Mohammed the last prophet

[yourfriend58]

I understand from your perspective, but you have to see it from ours. He disrespected Jesus when He denounced what Jesus taught Christians to do. If you change an prophet's message and claims that He never said certain things, that quite worse than just disrespecting Him. God is not you ally when you do such a thing.
This is correct if and only if what is told about Jesus (peace be upon Him) is true .What if I say to you that the message of Jesus (peace be upon Him) was to worship only one God ?

I have heard this exact speech so many times, but I wonder if you have taken the time to understand the implications of it. For example, how can you believe in all prophets when you don't even know what they taught?
we know what was told to other prophets , we have it in the Qoran :
42.13 . He hath ordained for you that religion which He commended unto Noah , and that which We inspire in thee ( Muhammad ) , and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus , saying : Establish the religion , and be not divided therein . Dreadful for the idolaters is that unto which thou callest them . Allah chooseth for Himself whom He will , and guideth unto Himself him who turneth ( toward Him ) .
Its like saying that I love reggae but have never heard it. All you know about it is that some people have said that it is good music.

Disrespect does not have to be blatant. Even if we allow that Mohammad was sincere in his motives, he still failed to comprehend and present Christ and Christianity in its correct form
Again : we say he failed provided Christianity is correct . .

 

[peaceful soul]

you are wrong my friend islam respect the all of the prophets and his message to trust all of them

As I have pointed out, your respect, if we can call it that, emanates from a mandate from your religion and is based upon heretical teachings of historical and Biblical Christianity. You respect the person as far as you know of him but you can't say that you believe in his teachings when you don't have any of them to base your conclusion on--and for that matter, any of the other prophets, you clam to respect. You need to have the real picture of Jesus before you can honestly say that you respect Him. To believe that the contemporaries of Jesus are somehow in error in their portrayal of Him and His messages is to indict God, which is not something that is to be taken lightly.

 

[peaceful soul]

I understand from your perspective, but you have to see it from ours. He disrespected Jesus when He denounced what Jesus taught Christians to do. If you change an prophet's message and claims that He never said certain things, that quite worse than just disrespecting Him. God is not you ally when you do such a thing.
This is correct if and only if what is told about Jesus (peace be upon Him) is true .What if I say to you that the message of Jesus (peace be upon Him) was to worship only one God ?

I have heard this exact speech so many times, but I wonder if you have taken the time to understand the implications of it. For example, how can you believe in all prophets when you don't even know what they taught?
we know what was told to other prophets , we have it in the Qoran :
42.13 . He hath ordained for you that religion which He commended unto Noah , and that which We inspire in thee ( Muhammad ) , and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus , saying : Establish the religion , and be not divided therein . Dreadful for the idolaters is that unto which thou callest them . Allah chooseth for Himself whom He will , and guideth unto Himself him who turneth ( toward Him ) .
Its like saying that I love reggae but have never heard it. All you know about it is that some people have said that it is good music.

Disrespect does not have to be blatant. Even if we allow that Mohammad was sincere in his motives, he still failed to comprehend and present Christ and Christianity in its correct form
Again : we say he failed provided Christianity is correct . .

I appreciate your willingness to try to correct me, but I know that God is not in the business of giving Mohammad a revelation that corrects things that God was responsible for at the time that they happened. Whether you realize it or not, you are accusing your Allah of being incompetent and unjust in his dealings with mankind.

From your quote, I do not see any of the scriptures that these prophets brought as evidence of what the Qu'ran claims. Show me some examples like we have in the Bible of Isaiah, Jesus, Malachi, Jeremiah, etc.

Also, I know that you probably believe that Christians worship more that one god, but we don't. It is unfortunate that Mohammad did not proof text his accusations against Christians and Jews. There is no historical texts that will support your claims. Oneness does not only mean unitarian but also non-unitarian.

 

[yourfriend58]

I understand from your perspective, but you have to see it from ours. He disrespected Jesus when He denounced what Jesus taught Christians to do. If you change an prophet's message and claims that He never said certain things, that quite worse than just disrespecting Him. God is not you ally when you do such a thing.
This is correct if and only if what is told about Jesus (peace be upon Him) is true .What if I say to you that the message of Jesus (peace be upon Him) was to worship only one God ?

I have heard this exact speech so many times, but I wonder if you have taken the time to understand the implications of it. For example, how can you believe in all prophets when you don't even know what they taught?
we know what was told to other prophets , we have it in the Qoran :
42.13 . He hath ordained for you that religion which He commended unto Noah , and that which We inspire in thee ( Muhammad ) , and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus , saying : Establish the religion , and be not divided therein . Dreadful for the idolaters is that unto which thou callest them . Allah chooseth for Himself whom He will , and guideth unto Himself him who turneth ( toward Him ) .
Its like saying that I love reggae but have never heard it. All you know about it is that some people have said that it is good music.

Disrespect does not have to be blatant. Even if we allow that Mohammad was sincere in his motives, he still failed to comprehend and present Christ and Christianity in its correct form
Again : we say he failed provided Christianity is correct . .

I appreciate your willingness to try to correct me, but I know that God is not in the business of giving Mohammad a revelation that corrects things that God was responsible for at the time that they happened.
Why can't Muhamad (peace be upon Him) the last prophet? Muhamad (peace be upon Him) clarified things and established the religion of Islam that has the same origin as CHristianity : God. Whether you realize it or not, you are accusing your Allah of being incompetent and unjust in his dealings with mankind.
No ; I am not . I never accuse God . God sent Jesus (peace be upon Him) with the religion of Christianity and people who believed in that authentic religion will go to Paradise . Yet , the Bible was distorted and now ; there is another religion which is Islam with an authentic Holy Book . ANd because there is another religion (Islam) and because people have minds to think with ; they will be judged on the Day of Judgement about their concept of God and their belief .
From your quote, I do not see any of the scriptures that these prophets brought as evidence of what the Qu'ran claims. Show me some examples like we have in the Bible of Isaiah, Jesus, Malachi, Jeremiah, etc. All prophets called people to worship one God and not to associate partners with Him ; yet , CHristians say that Jesus is the son of God .

Also, I know that you probably believe that Christians worship more that one god, but we don't. It is unfortunate that Mohammad did not proof text his accusations against Christians and Jews. There is no historical texts that will support your claims. Oneness does not only mean unitarian but also non-unitarian
Sorry , I didnt understand . there are no historical texts about what?.

 

[elijah115]

This is correct if and only if what is told about Jesus (peace be upon Him) is true .What if I say to you that the message of Jesus (peace be upon Him) was to worship only one God ?

Then I'd agree with you.

We know what was told to other prophets , we have it in the Qoran

Of course you do. But we don't believe you and we don't believe the Quran. We also don't believe that we would have all the books of the Old Testament unless God wanted us to see what each prophet wrote under his inspiration. Each book that was written by all those prophets was written in different style to reflect the (natural effect) or books written by different authors. That for instance Jeremiah was written by the prophet Jeremiah is as much a historical fact as the Iliad being written by Homer. Actions speak louder than words, although muslims claim to believe all the prior prophets, you don't.

Again : you say he failed provided Christianity is correct . .

True but what evidence is there that Prophet Mohammed's message confirmed the previous prophets other than the Quran? All the books of the Old Testament certainly don't support his prophethood and they were all written by the different revelant prophets.

Why can't Muhamad (peace be upon Him) the last prophet? Muhamad (peace be upon Him) clarified things and established the religion of Islam that has the same origin as CHristianity : God.

What needs clarification? That God loved us? That we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? That Jesus died and rose again for our sins? That God in his mercy provided the Way, the Truth and the Life.

What about these verses need clarification?

RO 6:11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.

It was written before the Quran. It teaches submission to God of your mind, heart, body and soul. What new message did Mohammed bring and how did it help clarify anything?

Where Jesus say He who find his life will lose it, Mohammed's message teaches survival of the fittest. Where Jesus taught love your enemies, the Quran effectively teaches that even charity should only go to muslims. Where Jesus says, "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment" the muslims are returned to seeing everything in the flesh.

All prophets called people to worship one God and not to associate partners with Him ; yet , CHristians say that Jesus is the son of God .

Is that what christians say?

MT 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

MT 16:14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

MT 16:15 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

MT 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

MT 16:17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

If Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew said, "this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven" why would a man-made revelation make the confession: ""You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."" In addition, why would it enable anyone who read it to make that confession?

Instead it proves this statement which by inspiration from God was written 600 years before Prophet Mohammed was born, from 1 Corinthians 2:14:

14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.

What God says in advance - happens, it always has.

Again here is what the God of Heaven and Earth says:

Isaiah 41:26
Who told of this from the beginning, so we could know,
or beforehand, so we could say, `He was right'?
No one told of this,
no one foretold it,
no one heard any words from you.

 

[yourfriend58]

This is correct if and only if what is told about Jesus (peace be upon Him) is true .What if I say to you that the message of Jesus (peace be upon Him) was to worship only one God ?

Then I'd agree with you.

We know what was told to other prophets , we have it in the Qoran

Of course you do. But we don't believe you and we don't believe the Quran. IT IS UP T YOU . We also don't believe that we would have all the books of the Old Testament unless God wanted us to see what each prophet wrote under his inspiration. Each book that was written by all those prophets was written in different style to reflect the (natural effect) or books written by different authors not Prophets . different styles ? right , but what about the contradictions in there ? could they be let go unnoticed under the term " different styles"? I am sorry but I can never believe in contradictory books .. That for instance Jeremiah was written by the prophet Jeremiah is as much a historical fact as the Iliad being written by Homer. Actions speak louder than words, although muslims claim to believe all the prior prophets, you don't.WE DO .and believing in ALL Prophets is part and parcel of our religion . We have in the Qoran : 2.285 . The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and ( so do ) the believers . Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers We make no distinction between any of His messengers and they say : We hear , and we obey . ( Grant us ) Thy forgiveness , our Lord . Unto Thee is the journeying .

Again : you say he failed provided Christianity is correct . .

True but what evidence is there that Prophet Mohammed's message confirmed the previous prophets other than the Quran?
Isn't the Qoran enough? what other proof do you want other than Allah's authentic words ? All the books of the Old Testament certainly don't support his prophethood and they were all written by the different revelant prophets Are the books of the Old Testament written by Prophets??? THere is only one prophet for true Christianty : Jesus (peace be upon Him) and these books were not written by Him .

 

[elijah115]

This is correct if and only if what is told about Jesus (peace be upon Him) is true .What if I say to you that the message of Jesus (peace be upon Him) was to worship only one God ?

Then I'd agree with you.

We know what was told to other prophets , we have it in the Qoran

Of course you do. But we don't believe you and we don't believe the Quran. IT IS UP T YOU . We also don't believe that we would have all the books of the Old Testament unless God wanted us to see what each prophet wrote under his inspiration. Each book that was written by all those prophets was written in different style to reflect the (natural effect) or books written by different authors not Prophets . different styles ? right , but what about the contradictions in there ? could they be let go unnoticed under the term " different styles"? I am sorry but I can never believe in contradictory books .. That for instance Jeremiah was written by the prophet Jeremiah is as much a historical fact as the Iliad being written by Homer. Actions speak louder than words, although muslims claim to believe all the prior prophets, you don't.WE DO .and believing in ALL Prophets is part and parcel of our religion . We have in the Qoran : 2.285 . The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and ( so do ) the believers . Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers We make no distinction between any of His messengers and they say : We hear , and we obey . ( Grant us ) Thy forgiveness , our Lord . Unto Thee is the journeying .

Again : you say he failed provided Christianity is correct . .

True but what evidence is there that Prophet Mohammed's message confirmed the previous prophets other than the Quran?
Isn't the Qoran enough? what other proof do you want other than Allah's authentic words ? All the books of the Old Testament certainly don't support his prophethood and they were all written by the different revelant prophets Are the books of the Old Testament written by Prophets??? THere is only one prophet for true Christianty : Jesus (peace be upon Him) and these books were not written by Him .

The bible is a "cannon" of books, written by different authors under the inspiration of God. The Quran all came through Prophet Mohammed. You say that the bible contradicts itself, yet you based "internal contradiction" on "external disagreement with the Quran", is that right? Can the Quran which not only contradicts history (2007 AD) but itself actually tell you what the prior prophets said when it all came through Mohammed? Show me historical evidence that Jesus didn't die?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Are the books of the Old Testament written by Prophets??? THere is only one prophet for true Christianty : Jesus (peace be upon Him) and these books were not written by Him .

So how do you reckon the words/Testimony of the Lord Jesus be written down, by "Spirits"?

Isaiah 8:16 Bind thou up the testimony,--Seal the towrah amongst my disciples/03928 limmuwd.

03928 limmuwd {lim-mood'} or limmud {lim-mood'}
from 03925; TWOT - 1116a; adj
AV - learned 2, disciple 1, taught 1, used 1, accustomed 1; 6

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matthew 10:18 And, before both governor and kings, shall ye be brought, for my sake--for a witness to them and the nations.

John 21:24 This, is the disciple who beareth witness concerning these things, and who hath written these things; and we know that, true, is, his witness.

3100. matheteuo math-ayt-yoo'-o from 3101; intransitively, to become a pupil; transitively, to disciple, i.e. enrol as scholar:--be disciple, instruct, teach.

 

[yourfriend58]

The bible is a "cannon" of books, written by different authors under the inspiration of God UNder the inspiration of God??? How can I be sure ? . The Quran all came through Prophet Mohammed. You say that the bible contradicts itself, yet you based "internal contradiction" on "external disagreement with the Quran", is that right? no. Internal contradictions are sufficient enough to believe that there are contradictions (regardless of what the Qoran says)Can the Quran which not only contradicts history (2007 AD) but itself actually( the Qoran neither contradicts history nor contradicts itself )tell you what the prior prophets said when it all came through Mohammed? Show me historical evidence that Jesus didn't die?
I tell you that Jesus (peace be upon Him) didnt die because I believe what is said in the Holy Qoran : 4.157 . And because of their saying : We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary , Allah ' s messenger They slew him not nor crucified , but it appeared so unto them ; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof ; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain ,4.158 . But Allah took him up unto Himself . Allah was ever Mighty , wise

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I tell you that Jesus (peace be upon Him) didnt die because I believe what is said in the Holy Qoran :

But of course you do, and I respect that just as I respect the Baha'i faith and Orthodox Judaism, who are still awaiting on their Messiah and a New Temple.
Do Muslims also respect the Faith and beliefs of other religions other than their own religion of Islam?
Peace.

Matt 26:53 Or thinkest thou that I cannot call upon my Father, and he will set near me, even now, more than twelve legions of messengers? 54 How then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that, thus, it must needs come to pass? 55 In that hour, said Jesus unto the multitudes: As against a robber, came ye forth, with swords and clubs, to arrest me? Daily in the temple, used I to sit teaching, and ye secured me not; 56 But, this, hath, wholly, come to pass, that, the Scriptures of the prophets, may be fulfilled. Then, the disciples, all forsaking him, fled.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Reve 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fall toward the feet of Him as dead, and He places the right hand of Him upon me saying: "No be fearing! I am the first/before-most and the last. 18 and the living One! And I became dead, and behold, I am living into the Ages of the Ages, and I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death

 

[elijah115]

The bible is a "cannon" of books, written by different authors under the inspiration of God UNder the inspiration of God??? How can I be sure ? . The Quran all came through Prophet Mohammed. You say that the bible contradicts itself, yet you based "internal contradiction" on "external disagreement with the Quran", is that right? no. Internal contradictions are sufficient enough to believe that there are contradictions (regardless of what the Qoran says)Can the Quran which not only contradicts history (2007 AD) but itself actually( the Qoran neither contradicts history nor contradicts itself )tell you what the prior prophets said when it all came through Mohammed? Show me historical evidence that Jesus didn't die?
I tell you that Jesus (peace be upon Him) didnt die because I believe what is said in the Holy Qoran : 4.157 . And because of their saying : We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary , Allah ' s messenger They slew him not nor crucified , but it appeared so unto them ; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof ; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain ,4.158 . But Allah took him up unto Himself . Allah was ever Mighty , wise

I know that the Quran says Jesus didn't die. You said the Quran doesn't contradict history, didn't you? So it should be very easy to show substantial proof outside of the bible and the Quran that Jesus didn't die! So show me!

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by yourfriend58 and elijah115
post is interspersed with quotes from elihah (black) and yourfriend58 (blue)

The bible is a "cannon" of books, written by different authors under the inspiration of God UNder the inspiration of God??? How can I be sure ? .

Because God always left witnesses to confirm anything that He did so that people would be able to authenticate a prophet as well as his speech and actions. One of the best examples is when God gave the commandments to Israel at Mt. Sinai. At Mt. Sinai, God revealed Himself in a cloud to validate who He was as well as validate Moses as a prophet unto Israel. God also validated the commandments that He gave Moses were from Him. This did not occur with Mohammad. Mohammad was the only one who got revelation, and no one could authenticate it but Him. How could anyone test what he claimed came from Allah through Gabriel? Answer: They couldn’t. Allah provided no external means of the average person confirming that Allah sent Mohammad and messages. When Mohammad said that something was lawful for Him by Allah’s permission, who could legitimately dispute it with any authority? Answer: No one. And those who did dispute were putting themselves in danger. The spirit of authority became Mohammad and the verification of Mohammad became Mohammad—not Allah. This is not the means by which God deals with us. Jesus promised a comforter (The Holy Spirit) which also plays a role in the validation of God's words (Bible) as well as Jesus Himself. The Holy Spirit testifies to our spirit that our actions and thoughts are in accordance with God's will. The Spirit also helps to influence our minds to understand the written text (Bible). There is more, but that is enough to hopefully get the point across.

The Quran all came through Prophet Mohammed. You say that the bible contradicts itself, yet you based "internal contradiction" on "external disagreement with the Quran", is that right? no. Internal contradictions are sufficient enough to believe that there are contradictions (regardless of what the Qoran says)

I think what is being said is that you attribute the difference in the two books to the Bible being in error. You are not equally attributing the possibility that the later revelation (Qu’ran) is the one in error.

I understand the zeal of people to disprove the Bible with contradictions. Some of the apparent contradictions are not really contradictions once we clear up the syntactical and grammatical errors. There appears to be some logical errors that once are put into proper context are not really errors. There are several problem errors that do require some detailed understanding to make sense of. Through all of the alleged contradictions, I don't think that many of them actually stand up after explaining.

Can the Quran which not only contradicts history (2007 AD) but itself actually( the Qoran neither contradicts history nor contradicts itself )

Actually this one is very easy to prove but I will one give you one example.

Bible: Christ was crucified
Qu'ran: He wasn't

tell you what the prior prophets said when it all came through Mohammed? Show me historical evidence that Jesus didn't die?
I tell you that Jesus (peace be upon Him) didnt die because I believe what is said in the Holy Qoran : 4.157 . And because of their saying : We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary , Allah ' s messenger They slew him not nor crucified , but it appeared so unto them ; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof ; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain ,4.158 . But Allah took him up unto Himself . Allah was ever Mighty , wise

You have just introduced circular reasoning, which is a fallacious attempt to evidence something from the text that is in question. Because the text says so, therefore, it is. There is ample external Qu'ranic material to show that your statement is false. Unless you think that those contemporary to Jesus' time made all of this stuff up, you haven't a leg to stand on. If you think that Allah making them think that He was killed actually proves your point, then you are faced with another dilemma. Then you have to explain how Allah can deceive all of the people at the crucifixion and let the true believers continue to believe a lie. By Allah not correcting the friends/allies of Jesus, he allowed deceit to spread to millions of people over the course of 600 years until he brought along Mohammad. Do you really think that this is consistent with what you find in the Bible about God's nature? It is recorded in the Bible that at least 500 witnesses were present during the crucifixion. Did all of these people conspire to kill Jesus? Did the friends/allies of Jesus deserve to spread lies and cause millions of people to die in Jesus’ name? Is that a just god to do that?

 

[Islam_mulia]

Because God always left witnesses to confirm anything that He did so that people would be able to authenticate a prophet as well as his speech and actions. One of the best examples is when God gave the commandments to Israel at Mt. Sinai. At Mt. Sinai, God revealed Himself in a cloud to validate who He was as well as validate Moses as a prophet unto Israel. God also validated the commandments that He gave Moses were from Him. This did not occur with Mohammad. Mohammad was the only one who got revelation, and no one could authenticate it but Him. How could anyone test what he claimed came from Allah through Gabriel? Answer: They couldn’t. Allah provided no external means of the average person confirming that Allah sent Mohammad and messages. When Mohammad said that something was lawful for Him by Allah’s permission, who could legitimately dispute it with any authority? Answer: No one. And those who did dispute were putting themselves in danger. The spirit of authority became Mohammad and the verification of Mohammad became Mohammad—not Allah. This is not the means by which God deals with us.

1. How do you define 'validation' of God's message? Are you saying that for every message, there should be a 'witness' that it came from God?

2. In the case of Moses whom the bible said God spoke to in the burning bush, there was no other witness at that occassion. How do you use your validation method that Moses reception of the revelation was from God?

3. Similarly, for Jesus and the preaching of the gospels. How do you validate that the gospel is from God?

4. The message that was preached by the prophets (Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, etc) can stand on its own, without discrepancies. That is the validation of the truthfulnessness of the message. Hence, in the Quran God said that if the book does not come from God, you will surely find in it much discrepancies.... and you can many discrepancies in the Bible.

Jesus promised a comforter (The Holy Spirit) which also plays a role in the validation of God's words (Bible) as well as Jesus Himself. The Holy Spirit testifies to our spirit that our actions and thoughts are in accordance with God's will. The Spirit also helps to influence our minds to understand the written text (Bible). There is more, but that is enough to hopefully get the point across.

... except that there were people (humans)in the early church, who thought the holy spirit is in them, who believed that they were the Comforter.

Notwithstanding that, the 'validation' here is puerly your imagination as you make yourself to believe so. There certainly is no empirical evidence that the comforter has come to guide you to read the bible properly. In many cases, I've seen so many who claimed to have the holy spirit in them, read the bible 'wrongly' and so come the various christian denominations. Strange, I would always thought the Comforter would guide all into ONE CHURCH.

I think what is being said is that you attribute the difference in the two books to the Bible being in error. You are not equally attributing the possibility that the later revelation (Qu’ran) is the one in error.

I understand the zeal of people to disprove the Bible with contradictions. Some of the apparent contradictions are not really contradictions once we clear up the syntactical and grammatical errors. There appears to be some logical errors that once are put into proper context are not really errors. There are several problem errors that do require some detailed understanding to make sense of. Through all of the alleged contradictions, I don't think that many of them actually stand up after explaining.

Really? Do you actually want to take the challenge to see if the bible is inerrant? You'll probably open th floodgates with so many posts you'll have nightmares. If the challenge is still on, pls open up a new thread and we'll meet you there.

Actually this one is very easy to prove but I will one give you one example.

Bible: Christ was crucified
Qu'ran: He wasn't

The problem is there is no historical evidence that Jesus was crucified. I've discussed this before, and if you like I can resurface the various arguments put forth by Chrsitians and refuted by non-Christains.

You have just introduced circular reasoning, which is a fallacious attempt to evidence something from the text that is in question. Because the text says so, therefore, it is. There is ample external Qu'ranic material to show that your statement is false. Unless you think that those contemporary to Jesus' time made all of this stuff up, you haven't a leg to stand on. If you think that Allah making them think that He was killed actually proves your point, then you are faced with another dilemma. Then you have to explain how Allah can deceive all of the people at the crucifixion and let the true believers continue to believe a lie. By Allah not correcting the friends/allies of Jesus, he allowed deceit to spread to millions of people over the course of 600 years until he brought along Mohammad. Do you really think that this is consistent with what you find in the Bible about God's nature? It is recorded in the Bible that at least 500 witnesses were present during the crucifixion. Did all of these people conspire to kill Jesus? Did the friends/allies of Jesus deserve to spread lies and cause millions of people to die in Jesus’ name? Is that a just god to do that?

This is a worst case of reasoning.

1. If there were 500 witnesses (and not just 5 or 50) the gospel writers would have no hesitation to include this important event. I mean you have one or two ladies at the tomb saying this could be important witness, you totally omit 500 witnesses that could galvanise your message of the rising Christ. What Paul said definitely have no justification here. I must say, Paul is the liar.

2. As I said above, there was no historical evidence for the crucifixion, and the post-Quranic documents have just proven that.

3. How do you define 'deceit' in the context of Jesus so-called crucifixion?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In many cases, I've seen so many who claimed to have the holy spirit in them, read the bible 'wrongly' and so come the various christian denominations. Strange, I would always thought the Comforter would guide all into ONE CHURCH.

And lead us out of the "False one".

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of Her, the People of Me, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,

 

[MessianicMuslim]

I think from my own personal conviction and observation, Jesus is quite correct when He said "by their fruit you shall know them".

He was referring to them who acted righteously with good deeds, with love for one another, by turning the other cheek when wronged, etc. These are qualities are of the Christian G-d.

The Islamic Allah is very different from this. By their 'fruit' we shall know them. That is, what they manifest in their acts to be of G-d, is whether their G-d is that way. If they are violent, then their G-d is violent. This is clearly not the G-d called Yahweh. I see the doctrine of hatred exported from places like Saudi. G-d is not hate, but LOVE.

By their fruits you will know them.

One last thing, I have learnt to understand Jesus as the Christ, whereas Muslims understand an historical Jesus. A Jesus defined by His human condition.

 

[baobobtree]

Edit: Actually this post was a bit unnecessary. Mods or Admins please delete it.

 

[peaceful soul]

I think from my own personal conviction and observation, Jesus is quite correct when He said "by their fruit you shall know them".

He was referring to them who acted righteously with good deeds, with love for one another, by turning the other cheek when wronged, etc. These are qualities are of the Christian G-d.

The Islamic Allah is very different from this. By their 'fruit' we shall know them. That is, what they manifest in their acts to be of G-d, is whether their G-d is that way. If they are violent, then their G-d is violent. This is clearly not the G-d called Yahweh. I see the doctrine of hatred exported from places like Saudi. G-d is not hate, but LOVE.

By their fruits you will know them.

One last thing, I have learnt to understand Jesus as the Christ, whereas Muslims understand an historical Jesus. A Jesus defined by His human condition.

MessianicMuslim, I think that you meant that Muslims understand an ahistorical Jesus. Although they know Jesus, it is from an ahistorical framework since it is not from the Bible or historical documents.

Good to see you around again. Shalom!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mohammed the last prophet

One last thing, I have learnt to understand Jesus as the Christ, whereas Muslims understand an historical Jesus. A Jesus defined by His human condition.

Shalom. Why do you suppose the Muslims view the Jewish book of Revelation as a "pagan greek" book? If they and the Jews do not view that book as Inspired Scriptures, then why should they view the rest of the NT as Inspired? Thoughts.

Reve 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fall toward the feet of Him as dead, and He places the right hand of Him upon me saying: "No be fearing! I Am the first and the Last. 18 and the living One! And I became dead, and behold, I am living into the Ages of the Ages, and I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death