- Jan 28, 2002
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1, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" Gen 1:1 ... Perhaps our Jewish friends here can explain better than I but the word create bara in Hebrew does not mean to create something from nothing. It means ‘to make fat’. It implies ‘to gather in’ as a man builds a ship, he gathers in the supplies he needs. Gen 1 is an opening announcement that God made the earth fat or enlarged it and here’s how he did it ... I love Richard R. Hopkins, he really goes though all the different verses and explains the original intent.
Hi withwonderingawe, thank you for your replies to me. I'll start with this one first by saying that I can understand why you love Richard Hopkins' writing. Apart from his unwavering support of the LDS faith, he seems a captivating author (I read a little bit of his writing online), and is certainly a man who (no doubt due to the fact that he is a lawyer by profession) is able to create what appears to be a good/believable argument in support of his positions.
The thing is, to arrive at the position that what Mormonism teaches is true based upon history and upon the Holy Scriptures of the Christians and the Jews, he is forced to be exactly what LoAmmi graciously called all of what you posited of his above, "creative". That's the problem with using an endgame like, "Mormonism is true", as the *starting* point, because everything, no matter how absurd or clearly and provably untrue it is, has to be made to agree with it. And when history and/or the Scriptures cannot be "bent" to fit the "truth" of the endgame, the only out, in this particular case, is to then say that the translations of the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, and even of recorded history in some cases, have all been (intentionally OR unintentionally) corrupted. The basis of this is fraught with all of the problems that are commonly found when one uses the ends to justify the means (which are being used to arrive at those ends)
You are, of course, free to believe whatever you wish (you have free will ). And yes, there are a number of things that Jews, the RCC, the EOC, and Protestants do disagree upon, but when ALL of us have, for 1000's of years, believed the same thing in absolute harmony with one another, I would think that alone should carry considerable weight, even for you, a Mormon.*
*(That's basically all I meant to say, but I expanded/extended those thoughts a bit below, so if you'd like to read on, please do so )
I am blessed to live only a few miles away from Hebrew Union College. I've had friends who attended there and friends who have taught there. One of them, a conservative Rabbi, did his dissertation on the Gospel of John. I know, WEIRD, especially when you understand that this man is NOT a Christian or a Messianic Jew, he's a Jew who believes (among other things) that Messiah is yet to come. But I know of no one who knows more about the Gospel of John than he does. And when the book opens and says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", he will tell you w/o hesitation that what the Gospel is teaching is that, "Jesus Christ, the Word as He is called in v1, is God, who (v14) came to dwell among us in the flesh". "That is what the Gospel of John teaches", he will tell you, "without a doubt". Does he believe that Jesus is the Messiah? No! (but he will say that is St. John's undoubted meaning).
I also know of a Professor there who was both a Jew and an Atheist. He taught Comparative Semitics, but when he exegeted/interpreted the OT, he came to the same conclusions about it that his "believing" Jewish colleagues did (because the Scriptures teach what the Scriptures teach).
I say all this for this reason: To arrive at what Mormonism teaches, you must disagree with, not only the scholars who are 'believers' in Christendom and Judaism, you must also disagree with non-believing scholars and skeptics who have no vested interest in Christianity or Judaism OR Mormonism being true or untrue.
I assume you understand this too, but in case you don't, as a Christian, I don't believe that "bara" means creatio ex nihilo in Genesis 1:1 because a Jewish scholar named "Charlie" coined the phrase in, let's say, 1320 BC, and that no matter what the facts say, we believe it because "Charlie" said it. Rather, I believe it because history and the word of God bear that fact out, and because, after the filter of history, that's what the scholars, doctors, and theologians, Jewish, Catholic and Protestant still say it means.
But then along comes a group like the LDS, whose "truths" don't agree with what history and the word of God teach, so the facts are bent (or literally denied as "corrupt") whenever they disagree with the presupposition.
In closing this ridiculously long-winded "essay" (very sorry about that .. hopefully you stopped reading it halfway through ) I will say this, "you could be right", and the rest of us could end up being the ones who are believing a lie. But it seems to me that you need to consider whether or not you want to trust your eternal destiny to the endgame that "Mormonism is true, no matter what", and to the teachings of Mormon apologists (such as Richard R. Hopkins, Esquire) who press this apologetic, w/o carefully and dispassionately checking out the "facts" behind what they say for yourself.
Yours and His,
David
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