Mass shooting in California

MikeK

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Here are some gun control laws on the books ALL READY:

Refuting the Lies of Gun-Control Liberals - Patriot UpdatePatriot Update

(Since law enforcement doesn't seem to know all about them and the people on this board don't seem to know, why would our Bishops know all about them when they deal with RELIGIOUS things and not SECULAR law? Seems you are asking an awful lot of our Bishops.)

Shame on you, AMDG. Shame on you to your very core for suggesting that for over 4 decades our Bishops have been consistently speaking on a matter they haven't bothered to inform themselves about. First you make an untrue statement about the gunshow loophole and then you accuse our Bishops of being so foolish as to speak strongly without doing their homework. Where is your sense of humility? Where is your submission? Where, AMDG, is your decency? You bring this political propaganda into an issue that is not political - this is a pro-life issue and Christ's Church is leading the way as usual. Stop this obfuscating and get out of their way. You are capable of so much more.
 
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AMDG

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Arizona toddler picks up handgun, pulls trigger, kills baby brother - NY Daily News
It's s tragic thing and according to the article I posted earlier in the thread, Arizona has some of tbe county's least restrictive gun laws.

Now that's really far afield of the California "hammering, knifing, shooting, drive-by". Has NOTHING to do with prevention as well. Or all the laws that are already on the books.

Strange too. I guess the parents nowadays don't know the word "no" as in "no touch". (I knew it from about eighteen months and so did other children in family.)

Guess parents today aren't very responsible either. Leave a tool out like that with the safety not on (not to mention the fact that the tool had to be set up--bullet in chamber and cocked for this to happen by "accident".) Guess they leave knives, scissors, saws, drills, poisons, medications, pots turned so the handles stick out for little ones to pull over, electrical wires open sockets, etc. around too. Sounds like these parents need to "puppy proof" their homes--NOT a reason for more regulations on folks who ARE responsible.
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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Now that's really far afield of the California "hammering, knifing, shooting, drive-by". Has NOTHING to do with prevention as well. Or all the laws that are already on the books.

Strange too. I guess the parents nowadays don't know the word "no" as in "no touch". (I knew it from about eighteen months and so did other children in family.)

Guess parents today aren't very responsible either. Leave a tool out like that with the safety not on (not to mention the fact that the tool had to be set up--bullet in chamber and cocked for this to happen by "accident".) Guess they leave knives, scissors, saws, drills, poisons, medications, pots turned so the handles stick out for little ones to pull over, electrical wires open sockets, etc. around too. Sounds like these parents need to "puppy proof" their homes--NOT a reason for more regulations on folks who ARE responsible.

Didn't read it, right? It wasn't the parents gun.
 
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Tallguy88

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AMDG said:
Here are some gun control laws on the books ALL READY:

Refuting the Lies of Gun-Control Liberals - Patriot UpdatePatriot Update

(Since law enforcement doesn't seem to know all about them and the people on this board don't seem to know, why would our Bishops know all about them when they deal with RELIGIOUS things and not SECULAR law? Seems you are asking an awful lot of our Bishops.)

How is this any different from what Catholics who support abortion and gay marriage say? It's basically "the Bishops don't know what they're talking about. They need to stick to churching, not politicking."

As Catholics, we must be obedient to our bishops, not just on infallible things like the Immaculate Conception, but also when they use their general teaching authority as well.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Seems ppl should not leave weapons laying around. Period.

Likely the mom didnt notice the gun. But if he had a house of weapons - i'd be leery of leaving my kids anywhere in the house for a second.

Unfortunately - more deaths occur for several reasons. Drowning in a shallow tub, electrical burning, falling etc. :(
Must keep your eye on kids.
 
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AMDG

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Didn't read it, right? It wasn't the parents gun.

Doesn't matter.

We had a large family. Many guns. Many children. Been around MANY responsible parents who were able to convey the "no touch" rule--especially in the face of delicate or even possibly dangerous items.

The children knew from a VERY young age that "no touch" meant "no touch". Later, when they began to string together larger concepts and began moral teaching it was "if it's not yours, don't touch".

The story STILL has nothing to do with the Santa Barbara killings, nor even the gun restriction laws ALREADY on the books.

Making it even more difficult for responsible folks to get and maintain firearms DOES NOTHING to solve the problem of police negligence and the mental health of these youths who commit crimes because they have been "trained" to do so in violent video games while they are bereft of morals and the left KNOWS it.
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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Well I'm impressed....three year olds who never make a mistake and touch something they were told not to. Maybe for the rest of us, fewer guns or safer guns may be the answer. Of course, when you try to sell a gun that can be fired only by owner, you get threats from NRA members.
 
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AMDG

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How is this any different from what Catholics who support abortion and gay marriage say? It's basically "the Bishops don't know what they're talking about. They need to stick to churching, not politicking."

As Catholics, we must be obedient to our bishops, not just on infallible things like the Immaculate Conception, but also when they use their general teaching authority as well.

Tallguy, killing another human being--one's baby (abortion) IS a religious issue. Knowing all the various gun restriction laws and their punishments (which varies from a mere ten years in prison to capitol punishment) is secular--something a lawyer who specializes in this particular thing would know better.

The mere fact that the Bishops are STILL clamoring for laws that exist already seems to show that the Bishops cannot possibly be informed about EVERYTHING all at once. The Bishops are simply human and it's just not humanly possible to be all knowing.

I wouldn't expect secular folks to be able to quote canon law or religious things (and I haven't been disappointed--look they even say that killing a baby is fine and dandy.) I think turn about is only fair. I will not put too great a burden on our Bishops by insisting that they know all the secular laws, regulations, and restrictions as well.
 
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MikeK

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Making it even more difficult for responsible folks to get and maintain firearms....

Even more? The last gun I bought I found on the internet on armslist. I visited the seller at his home and gave him cash for the gun. We did not exchange names. He did not ask for ID. I could have been anyone. It was perfectly legal. I found a gun I wanted online and 20 minutes later it was riding home with me. You can't buy guns through the internet without a background check, but you can legally use the web to meet anonymous sellers of used guns and do cash and carry transactions. In and out in minutes or less, no oversight, no nothing. Absolutely, perfectly legal.
 
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MikeK

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The mere fact that the Bishops are STILL clamoring for laws that exist already....

You are falsely accusing some very good, holy servants of God. I hope that you know how serious what you're doing is, and I hope that somehow you are not culpable for your actions.
 
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RDKirk

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I wouldn't expect secular folks to be able to quote canon law or religious things (and I haven't been disappointed--look they even say that killing a baby is fine and dandy.) I think turn about is only fair. I will not put too great a burden on our Bishops by insisting that they know all the secular laws, regulations, and restrictions as well.

There is a fundamental problem in what you've said there. You have cut a dividing line through Christianity, slicing it between religion and life.

Are you really saying that nothing the bishops know about Christ can be applied to the life a Christian lives outside mass? They don't have to know secular laws to be able to discern and explain the Christian life.

The Christian life is above secular laws. Secular laws change from state to state, from province to province, from country to country, but the Christian life is consistent all over the world. The requirements for living a Christian life in North Korean Christian are precisely the same as for a Christian in Texas--the secular laws do not change that.
 
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AMDG

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There is a fundamental problem in what you've said there. You have cut a dividing line through Christianity, slicing it between religion and life.

Are you really saying that nothing the bishops know about Christ can be applied to the life a Christian lives outside mass? They don't have to know secular laws to be able to discern and explain the Christian life.

The Christian life is above secular laws. Secular laws change from state to state, from province to province, from country to country, but the Christian life is consistent all over the world. The requirements for living a Christian life in North Korean Christian are precisely the same as for a Christian in Texas--the secular laws do not change that.

What I'm saying is that I don't expect the Bishops to known PRECISELY ALL of the individual complicated laws, restrictions, and regulations (that you yourself have said change from state to state, from province to province, from country to country) on a totally secular subject. I WOULD expect that they might want and seek out some counseling or advice from experts themselves. I WOULD only expect them to have intimate and COMPLETE knowledge of "general requirements of Christian living."


BTW, I think it is YOU who have the dividing line. You see, I think that life IS religion and morality even as we are IN this secular world. I have merely noted that the Bishops don't seem to realize that the restrictive secular gun laws that they want ALREADY exist to the books. I further note that it doesn't stop this madness. Since that is so, perhaps there's something else that's causing it.

Now how about getting back to the subject of the topic--the Santa Barbara murders--which are three by hammer and knife and three by legal and registered guns and a bunch of folks injured by a legal and registered car? :holy: And don't forget that the police had an opportunity to stop the killings, but didn't and the many youtubes the mentally ill youth posted and the manifesto he wrote about killing for "retribution". Oh and remember that this was in California which has extremely strict anti-gun laws already.
 
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Root of Jesse

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A: The Catholic Church trumps any lawyer.
B: mass shootings DID happen when you were young and murders by gun happened more often per capita than they do today, AMDG. These are facts that the pro-gun lobby frequently brings up to show that things aren't getting worse even as high capacity firearms become much more common.

Not all murders can be prevented by increased restrictions on firearm ownership. Some can. No honest pro-life person can disregard those lives that we could save in favor of talking about the ones that stronger laws wouldn't save. If we're serious about being pro-life it will take a multi-pronged approach, just as our Church is promoting. Come, live in the light. Join our Bishops in calling for life-saving legislation that will still protect the rights of gun owners.

The statement that there is no gunshow loophole is completely false. There is no Federal requirement for background checks on privately transferred firearms. I have bought and sold plenty of guns this way. In a disturbing trend, used high capacity weapons are often more expensive on the used market than they are new, as people can avoid the background check. Our Bishops want this loophole closed, so should we. Spreading falsehoods about it about it not existing only harms our credibility.
Then the problem becomes the age-old problem. As Paul said, "I do what I don't want to do, and don't do what I want to do." Paraphrasing, of course. The problem is not the guns themselves. The problem is the people. So we do our best to vet those who want to own guns. (I think there should be periodic checks on gun owners.)
The problem with enacting more laws is that, 1) we can't enforce the ones we have, and b) laws don't cover all bases. Have you been on the highway lately? People drive 2-3 ton vehicles as if they're weapons, but there's laws on the books which say we shouldn't. And people break the laws all the time, and many seldom get caught. The same is true for gun ownership issues. There's laws about how to store guns, yet children can get hold of them. Laws don't stop people who want to break them. Speed limit? Drinking age? Laws against discrimination? Sure, they're there. Those who want to get around them can, and do, and will.
The only way to fix all this is to turn to God. Full face, 100%. Short of that, no amount of laws is going to prevent someone who wants to get a gun and use it, from getting it. No amount. It's like preventing weeds from growing. It's like preventing Eve from eating of the tree.
I'm not even a gun owner. But I support anyone who has proper instruction and proper knowledge, and proper mental health who wants to own a gun, whether for self-protection or for hunting, to own a gun. It's funny how often a gun-free zone (advertised) becomes the victim of gun violence...

I also believe you can support the bishops' efforts while at the same time asking for the state to learn to enforce what they have before creating new laws. This is true in the matter of gun ownership, and of immigration, and many other items. I believe it's possible for a bishop to speak out of school, sorta like an actor who plays a role, then suddenly believes he knows enough to speak about an issue. I do support the bishops. Gun violence against innocent victims is horrible. But restricting gun ownership for those law-abiding people is not the answer. The same way a vehicle is tracked by a unique number, so that if a car is cited for a parking ticket it gets mailed to the last known owner, guns can be followed. When a gun is used in a crime and recovered, the suspicion would go to the person who last registered that gun. And if it somehow disappeared, oh, well. With ownership comes responsibility. Also, anyone found with a gun that has no serial # makes the crime a capital one. And I believe those laws already exist...
 
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Root of Jesse

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There is a fundamental problem in what you've said there. You have cut a dividing line through Christianity, slicing it between religion and life.

Are you really saying that nothing the bishops know about Christ can be applied to the life a Christian lives outside mass? They don't have to know secular laws to be able to discern and explain the Christian life.

The Christian life is above secular laws. Secular laws change from state to state, from province to province, from country to country, but the Christian life is consistent all over the world. The requirements for living a Christian life in North Korean Christian are precisely the same as for a Christian in Texas--the secular laws do not change that.
What she said is the other way around. Everything the bishops know about Christ can be applied to life. And supercedes secular law, in reality. We already have canon law on murder. Thou shall not. But that has nothing to do with owning a gun.
 
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Root of Jesse

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What I'm saying is that I don't expect the Bishops to known PRECISELY ALL of the individual complicated laws, restrictions, and regulations (that you yourself have said change from state to state, from province to province, from country to country) on a totally secular subject. I WOULD expect that they might want and seek out some counseling or advice from experts themselves. I WOULD only expect them to have intimate and COMPLETE knowledge of "general requirements of Christian living."


BTW, I think it is YOU who have the dividing line. You see, I think that life IS religion and morality even as we are IN this secular world. I have merely noted that the Bishops don't seem to realize that the restrictive secular gun laws that they want ALREADY exist to the books. I further note that it doesn't stop this madness. Since that is so, perhaps there's something else that's causing it.

Now how about getting back to the subject of the topic--the Santa Barbara murders--which are three by hammer and knife and three by legal and registered guns and a bunch of folks injured by a legal and registered car? :holy: And don't forget that the police had an opportunity to stop the killings, but didn't and the many youtubes the mentally ill youth posted and the manifesto he wrote about killing for "retribution". Oh and remember that this was in California which has extremely strict anti-gun laws already.
Amen! The most important thing we should be, in our life, is Christian. And more people that thought this, the better.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Even more? The last gun I bought I found on the internet on armslist. I visited the seller at his home and gave him cash for the gun. We did not exchange names. He did not ask for ID. I could have been anyone. It was perfectly legal. I found a gun I wanted online and 20 minutes later it was riding home with me. You can't buy guns through the internet without a background check, but you can legally use the web to meet anonymous sellers of used guns and do cash and carry transactions. In and out in minutes or less, no oversight, no nothing. Absolutely, perfectly legal.
I can buy lots of things on the internet, or through the internet, and not pay sales tax. That doesn't mean it's legal.

A lot of law depends on self-policing. The issue is not, really, the law-abiding citizen. I suspect, though I don't know, and I could ask, but couldn't verify, that you registered the weapon you bought? But here's the thing...say that you used that weapon in a crime, and the police found it, and did a trace, and it was traced back to the guy you bought it from...How responsible is he for the crime? I think he should be liable in some way, depending on the severity of the crime...
 
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Brother Bread

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The problem is directly related to the destruction of the family and extended family. Its a calculated destruction by the evil one satin. Remember him? He is not a fairies' tale. The nanny state, Tv, movie stars, Oprah ,Dr Pill. cant raise children. these past 50 years is proof. Only One man and one woman married along with the help of Grand Parents, aunts and uncles. cousins ect. Gods way.
 
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