mastabating

[spiritman1]

First,The point I made earlier is from sheer reason. Probably 80-90% of people have ongoing masturbation or have done it at least once. You DON'T get 80-90% of people wrestling with greed or sloth or any of the other sins. So one takes pause to ask---"Why is this so constant, so widely done in our population?". Well, maybe because it's different....it's NOT a sin. Like what would be the percentage of babies that suck their thumb? It's a human thing, like masturbation is a human thing.......self comfort.

Second,It helps to define terms. GOD gave us sexual thoughts, they are normal to our human constitution. They are different from lust, especially the way that Jesus is using it via "looking upon a woman" verses. Ask yourself "Why doesn't He want us to do that?". He usually takes the non-phariseical route to say don't look upon to lust for her because you want to stop BEFORE you take her. It's a dangerous practice because you are feeding the heart that will push the will to act out.

Third,I believe this requires the Holy Spirit guiding us to discern when we cross over the lust-line. Somehow my inner spiritual man tugs at my sleeve when I meditate too long in sexual thought over a woman where alarms go off and I am growing to WANT that woman, to GET that woman. At this point I would agree that masturbation can be used in a sinful way. But if your sexual thoughts are not directed sinfully, and you want to think about being in bed with 10 vestial virgins, swinging from chandeliers that is your private business.

Fourth,last point. Lordy-bee, it sure does help to relieve sexual tension. A lifesaver for hormonal teenage boys. And if it takes the edge off in order to live a righteous life then so be it. BTW, I have used the male view when writing but realize that all applies to women also.

Yes this reasoning works well with any sin, take abortion, if enough people are killing their babies everyday, once we pass the abominable rate of 80 to 90 percent of all Americans, TA DAAAA! ITS NO LONGER A SIN! what stupid reasoning! I think your statistics are only based on what culture is producing and feeding the minds of youth and people in general, garbage in garbage out. but you just keep doing whats right in your own mind, regardless of what the bible teaches.........percentage rates dictate whether somthing is a sin or not....goodgrief!

 

[brinny]

The Bible is clear. The heart is desperately wicked. It is repeated umpteen times throughout the Bible that man is prone to giving ear to the deceptiveness of lust. We are reminded that our bodies are temples of a holy God, and that our bodies are to be vessels of honor.

"Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart." ~2 Timothy 2:22

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
~Jeremiah 17:9

The verses are right there in His Word. Check out some of them.

For those who have ears to hear:

What Lust Does

Lust. It IS what it is.

 

[brinny]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']touching yourself is not a sin I would be worried about. [/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/font]

it's a sin that can just be dismissed, then? Well surely if you're not worried about this category of sin, God surely isn't. Does he just turn His head the other way? He excuses it?

You say "touching yourself is not a sin I would be worried about."

The bottom line is:

sin is sin.

It is written throughout God's Word how God views sin. It is also written that man's "mind" is sinful and deceitful. THIS is what God repeats throughout the Bible. He EMPHASIZES the heart, the mind of man being the wicked vessel, and that it CANNOT be trusted. Was God joking? Is He now?

It's not one "touching" theirself that is the sin here...we all "itch" or "wash" or "touch ourselves".....it's the "motive". Well ev'rybody KNOWS one masturbates to get an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. In order to GET an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], thoughts must come into play. These "thoughts" is what is emphasized "repeatedly" throughoput God's Word.

Man IS desperately wicked. If it were not so, Jesus' costly sacrifice would not have been necessary. Since the beginning there has been one who has said, in a garden, loooong, loooong ago "did God REALLY say...?" It continues to this day.

God knows we are prone to play "Russian Roulette" with sin, play "footsie" with it, "flirt" wit it. This very thing is covered in James.

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." ~James 1:8

There is nothing new under the sun. Man is man. He is who God says he is. God spells it out quite clearly. Whoop, there it be.

He who has ears listen up.

 

[Peripatetic]

You DON'T get 80-90% of people wrestling with greed

Actually, the number is probably closer to 100%. With greed and pride, it's not a matter of if, but how much. They are part of the fallen human condition, and everyone sins in these two areas. Pride is the more dangerous of the two, but greed is still very damaging, especially to our level of contentment.

 

[Peripatetic]

You say "touching yourself is not a sin I would be worried about."

The bottom line is:

sin is sin.

On one hand, you are right: we should never say that we have a sin with which we should not concern ourselves. If something is sin, we should work towards removing it. Identifying whether something is sinful is not always easy though.

Also, there are different categories of sin. Some are habitual struggles, but not as destructive. Overeating, spending too much money, and swearing can be sinful, and can get you into trouble, but they aren't as bad as habitual rape, murder, or blasphemy.

If the Holy Spirit does bring conviction that masturbation is a sin of lust for an individual, he/she needs to identify whether it is a) a selfish act that could easily be dropped, or b) a weakness of the flesh that has a strong hold.

I'll give you examples of both in my life. I used to have a hobby of watching disturbing horror movies. They had no outward negative affect on my life, but the Holy Spirit convicted me and I decided it was time to change that aspect of my life. Instead of getting all legalistic and worked up, I just worked my way out of it and now I don't crave them anymore. No big deal. I even watch one every once in a while, but it's just another movie, not a "desire" like it used to be. I also used to listen to the Howard Stern radio show every day at work. About 8 years ago, I felt conviction and it was easy to quit. Now, would I say those two activities are always sinful? No I wouldn't... it depends on the person. For me, they were bad habits that were easy to break.

On the other hand, I have a weakness for consumerism and I struggle with contentment. I know that I sin in this area. I am very blessed, yet I still grow tired of things and I'm often tempted to spend money to upgrade what is perfectly fine. This is not something I can just decide to stop. I acknowledge that it is part of my character, and I need to be mindful of it and fight it (sometimes unsuccessfully). People who are content by nature might reason with me and tell me how I should think... I might even completely agree with them, but yet those feelings come back again and again. If someone were to condemn me, judge me, and ask why I don't just "stop"... well, you can see how that would be very discouraging.

In the same way, sexuality has a hold over many people. If someone is struggling with lust, sex addiction, inappropriate content addiction, or any other sexual sin, it may be a lifelong battle. Much harder than my horror movie or Howard Stern examples. If masturbation is sinful for them, they'll have to seek guidance from the Holy Spirit for a way to manage it. For a sex addict or pedophile, maybe masturbation is an important part of their sanctification. How can we possibly know? I would hate to guilt that person into stopping that only to later find out that they went back into much darker areas. Just something to think about...

 

[iambren]

Sin IS sin. But masturbation is not a sin so quit talking about it unless you can prove your point. (eg my reasoning points) You don't have to go out creating sin where sin does not exist.

People simply assume things without thinking it through. One case would be about Halloween---would you let your kids go "trick or treat"? I think it's silly to make a big deal about a pagan holiday and rob my kids of a lot of fun. Yet some want to "create" evil when nothing is there--boooooo.

The same goes with this topic. I'm curious about those who condemn it, use the concept of "man looking upon a woman has created adultery in his own heart" ie lust. HOW can you be looking upon a woman if you're in the privacy of your own bedroom!!! Do you have invisible walls???

Again sexual thoughts DO NOT EQUAL sin. If you believe that then show me how you have a sexual thought without scenes in your mind?? And if you DON'T believe that, you're going to turn into a pretty repressed person, leading to ALL kinds of sexual distortions. No, I'll take a masturbater anyday over that!

 

[Blueforest]

I hear masturbation leads to blindness, hairy palms, baldness and low IQ scores.

 

[TheDag]

The same goes with this topic. I'm curious about those who condemn it, use the concept of "man looking upon a woman has created adultery in his own heart" ie lust. HOW can you be looking upon a woman if you're in the privacy of your own bedroom!!! Do you have invisible walls???

for a start it is possible to touch without an image in your mind. If you can't then don't assume it is not possible simply because you can't manage it. Secondly if you are married and thinking about your partner then it is not a sin. You don't physically have to murder someone to have murdered them according to the bible and likewise you don't have to physically be looking at a woman to have images in your mind. Of course if you are looking at a picture then it is the same as looking at someone physically.

I don't believe masturbation is a sin as such however lust is and if you can't touch without lusting then you need to abstain.

In the end if someone thinks it is a sin then for them it is a sin and they should avoid it. Self control is not difficult but people just don't seem to want to practice it.

 

[TheDag]

No, it is not. If it were it would be explicitly outlawed by the Bible. Instead the Bible bans only lustful thoughts and actions. Even for women, masturbation can occur without such thoughts, as a purely physical release. Men need this regularly for physical reasons; women can also become physically "pent up," especially if they are leaving behind premarital sex or if they are engaged and anticipating marital sex in the near future.

what are the physical reasons men need to touch? The only one I have ever heard of is the three day thing which is a load of rubbish. The body is perfectly capable of disposing of dead sperm when going to the toilet.

 

[Blueforest]

for a start it is possible to touch without an image in your mind. If you can't then don't assume it is not possible simply because you can't manage it. Secondly if you are married and thinking about your partner then it is not a sin. You don't physically have to murder someone to have murdered them according to the bible and likewise you don't have to physically be looking at a woman to have images in your mind. Of course if you are looking at a picture then it is the same as looking at someone physically.

I don't believe masturbation is a sin as such however lust is and if you can't touch without lusting then you need to abstain.

In the end if someone thinks it is a sin then for them it is a sin and they should avoid it. Self control is not difficult but people just don't seem to want to practice it.

Never mind.

 

[TheDag]

If you want a formula for destruction of your eternal soul then follow this poster and his advice as "THE WAY HE SEE'S IT" or you can go to God's word and get faithful and trustworthy guidence.........what ever a man think's so shall he become, if you allow your mind to freely think whatever it wants not holding it to subjection of Jesus. you are not a real disciple, and this path will eventually lead you to destruction, watch out for those who practice lawlessness and every lewd behavior is accepted as normal. The bible mention's these folks quite frequently, they will tell you what your itching ears want to hear, but check what they say against sound biblical teaching

well why don't you provide some of these scriptures? You are certain the bible says it is wrong so you must have checked it against the scriptures so tell us what they are so we can look them up. Educate rather than sitting on a perch speaking down to people and making judgements on them.

Not a problem! you want worldly advice not biblical advice....the bible is more than clear, ALL SEX outside of marriage is a sin. period!

however you are using your definition of sex. How do we know that is the correct definition?

 

[TheDag]

I am reminded of a minister who said speaking in tongues can not be of God because he had not experienced it himself. Likewise I would say to any here who say it is not possible to touch without lust you are doing the same thing. I don't go around saying high jump is an ungodly sport because I'm no good at it. Perhaps people could think about this.

 

[brinny]

Is there a correlation? Are they opposed to each other?

If not, then masturbation is a form of worship. It is a pure offering to God as we lift our thoughts, all that we hold in our consciousness and sub-conscious, to Him. For all that we do, brings glory to His name. Therefore, masturbation is blessing Him as He smiles upon us, and His Holy Spirit rejoices, as all of heaven joins in, as the cheers of exultation rise up in triumph and His only begotten Son, joins in, because we are loving God with all of our hearts, our minds, and our strength, as we say "I do this for You, Father, and I praise Your name, and worship You and thank You, and love You with all that I am, in the name of Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of You, the living God, the God of the living, amen."

If so, then it is what it is. There's no gradation of sin, nor defense of it.

We either bring a smile to our God or we do not. THere is no in-between. For if we truly love God, our entire journey on this earth, is to bring a smile to His face, as we give up those things that we are so prone to do, because we are but flesh. We "examine" our minds, our hearts before Him, asking Him to renew our hearts and minds, daily. We are told to put on the full armor of God. Why is that? Is it because the enemy is aiming for our "Achilles Heel" (our weaknesses)?

Our bodies are a living, breathing sacrifice to Him, a temple in which He dwells. We are admonished to bring our bodies, our minds, our hearts, into submission to Him. We are admonished to "guard our hearts". There is a reason God admonishes us repeatedly to examine our hearts, our minds, and pour it all out to Him.

A quote on "prayer" or conversation with God:

“Tell God all that is in your heart, as one unloads one's heart, it's pleasures, and it's pains, to a dear friend.
Tell him your troubles, that he may comfort you; tell him your joys, that he may sober them; tell him your longings, that he may purify them; tell him your dislikes, that he may help you conquer them; talk to him of your temptations, that he may shield you from them; show him the wounds of your heart, that he may heal them; lay bare your indifference to good, your depraved tastes for evil, your instability. Tell him how self-love makes you unjust to others, how vanity tempts you to be insincere, how pride disguises you to yourself and others. If you thus pour out your weaknesses, needs, troubles, there will be no lack of what to say. You will never exhaust the subject. It is continually being renewed. People who have no secrets from each other never want for subject of conversation. They do not weigh their words, for there is nothing to be held back, neither do they seek for something to say. They talk out of the abundance of their heart, without consideration they say just what they think. Blessed are they who attain to such familiar, unreserved intimacy with God.” ~Francois Fenelon

intimacy = into me see

 

[TheDag]

Is there a correlation? Are they opposed to each other?

If not, then masturbation is a form of worship. It is a pure offering to God as we lift our thoughts, all that we hold in our consciousness and sub-conscious, to Him. For all that we do, brings glory to His name. Therefore, masturbation is blessing Him as He smiles upon us, and His Holy Spirit rejoices, as all of heaven joins in, as the cheers of exultation rise up in triumph and His only begotten Son, joins in, because we are loving God with all of our hearts, our minds, and our strength, as we say "I do this for You, Father, and I praise Your name, and worship You and thank You, and love You with all that I am, in the name of Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of You, the living God, the God of the living, amen."

In an ideal world where we are perfect then your logic would be sound. However we are not perfect and sometimes we stuff up so we aren't always loving God with all our heart strength and mind

 

[LWB]

what are the physical reasons men need to touch? The only one I have ever heard of is the three day thing which is a load of rubbish. The body is perfectly capable of disposing of dead sperm when going to the toilet.

To avoid nocturnal emissions and keep the prostate well flushed which may help to prevent prostate cancer.

 

[TheDag]

To avoid nocturnal emissions and keep the prostate well flushed which may help to prevent prostate cancer.

I reckon the jury is out on that one and it is just an excuse. A specialist in the field told me that there was no evidence for it either. Generally when the body is not capable of doing this itself it is lifestyle factors that cause a problem and once addressed the problem corrects itself just like alcohol related dementia improves if one stops drinking alcohol.

 

[brinny]

In an ideal world where we are perfect then your logic would be sound. However we are not perfect and sometimes we stuff up so we aren't always loving God with all our heart strength and mind

thus, why we are mandated to come to Him, seeking forgiveness.

 

[ss552jmst]

I honestly believe touching yourself is a sin because you are actually gratifying the flesh in which the Lord has told us not too do !
It's a subject with many different view points . It's a sin in my mind after doing it for well over 15 years .

 

[Blueforest]

I honestly believe touching yourself is a sin because you are actually gratifying the flesh in which the Lord has told us not too do !
It's a subject with many different view points . It's a sin in my mind after doing it for well over 15 years .

Is eating a sin? Because eating is also "gratifying the flesh". The same with sleeping or drinking fluids.

Oh religion...

 

[LWB]

I reckon the jury is out on that one and it is just an excuse. A specialist in the field told me that there was no evidence for it either. Generally when the body is not capable of doing this itself it is lifestyle factors that cause a problem and once addressed the problem corrects itself just like alcohol related dementia improves if one stops drinking alcohol.

I trust my own experience to your reckoning thanks. Masturbation avoids the highly unpleasant experience of nocturnal emission. Even if there was some kind of sanitary napkin for single men to wear at night, the indignity, inconvenience, and expense would be many times worse than the manual approach to prostate/seminal vesicle maintenance.

Please provide the name of the specialist, along with his qualifications. Not that I'm interested, but it is just sloppy to quote mystery specialists without a proper reference.