the only ones who, united , can possibly stop the slaughter by coming to force governments to stop going for infinite growth]

The IPCC was founded in 1988 by people who's agenda was of question. They wanted to get back at the industrialized nations for being mean to the third world. It was the 'little guy picking on the big guy' concept, which is very common in the UN. Those are people with world government in mind.

The moves toward world government come from the international bankers in Europe and certainly they recognise the power of the UN and infiltrate it with people representing their interests , but the evidence of the IPCC is from the vast majority of scientists , specialists in the field , working to highlight that our world is under threat from the way of the international bankers ... all you are presenting is their smokescreen and red herrings that they have produced to try and delay any action which would cost them money [until they are ready to act without such massive losses , when they will change their tune and start saying how important the environment is ... their brinkmanship with our world for sake of empty money is less than prudent ... but even governments are afraid of their power- the British governmnent just accepted that its policy is taking an additional one percent chance of catastrophic damage to the planet ... something one can show is an underestimate because of restrictions placed on what data is accepted by the select committee reviewing this ... it is time we saw that this is not sensible , we should be cautious about killing nature because we cannot live without it, not increasing the risk of losing our food supply by amounts of risk that we would not accept in say flying a plane ... the earth is important ,life is important , beyond measure ... how can we sensibly work to increase the risk it will fail us instead of doing everything we possibly can to minimise the chances of destroying our planet's viability for us ???? Too many people think one can buy food with money just because nature does most of the work of feeding us for nothing , but once nature fails there will be little food and even trillions of dollars cannot buy it back then ... it is time to see that we need to become more wise in our ways, have respect for what we depend upon , that has worked harder thanus to keep us alive, but which we are destroying.

The big companies are the ones wanting you to believe in global warming. You linked articles yourself how money is only printed paper. Why would they care about oil income, a little less paper? 227 Families Control 47% Of World's Wealth, including the oil companies. And they are quite good at lobbying governments. They don't care about paper money they want more power, they get that by making you give up your freedoms and allow for regulation controlling your life. You will one day wake up and notice that this control is not what you expected it to be. Most of the environmental things you posted are real, but man-made global warming is a story created to scare you into giving up your freedoms.

Rather 9/11 was designed to make people give up their freedoms and the Patriot Acts already did that , nothing to do with global warming , and barely a murmur at the power to 'vanish' anyone without representation, trial ,rights, simply on accusation .

Human rights have indeed disappeared under cover of the threat from terrorism , not from anything to do with global warming ... but indeed big business and the bankers want USA to go on the way it is and so ignore global warming caused by ,in particular ,the American 'way of life'

A vast majority of citizens is not concerned about global warming, yet their "representatives" all are. That is because it doesn't really matter if we believe in it. What matters is that it can be used as justification to take your freedoms.

You have lost your freedoms and it was nothing to do with global warming , but the death of species will take away your ability to eat ... ten you too may regret not being more careful about listening to propaganda instead of getting back to the source and being careful about what you believe just because someone says it in public ... nature is failing because of the stress mankind puts on her , it comes back on us because she feeds us , she even gave us oil which we have mostly squandered on fighting each other instead of living comfortably in peace and safeguarding nature and our home... we allow a few to lead us the wrong way in vain greed for ever more from our planet, but the planet is dying, we are now flogging a dying horse and killing it ever faster than before ... makes no sense not to stop and change , but I have great doubts that we will ...

Whenever there is "consensus science" you better run the other way.
"I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. "

So get down and read the SOURCE science for yourself , it is unequivocal , the people who do the science are in no doubt , the ones who do the work when teh sceptics say 'but what about this' ... the ones who work in teh field know that we have gone too afr ignoring nature's screams of pain at our profligate ways , too much irresponsible pollution , even CO2 is now at toxic levels in the air ,killing the seas , which eventually comes back on us since even life on land depends utterly on life in the seas .

"Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way."

Global warming is such a big issue and contains some unknowns , it was prudent to look for consensus to bridge the gaps, and it was obtained ... the justificaton is that we simply need to be prudent about exterminating most life on earth, including ourselves , we are already delaying too long because CO2 concentration is accelerating out of control and killing the seas, we cannot stop that for decades even if we tried , but we are instead making it worse , jsut ensuring our own eventual demise with greater certainty, instead of prudently getting things under control AS PRIORITY and then learning about all the things that are missing in our models , soe of them immensely complex.

The oil companies put up a little sham to get you to believe that all data disagreeing with global warming comes from the oil companies. There are enough independent knowledgeable scientists who came up with no evidence for man-made global warming.

The arguments of those independent knowledgeable scientists have been assessed and investigated , but few bother to read the science... one cannot get to the facts by listening to the rhetoric and spin ... read the science , e.g. almost all the objections are addressed by science references here, the truth is far more useful and surprising that the political fictions and rhetoric that plague this debate :-

RealClimate

Scientists are dependent on financing, global warming critics are fired or moved to small offices with no sunlight. Scientists who "agree" with man-made global warming get grands and ahead in their careers, it is an easy choice.

Exxon paid out a million dollars to get scentists to throws clogs in the works ... the problem of corruption of science by the powers that be is massive... it does not mean that one cannot get to read the people who care more about the truth and our world than about empty dollars... but you need to stop listening to the political rhetoric and find the source material from people in the field...

The earth was warmer in 1715, and it warmed at a faster rate than today, all that before co2 could have anything to do with it. If you disregard all measurements made before co2 could have been a factor, you are bound to come to the result that co2 is a factor.

YouTube - John Coleman slams global warming (1 of 4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk8SSqc7ekM&feature=channel_page

You will not find the truth by looking only at only one side of this debate , far from ignoring past data , the very strongest evidence for global warming goes way further back than 1715 , do not get distracted by local events ... if the gulf stream slows then Britain freezes, if it accelerates then Britain warms... global warming is about the average worldwide, the total heat in the earth that is majorly increased by the greenhouse effect that is in turrn an explanation of why temperatures took off when industrialisation started with a vengeance and our destructive way of life was born [largely in ignorance then, but no more so] :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_Stick_graph
RealClimate
RealClimate

 

[stranger]

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/exxon-secrets

ExxonSecrets is a Greenpeace research project highlighting the more than a decade-long campaign by Exxon-funded front groups - and the scientists they work with - to deny the urgency of the scientific consensus on global warming and delay action to fix the problem.

 

[Dojima]

Hey, I was meaning to respond, but this takes some effort, so I'm going to do it soon.

 

[stranger]

Hey, there's no pressure, we already messed up our planet every which way we can as yet do... talking about it is just passing the time until it fails us big-time because we didn't care about anything but empty promises on bits of paper backed only by empty promises on machines ... we signed our own death warrants by committing to the motorised way of life , and it is expanding still , not even contracting., let alone stopping... every car on the roads will kill ten people in the next few decades more surely than running over them , it really wasn't worth the mass starvation that inevitably follows death often seas and rapid shifts in weather and sea current patterns ... our agriculture causes soil loss much faster than in nature
Soil Erosion Site
Trees make soil , besides making rain over the land , stabilising the land from erosion, increasing the absorption of rainfall and fertilising the ground ... we have cut down too many trees and are losing the soil, it fertility , and creating massive flooding downstream in our big rivers ... we have warmed the winters so trees die of beetle larvae that would otherwise be killed in winter and changed the pattern of the seasons to stress out nature ... the list is endless really, one could write a book just listing what mankind has done to damage our own home and ensure eventual demise of mankind, just so we could ride around in cars and have machines do the work for us for a few decades [until the easy energy runs out and we wonder why we did not put something in place before it did]

We live in the age of simple-mindedness of leaders in a world where those who control trillions of dollars say what goes by an economic model which has been proven wrong and disastrous ... sadly many regard empty money from their 'job' as more important than the truth and future of the earth as a place for mankind to live and love... we have set in motion things like CO2 pollution and damage to the ecosystem that cannot be put right in a hundred years , they will continue destroying us by calamity after calamity even if we stopped today [politically impossible, practically impossible] ... instead we are getting worse , accelerating toward our end without even most people being informed on what the true science indicates ... perhaps it is more merciful that way , Jesus points out that people will still be carrying on as normal when he comes to take the few saints [Rev 7:3-8, Jude 1:14] and then the terrible time of starvation and plagues in the 'wrath of God' , when God lets sinners see what we have caused by our ways in the world... people will continue in denial it seems right up until they die in miserable starvation and plague of what we allowed a greedy few to do to our home , dragging us along as unconcerned wage-slaves , servants of the propaganda lies that swamp out the truth...
Jesus points out that world religion goes the same way [Rev 13:3-10] ,and we already have the 'mark of the beast' in believing in our false-valued money system.

It is not only scientifically overwhelmingly 'likely' now, but prophesied also... yet scripture shows that almost all the world will continue following Satan as sinners, continue to follow the propaganda paid for by empty money... so unless one is prepared to dig deep for the truth ,one will serve God in His strong delusion of almost all mankind [2 Thessalonians 2] ... it hardly matters then unless one is moved to work very hard indeed ,against the flow of the masses, to instead follow God and cease sin and bear the rather terrible truth about the wrath of God we are bringing on our earth ourselves ,by destroying the means of life here for nothing but very transient 'convenience' [lazy poor husbandry of the earth in almost all ways we can, for sake of 'profit' which profits no-one in the terrible end of this earth]
I dunno in what way it is worth coming to terms with it now, rather than later when billions are dead, but I am moved to do so ... in principle one might stop sinning and be taken at Jesus; return but only about one in 80,000 [Rev 7:3-8]will stop sinning in all the time between Jesus' visits ... the many are saved after death as sinners [e.g, Rev 7:9-10], not at the first resurrection for the few who go the narrow way of sainthood now [Matt 7:14]...

Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.

One can easily verify that most people do not know who the House of Israel are , let alone what the gospel actually says [Heb 8:8-12] ... the prophesied pattern already is here , most will ignore it , as also prophesied ... one cannot then change what will be...