Matthew 6:5-6

[John S]

5. Again, when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites, who love to pray standing in the synagogues(churches) and at the street corner in order that they may be seen by men. Amen, I say to you, they have received their rewards.
6. But when you pray, go into your room, and close your door, pray to your Father in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.

Unless you believe that Jesus was lying, you should pray in private. Your rewards will be greater.

 

[served]

5. Again, when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites, who love to pray standing in the synagogues(churches) and at the street corner in order that they may be seen by men. Amen, I say to you, they have received their rewards.
6. But when you pray, go into your room, and close your door, pray to your Father in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.

Unless you believe that Jesus was lying, you should pray in private. Your rewards will be greater.

Absolutely right!

 

[christopher13]

i agree

 

[new_wine]

And also give alms in secret as well.

The Salvation Army should learn that one.

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

I'd ask what exactly you mean by 'private'. I agree that we should all have our own personal time of prayer and fellowship with our Father and our Lord. However, when we look at the Lord's prayer as our example I think there are a couple of clues from it that we can understand that coporate prayer is also beneficia. We also have several indications in the Old Testament that whole cities sought God in prayer.

The first indication from the Lord's prayer would be the pronouns that Jesus chose to use as the example. He uses plural pronouns throughout. 'Our Father', 'give us', 'forgive us', etc. So, I just wanted to clarify that personal private time in prayer with our Father is very important and, yes, our reward will be great, but I don't think the command of the Lord here is limiting command that all prayer need be private.

Prayer is all about the heart of the one who is praying. What Jesus condemns is the one who would pray and rather than having his heart set on speaking with God, he is focusing on the 'how do I look to these others here?', the 'man this is going to really make me look like some kind of pious person.' attitude of the heart.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[John S]

Ted - As Jesus said in Matthew 6:6, go into your room and pray. You can't get much more private than that.
If people want to change the meaning of those words to suit themselves, that is entirely up to them. I'll choose to follow His words, without trying to make them suit my needs. As Christians, isn't that what we are supposed to do?
Oh Well. That's my opinion.

 

[RevRo]

Hi all,

I'd ask what exactly you mean by 'private'. I agree that we should all have our own personal time of prayer and fellowship with our Father and our Lord. However, when we look at the Lord's prayer as our example I think there are a couple of clues from it that we can understand that coporate prayer is also beneficia. We also have several indications in the Old Testament that whole cities sought God in prayer.

The first indication from the Lord's prayer would be the pronouns that Jesus chose to use as the example. He uses plural pronouns throughout. 'Our Father', 'give us', 'forgive us', etc. So, I just wanted to clarify that personal private time in prayer with our Father is very important and, yes, our reward will be great, but I don't think the command of the Lord here is limiting command that all prayer need be private.

Prayer is all about the heart of the one who is praying. What Jesus condemns is the one who would pray and rather than having his heart set on speaking with God, he is focusing on the 'how do I look to these others here?', the 'man this is going to really make me look like some kind of pious person.' attitude of the heart.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Right on, brother! Right on!

 

[Jerushabelle]

The first indication from the Lord's prayer would be...

I agree with you Miamited, however, IMO, the first indication from the Lord's prayer is that it was first uttered before thousands. Jesus was speaking of the attitude of one's heart when prayer is offered to God; that we should be on our guard against the hypocrisy found in our hearts. Prayer is just about all I have left and I will utter it wherever and whenever I am moved to do so by the situation(s) I find myself in life which is often when I am anything but alone or able to go to a private place. God is my only source of real wisdom, help and comfort in this world. When are we going to stop throwing out these sorts of rediculous barriers to God? The curtain in the Temple was torn by God Himself. Leave it be!

 

[miamited]

Hi John,

You're absolutely right. You should pray in private. I do every day.

Maybe what is really needed here is a bit of cultural education. Good exegesis always looks at all the variables that apply to the words spoken. Who the words were spoken to. What the context of the conversation was. What the words spoken 2000 years ago may mean that we don't even have any idea of today.

In Jesus day, I believe you will find that it was common for men, especially those who were a part of the governmental body of the Pharisees, Sadducees, etc. to stand on the street and just start praying. Not to others or for others, but merely to pray for themselves while standing on the corner or on the side of a roadway or path. They would just stop in their tracks from time to time and just pray. I believe, yes, this is Ted speaking, that very often they would see something that they didn't find godly that someone else was doing and they would pray prayers of condemnation. There is a good example of this in Luke. Jesus tells a parable of two men who went to the temple to pray and he told them: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Notice that Jesus did not condemn this man for praying at the temple. Why not, if this issue of public prayer is as you seem to think? Why would Jesus use a parable that would show two men not doing what God wants of us and yet praise the one.

Then we find that even Jesus prayed publicly. "And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all."

This was a blessing prayer in front of at least 5,000 people. How private is that?

Jesus prayed in public before calling Lazarus:
Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me."

So, sure, go ahead and do exactly what Jesus did. Your reward in heaven will be great. Jesus prayed both in public, for others, and in private for himself and others.
God is glorified whenever and wherever we lift Him up with a true heart of love and prayer.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Big Drew]

5. Again, when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites, who love to pray standing in the synagogues(churches) and at the street corner in order that they may be seen by men. Amen, I say to you, they have received their rewards.
6. But when you pray, go into your room, and close your door, pray to your Father in secret, and your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you.

Unless you believe that Jesus was lying, you should pray in private. Your rewards will be greater.

Does this mean we shouldn't lead prayer at church...or say grace over our meals...or pray with a friend in need?

 

[John S]

It says that Jesus said that your rewards will be greater if you pray in private.
It's something for His followers to think about, which very few have probably ever done before.

 

[Big Drew]

It says that Jesus said that your rewards will be greater if you pray in private.
It's something for His followers to think about, which very few have probably ever done before.

Perhaps...but that doesn't really answer my question.

Is it wrong for us to pray with one another? Or, maybe what Jesus was saying was we shouldn't pretend to be righteous in front of the crowd when we live like the devil behind closed doors?

 

[served]

Perhaps...but that doesn't really answer my question.

Is it wrong for us to pray with one another? Or, maybe what Jesus was saying was we shouldn't pretend to be righteous in front of the crowd when we live like the devil behind closed doors?

Its not wrong to pray with people. But it is just more meaningful to do it one on one. Kind of like if you said "I love you" to your wife in front of the whole family it is less personal than by yourself's. Neither is wrong to do.

 

[John S]

Big Drew - If you pray in public, don't do so just so you could be seen by others doing so. Sitting around the dinner table, praying with your family is not public. Praying on a street corner is.

 

[new_wine]

To all that offer up public prayer, can you not do it in silence?

I do it all the time. Because there are some folk that just don't want to hear it.
This is following The Second Great Command. I know I would not like someone praying to their other god(s) out loud in front of me. So I don't subject others to mine.

It is called courtesy. Yes, I know, showing people respect when they haven't earned it yet. God washed the disciples feet when they didn't deserve it. I figure we can pray silently when we are out of the house. No big deal.

I feel the same way about religious holidays as well and how they get put on display. But that is another thread.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

Attempting to legislate prayer procedures misses the entire point of Christ's teachings on prayer; public and private.

God's words to Samuel at the time of picking Saul's replacement comes to mind (1 Samuel 16:7). We finite mortals cannot look on another mortal's heart therefore we are limited to the 'outward appearance' and judge accordingly. This practice is most definitely against scripture (Matthew 7:1-6; Romans 14:4; James 4:12) and is the foundational source of a great deal of division and chaos in the Body of Christ today.

God's perspective is always on the heart, not the outward appearance. This was the perspective Christ was trying to convey when teaching on such complex issues as worship and prayer. It is up to the individual to search their own hearts based on Christ's words to see if they are in compliance or not and to make whatever adjustments are necessary if they are found to be lacking in humility. When a brother attempts to correct a perceived flaw in these issues it is usually based on our very limited perspective and usually doesn't end well.

To attempt to make 'rules' about prayer based on one or two verses of scripture is poor exegesis (at best) and full-bore legalism (at worst). Just so there's no confusion, I define 'legalism' as a form of control of other people's thoughts and actions based on man's understanding of scriptures rather than God's leading through scriptures.

Praying is a very personal portion of the entire relationship process with God and as such can be manifested in many ways without being in violation of Christ's teachings; the same with worshipping God. We must all be on guard not to enter into the practice of false-piety and pride in all aspects of our Christian walk. Just as it is prideful to pray publicly in order to get attention it is just as prideful to assume our practices and understanding of these issues are the standard by which all others are to be judged.

Just my .50. Do with it what you will.

ASW

 

[RevRo]

Attempting to legislate prayer procedures misses the entire point of Christ's teachings on prayer; public and private.

God's words to Samuel at the time of picking Saul's replacement comes to mind (1 Samuel 16:7). We finite mortals cannot look on another mortal's heart therefore we are limited to the 'outward appearance' and judge accordingly. This practice is most definitely against scripture (Matthew 7:1-6; Romans 14:4; James 4:12) and is the foundational source of a great deal of division and chaos in the Body of Christ today.

God's perspective is always on the heart, not the outward appearance. This was the perspective Christ was trying to convey when teaching on such complex issues as worship and prayer. It is up to the individual to search their own hearts based on Christ's words to see if they are in compliance or not and to make whatever adjustments are necessary if they are found to be lacking in humility. When a brother attempts to correct a perceived flaw in these issues it is usually based on our very limited perspective and usually doesn't end well.

To attempt to make 'rules' about prayer based on one or two verses of scripture is poor exegesis (at best) and full-bore legalism (at worst). Just so there's no confusion, I define 'legalism' as a form of control of other people's thoughts and actions based on man's understanding of scriptures rather than God's leading through scriptures.

Praying is a very personal portion of the entire relationship process with God and as such can be manifested in many ways without being in violation of Christ's teachings; the same with worshipping God. We must all be on guard not to enter into the practice of false-piety and pride in all aspects of our Christian walk. Just as it is prideful to pray publicly in order to get attention it is just as prideful to assume our practices and understanding of these issues are the standard by which all others are to be judged.

Just my .50. Do with it what you will.

ASW

This is 100% perfection and should put an end to this thread once and for all!

 

[John S]

Those 2 verses of scripture were from the mouth of Jesus Christ. For people who claim to be His followers, that is more important than anything else. Disregarding them, or showing little regard for them, is NOT what Christians should do.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

Those 2 verses of scripture were from the mouth of Jesus Christ. For people who claim to be His followers, that is more important than anything else. Disregarding them, or showing little regard for them, is NOT what Christians should do.

Agree, the words in those verses are from the mouth of Christ. Were those the only words Christ spoke on the subject your interpretation would be correct. They weren't. To say "this is the only way to pray" based on a single passage is not taking the whole counsel of God into consideration. If you are convinced that this is the only way you are going to pray then go for it. To say all believers should only pray this way is wrong and legalistic. That is my entire point. Pray however you want. Just don't sit in judgment if others choose not to pray the way you choose to.

 

[new_wine]

That's a nice sentiment. But it still doesn't address the Second Great Command.

I know its a sticking point with me. Mainly because it is a rule for being a citizen of the Kingdom. And these are not the great suggestions.

Now if some buddists starting chanting out in front of you or some muslims started a call to pray in your neighborhood would you be a bit put off by it? I would. Its not my God's way. So rather than to subject others to my ranting and wailing about God I keep it to myself. That way no one feels uncomfortable as I would if they did it.

Attempting to legislate prayer procedures misses the entire point of Christ's teachings on prayer; public and private.

God's words to Samuel at the time of picking Saul's replacement comes to mind (1 Samuel 16:7). We finite mortals cannot look on another mortal's heart therefore we are limited to the 'outward appearance' and judge accordingly. This practice is most definitely against scripture (Matthew 7:1-6; Romans 14:4; James 4:12) and is the foundational source of a great deal of division and chaos in the Body of Christ today.

God's perspective is always on the heart, not the outward appearance. This was the perspective Christ was trying to convey when teaching on such complex issues as worship and prayer. It is up to the individual to search their own hearts based on Christ's words to see if they are in compliance or not and to make whatever adjustments are necessary if they are found to be lacking in humility. When a brother attempts to correct a perceived flaw in these issues it is usually based on our very limited perspective and usually doesn't end well.

To attempt to make 'rules' about prayer based on one or two verses of scripture is poor exegesis (at best) and full-bore legalism (at worst). Just so there's no confusion, I define 'legalism' as a form of control of other people's thoughts and actions based on man's understanding of scriptures rather than God's leading through scriptures.

Praying is a very personal portion of the entire relationship process with God and as such can be manifested in many ways without being in violation of Christ's teachings; the same with worshipping God. We must all be on guard not to enter into the practice of false-piety and pride in all aspects of our Christian walk. Just as it is prideful to pray publicly in order to get attention it is just as prideful to assume our practices and understanding of these issues are the standard by which all others are to be judged.

Just my .50. Do with it what you will.

ASW