McCain chose Palin as VP

[Fish and Bread]

I'm sure she will do the right thing by her children. She is much more loving and caring and sweet than most women politicians and there is just something wonderful about this woman... and I'm sure she will do fine by her little one. I have no worries about the well being of her children, she is quite capable of knowing the right things to do with her own family. I have full confidence in this woman...

Did you even know who she was before yesterday?

Its all moot. We are Catholics. No faithful Catholic can vote for a politician who thinks it should be legal to murder children in their mothers' wombs. There is no debate on that matter. Anyone who thinks that point is debatable is no Catholic.

So Pope Benedict is not Catholic? Because he disagrees with you. I guess you'll have to start your own Church and declare yourself Pope, since the real one isn't "orthodox" enough for you.

1) McCain made it plain and clear that he is pro-life

He voted to federally fund embryonic stem cell research.

2) The words "proportionate reason" sound to me like the basis for an excuse to commit a mortal sin and vote to keep the murder of babies legal.

People are quoting Pope Benedict from his 2004 instruction he issued as a Cardinal. Voting for a pro-choice candidate where porportional reasons exist is not a mortal sin. Pope Benedict said so. Maybe you should research this issue a little more before threatening people with hellfire for not sharing your politics.

Only people like that drunk Kennedy

Oh, that's nice, make ridiculous personal attacks against a guy with what is almost sure to be terminal brain cancer on a thread that doesn't even relate to him.

 

[WarriorAngel]

also becuase you as a parent develop tolerance to the stress and you just don't worry about small insignificant things. I find mothers of one or two kids can't handle the stress of parenting as well.

I have ppl say all the time - how do you handle it?
I would be insane...[they add]

But its like - to be honest - i would have loved more. And yea, i think you get 'settled' into a routine.
And later in life the blessings multiply as you always have someone to talk to...or help you.

When i sold insurance - i saw many broken elderly because they had 1 maybe 2 kids who left the area and lived far away....and they never saw their grand children.
Had they had 5 - 6 - 7 or more kids, someone would always be nearby.

Of the 8 my mum had - 2 of us moved away - and 6 stayed nearby.

The bigger the family - the easier it is.

 

[SolomonVII]

Oh, that's nice, make ridiculous personal attacks against a guy with what is almost sure to be terminal brain cancer on a thread that doesn't even relate to him.

He has been given 40 more years to get to that point than what he gave to Mary Jo.

It is a tale of drunkeness, cowardice and corruption that has forever besmirched the Kennedy name.

The Chappaquiddick incident refers to the circumstances surrounding the 1969 death of Mary Jo Kopechne, a former staff member in Senator Robert F. Kennedy's 1968 presidential campaign. Edward Kennedy was driving a car with Kopechne as his passenger when the Senator drove off Dike Bridge into the channel between Chappaquiddick Island and Martha's Vineyard. The Senator swam to safety, but Kopechne died in the car. Kennedy left the scene and did not call authorities until after Kopechne's body was discovered the following day. He pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and was sentenced to two months in jail, suspended.
In January 1970, an inquest into Kopechne's death took place in Edgartown. At the request of Kennedy's lawyers, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ordered the inquest be conducted in secret.[19][20] Judge James A. Boyle presided over the inquest. His conclusions were as follows:

• "Kopechne and Kennedy did not intend to return to Edgartown" at the time they left the party.
• "Kennedy did not intend to drive to the ferry slip".
• "[Kennedy]'s turn onto Dike Road was intentional".

Judge Boyle also said that "negligent driving appears to have contributed to the death of Mary Jo Kopechne".[20]
Under Massachusetts law Boyle could have ordered Kennedy's arrest, but he chose not to do so.[20] District Attorney Dinis chose not to pursue Kennedy for manslaughter.

 

[benedictaoo]

I have ppl say all the time - how do you handle it?
I would be insane...[they add]

But its like - to be honest - i would have loved more. And yea, i think you get 'settled' into a routine.
And later in life the blessings multiply as you always have someone to talk to...or help you.

When i sold insurance - i saw many broken elderly because they had 1 maybe 2 kids who left the area and lived far away....and they never saw their grand children.
Had they had 5 - 6 - 7 or more kids, someone would always be nearby.

Of the 8 my mum had - 2 of us moved away - and 6 stayed nearby.

The bigger the family - the easier it is.

It has it's ups and downs and t's hard for the first few years when they are young but as they get older it is a lot easier.

Having a special needs kid myself (who we are about to take on the road going to God knows where, what fun that will be) I can say it makes you a much stronger person and a person who can put things into perspective and one who can handle stress.

I wish this Sara women was running for President, I like her better then McCain. It's going to be interesting to see this play out. She has a child with down syndrome that the public can see is a beautiful human being that does not hold you back.

How is Obama going to defend choosing on the side of the women who was allowed to kill her down syndrome child?

Is McCain using her and using the situation to his advantage? Maybe, but if it stops all this abortion foolishness and anti special need kids and it gets ppl to think about this issue then who cares?

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

1) McCain made it plain and clear that he is pro-life and that his administration will be a pro-life administration. I have no reason to believe he lied about that at the Saddleback debate. Besides, there is NO doubt that Democrats are pro-abortion, which negates your alleged point.
2) The words "proportionate reason" sound to me like the basis for an excuse to commit a mortal sin and vote to keep the murder of babies legal.

No Catholic can vote for pro-abortion candidates. Only people like that drunk Kennedy - who needs to be excommunicated - would say otherwise.

Well with a position so eloquently stated as that, who could dismiss what you write?

The words 'proportionate reason' ought to ring a bell with anyone who has read any of the Church documents regarding voting. If there is no clearly pro-choice candidate, we are to choose from the lesser of the two evils (woo! hoo! what a great way to pick a leader- who is less bad) or choose someody else. A Catholic can indeed vote for a non-pro life candidate, if they are not specifically voting for them for that reason, and if there is proportionate reasons for doing so. This requires that a person try to have a well-formed conscience, but it does not mean anyone who vote Democrat is hell-bound.

I think we have a moral obligation to vote- but that doesn't mean we have to vote between the guy who wants to have unrestricted access to abortion and use of unborn babies for research, and the guy who only wants the most inconvenient of all babies to be allowed to be killed or used for research purposes.

 

[katholikos]

...So Pope Benedict is not Catholic? Because he disagrees with you. ...

Is that so? I challenge you to show me any statement by ANY pope saying that it is okay to vote for a pro-abortion candidate.

Abortion is murder. To be a party to it is to be a party to murder.

Or do you think that Archbishop Chaput was just blowing hot are when he said Joe Boden should not present himself for communion?

Well with a position so eloquently stated as that, who could dismiss what you write?

Abortion is murder. To vote for the pro-choice party is a vote for the murder of innocents. People who intellectualize that simple truth away are people who are being corrupted by the culture of death. Perhaps when such people meet the souls of the slain innocents in heaven they can explain their intellectual gymnastics to them.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

It has it's ups and downs and t's hard for the first few years when they are young but as they get older it is a lot easier.

Having a special needs kid myself (who we are about to take on the road going to God knows where, what fun that will be) I can say it makes you a much stronger person and a person who can put things into perspective and one who can handle stress.

I wish this Sara women was running for President, I like her better then McCain. It's going to be interesting to see this play out. She has a child with down syndrome that the public can see is a beautiful human being that does not hold you back.

How is Obama going to defend choosing on the side of the women who was allowed to kill her down syndrome child?

Is McCain using her and using the situation to his advantage? Maybe, but if it stops all this abortion foolishness and anti special need kids and it gets ppl to think about this issue then who cares?

I wish she was, too...she might end up being my write-in. I need to learn more about her, though.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Is that so? I challenge you to show me any statement by ANY pope saying that it is okay to vote for a pro-abortion candidate.

Abortion is murder. To be a party to it is to be a party to murder.

Or do you think that Archbishop Chaput was just blowing hot are when he said Joe Boden should not present himself for communion?

Not so much with the precision...

There is a diference between being a public figure who is vocal about the impotrtance of abortion being legal and available and unrestricted...and being in a position of trying to choose a leader for one's country when presented with to very imperfect representatives of the totality of Catholic thought and belief.

 

[Fish and Bread]

He has been given 40 more years to get to that point than what he gave to Mary Jo.

What Senator Kennedy did in 1969 was reckless (the driving), and he reacted out of fear (the swimming away). It's understandable, even while he obviously did the wrong thing. It was one night 40 years ago. Let's give it a rest. This thread isn't even about Senator Kennedy, and he's a man who's done a lot of good in his life for a lot of people.

Is that so? I challenge you to show me any statement by ANY pope saying that it is okay to vote for a pro-abortion candidate.

"When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons." -Cardinal Ratzinger (Now Pope Benedict XVI)

Source:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3534-2004Sep7.html

Abortion is murder. To vote for the pro-choice party is a vote for the murder of innocents. People who intellectualize that simple truth away are people who are being corrupted by the culture of death. Perhaps when such people meet the souls of the slain innocents in heaven they can explain their intellectual gymnastics to them.

Pope Benedict disagrees with you. I'll be happy to explain why I've voted to pro-choice candidates to anyone who asks. I'd prefer pro-life Democrats and did vote for one when I had the opportunity, but I'd rather vote for a pro-choice Democrat than a pro-life Republican because the Democrat usually cares about life from birth to death rather than just for nine months. I'd rather have the total package, but given the choice, I'll take birth to death versus 9 months in the womb.

 

[AMDG]

The words 'proportionate reason' ought to ring a bell with anyone who has read any of the Church documents regarding voting. If there is no clearly pro-choice candidate, we are to choose from the lesser of the two evils ...

You mean, of course, that in the case of "proportionate reason", our votes are to lessen the direct killing of unborn babies.

Gosh, it seems simple enough to understand--without life, no other "right" is even necessary. (If a human being is dead, he does not need health care, a college education, any of the privileges we have come to think of as "rights", the privilege of being able to serve our country, that home with a white picket fence", etc.) Yes, we are to vote our consciences, but our conciences are formed with the Church, and protecting life is still primary.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Protecting life is more complicated than just abortion--we voted Bush in on the abortion stance, and what has he done?? Is Roe V Wade overturned? Did he capitulate and allow for fetal stem cell research? And in the interim, while no strides have been made politically to end abortion other than partial birth abortion (which is still allowed in cases of threat to the mother, making it rather a non-law)- we've sent our young men and women off to the slaughter, harmed our relations with much of the rest of the world, and watched our country plunge into debt and less wealth. Those things seem like proportionate reason. If we all get blown to kingdom come, there is not "life", either.

(For those who think I am wrong about the Partial Birth ABortion ban wording:

This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself. This subsection takes effect 1 day after the date of enactment of this chapter.

Here's the whole thing:
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/abortion/2003s3.html

 

[katholikos]

Protecting life is more complicated than just abortion--we voted Bush in on the abortion stance, and what has he done??...

He put two conservative pro-life judges on the Supreme Court. That is a monumental event which will reverberate for decades to come. A democrat would do just the opposite.

Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Abortion is murder, and voting in such a way that keeps it legal is a sin. You need to quit doing mental backflips and come to grips with that simple, basic fact. If every Catholic voted for the pro-life candidate, there would be no more abortion because Catholics make up the majority of politicians in the United States. Its people like you that are the reason it is still legal.

...There is a diference between being a public figure who is vocal about the impotrtance of abortion being legal and available and unrestricted...and being in a position of trying to choose a leader for one's country....

You make things too complicated. Its real simple: Vote pro-life. As I said, If every Catholic voted for the pro-life candidate, there would be no more abortion because Catholics make up the majority of politicians in the United States. Its people that complicate things like you do that is keeping this holocaust legal.

 

[D'Ann]

Did you even know who she was before yesterday?

I don't think most people knew who she was until yesterday. But since then, I have done a lot of reading up on her and listening to all kinds of different essays on her. I think she is right for this job and it is refreshing to see a woman with great conviction and honesty and integrity and honor be selected to run for Vice President. She may not have 4 years in the Senate, but she does have experience being a Council person and a Mayor as well as Governor for 2 years, which is more experience than Obama. She is not part of the corruption of Washington... she is not involved in the Washington politics... she is Sarah... a wife and mother and a Governor of Alaska who fights against corruption and who is strong when it comes to ethics. This country needs her in office. I wish she was running for President, I would vote for her and that is saying something for me. By the way, being a Senator for 4 years like Obama doesn't even come close to comparing being a governor even for 2 years. Being a governor is similar to being President except in a smaller equation. We all wanted change, we now have a chance for change... a real change, a good change. We have the opportunity to get people in the White House who are pro life and who will help our Country overcome it's burdens.

He voted to federally fund embryonic stem cell research.

I have a problem with that, but I have a MUCH MORE BIGGER PROBLEM with Obama who is completely for killing unborn babies with abortion for any reason at all as well as allowing partial abortions for older babies and allowing them to just die... This is sooo intrinsically evil... and it blows my mind that some just don't recognize how evil this is and horribly evil this is. This is worse than the war in Iraq and/or Aghanistan imho.

People are quoting Pope Benedict from his 2004 instruction he issued as a Cardinal. Voting for a pro-choice candidate where porportional reasons exist is not a mortal sin. Pope Benedict said so. Maybe you should research this issue a little more before threatening people with hellfire for not sharing your politics.

Catholics are told to vote for the lesser of the evils. For Catholics who believe in procreation of life and we do not even believe in birth control for the most part, how can Catholics even consider voting against a ticket with a complete across the board pro-life vice president candidate as well as a President candidate is is more pro life than we could ever hope for now adays... I'll take McCain and Palin over Obama and Biden any day.

I think we have a moral obligation to vote- but that doesn't mean we have to vote between the guy who wants to have unrestricted access to abortion and use of unborn babies for research, and the guy who only wants the most inconvenient of all babies to be allowed to be killed or used for research purposes.

At this point, I'll vote for the guy who will save more lives. Mc Cain will save more babies than Obama will and that is the bottom line. With McCain in the White House, we are pretty much quaranteed to get more Supreme Judges who are pro-life and then watch what happens to Roe vs. Wade. I believe that with McCain and Palin in the White House, Roe vs. Wade will be overturned and abortion will become illegal and there will be programs to help mothers and families so that they have options to keep their babies with help and support or to give up their babies to a loving family. That is what we need and that is well worth voting for McCain and Palin. On top of everything else, I agree with McCain on a lot of other issues and I disagree with him on some issues as well. When I compare what McCain stands for and what Obama stands for, I have to vote for McCain and I do this with a clear conscious... I do this with hope and happiness... and joy. I'm relieved and grateful and happy that we now have Sarah Palin on the ticket as our next vice president.

I wish she was, too...she might end up being my write-in. I need to learn more about her, though.

She might be my write in too. But at the same time, I don't have a problem with McCain, otherwise, she definitely would be my write in. For the first time, there is actually a candidate that I actually can and do relate to on some many various different levels.

 

[Fish and Bread]

At this point, I'll vote for the guy who will save more lives. Mc Cain will save more babies than Obama will and that is the bottom line.

Some of us believe non-fetuses are people, too. What happens to you after you're born is important, not just what happens while you're in the womb. Obama and Biden are pro-life from birth until death. McCain and Palin are only pro-life for some of the nine months prior to when you're born.

 

[D'Ann]

Some of us believe non-fetuses are people, too.

I'm sure that some Democrats do believe this and that most democrats who are Christians have good and kind and loving hearts and are good people. I don't think they understand how precious ALL life is.

What happens to you after you're born is important,

Absolutely. 100% correct.

not just what happens while you're in the womb. Obama and Biden are pro-life from birth until death. McCain and Palin are only pro-life for some of the nine months prior to when you're born.

But see, you are missing a big part of the puzzle here... in order for there to be any life at all from beginning to end, one must be born first. So, let's save all of the lives of those babies so that they too can live a long life unto death. Let's give these babies a chance to live while having programs to help support those who need support. ALL life across the board is precious and important, but if we allow abortion to continue and kill babies who never even have a chance to live outside of womb, well, that just is plain evil. It's wrong. So, let's take care of the unborn babies who are innocent and are subjected to others to protect them and take care of them.

I believe that unborn babies and all people have a better chance in this life time with McCain and Palin then they do with Obama/Biden.

 

[Fish and Bread]

But see, you are missing a big part of the puzzle here... in order for there to be any life at all from beginning to end, one must be born first. So, let's save all of the lives of those babies so that they too can live a long life unto death. Let's give these babies a chance to live while having programs to help support those who need support. ALL life across the board is precious and important, but if we allow abortion to continue and kill babies who never even have a chance to live outside of womb, well, that just is plain evil. It's wrong. So, let's take care of the unborn babies who are innocent and are subjected to others to protect them and take care of them.

I'm a pro-life Democrat and want abortion to be illegal. However, it is also important that we protect people who are already born and show them respect and acknowledge their dignity as human beings. If we don't protect life outside of the womb -- which everyone agrees is life -- then how can the case be made for protecting life which not even everyone can agree is life? I think first the case needs to be made that life has value -- that everyone should have access to health care and food and shelter and not just to be left to die because they can't afford something basic, and that we protect people's rights so they have dignity, and then we can focus more fully on the unborn with it already established that all life is precious. The building block is to establish that all life has value and to have public policies that reflect it in terms of people we can all agree are people. Then the argument can be begin on more solid ground as to whether fetuses are people.

 

[katholikos]

...At this point, I'll vote for the guy who will save more lives. Mc Cain will save more babies than Obama will and that is the bottom line.....

Ahh, but you think too clearly. You are not "complicated" enough for the pointy heads who like to intellectualize everything until they think themselves right into sin... ...and then find a way to justifiy that as well.

You see, McCain was too simplistic when he bluntly said life begins at conception. Oh no no, you need to be "deeper" and more "complicated" like Obama, who said that the answer to when life begins is "above his pay grade" and can at the same time rationalize killing beings which he himself admits he doesn't know if they are human beings or not.

You see, that is what being intellectual is. You can see it right here in this forum: People who rationalize voting for those who condone the murder of innocent babes. Isn't it great to be so complicated?

Of course, I'm just a simple guy. I only want to protect the unborn. I guess I'm just a prte-Vatican II throwback - too old fashioned, you see.

I'm a pro-life Democrat...

I rest my case.

.

.

 

[Fish and Bread]

You are not "complicated" enough for the pointy heads who like to intellectualize everything until they think themselves right into sin...

There's nothing wrong with not being an intellectual. Not everyone has the talent or the inclination to go in that direction. There are plenty of simple folks who are amongst the best people the world has known.

Having said that, though, the phenomenon of anti-intellectualism is disturbing. Anti-intellectualism isn't the state of not being an intellectual, rather it's the state of rejecting the very idea of people thinking in logical, rational, scientific way as being somehow bad. "I don't need none of your learning" was a rallying cry for book burners, lynchings, and any number of bad things in history. Today, anti-intellectualism hurts America economically, puts our planet in peril, and excuses electing people who don't understand how to navigate complex issues in complex times and willing sell our freedoms down the river. We see another example of it in this thread -- excusing kill people by systematic neglect, because it is "too complicated" to matter. I find anti-intellectualism very sad, very troubling, and dangerous for our country and the world.

Note that I'm not saying all Republicans are anti-intellectuals. Many are not. But the quoted material sounds awfully anti-intellectual to me. And I think it's been a growing trend in the Republican party in the 21st century.

 

[katholikos]

Tell that to the murdered children when you face them in heaven. Tell them that you were being "smart" when you voted to empower their murderers. I should enjoy watching that very much.

 

[Fantine]

also becuase you as a parent develop tolerance to the stress and you just don't worry about small insignificant things. I find mothers of one or two kids can't handle the stress of parenting as well.

It gets easier the more children you have because they're doing half the work of raising the younger ones.

Many hands make light work. My best friends growing up were both oldest girls in families of eight children, and we never went anywhere without two or three younger ones. They resented it. They complained. They had much smaller families when they got married, although they were devoted to the children they did have.

I hear you loud and clear. You support Governor Palin, and you support her even more because she can be a loving, devoted mother while traveling the country on tour buses 18 hours a day for nine weeks straight while dragging along a sick infant whose genetic heritage includes a predisposition to lung, respiratory and heart problems.

How dare anyone else look beneath the surface? How dare anyone whisper one word of doubt about her qualifications?

There were many, many, many pro-life Republicans with much more experience and credentials--Governor Huckabee, for example, who supported a Human Life Amendment, the only candidate to suggest the only way to end abortion and stem-cell research.

Well, excuse me if some of us think that a good Vice-President with good family values should be judged not by the number of birthstones in her mother's ring but by the strong foundation she supports for every child in this country.

Not only was Governor Huckabee in favor of a Human Life Amendment, he was the only pro-life Republican in the field, because he was the only one who had improved the lives of the already born in Arkansas by championing education and health care and because he was socially conservative and politically moderate.