Lying on the forum

[Larniavc]

I didn’t use the word “wrong” because I was being more precise specifically about an “incorrect statement”. An incorrect statement is opposed to a correct statement.
An incorrect statement is a statement that is untrue. Whereas a correct statement would be a true statement. An incorrect statement is a falsehood.

I don‘t think a falsehood is different than a lie.

That's the same as right vs wrong. But let's not continue to discuss this.

 

[One God and Father of All]

That's the same as right vs wrong. But let's not continue to discuss this.

Are you hanging up?

 

[One God and Father of All]

A lie is a deliberate, conscious act of deceit. I may have made statements that are incorrect, but have done so with the understanding that they were correct.

Do you see the contradiction there?

You may have made statements that are incorrect, but thought they were correct?

 

[Ophiolite]

I didn’t use the word “wrong” because I was being more precise specifically about an “incorrect statement”. An incorrect statement is opposed to a correct statement.
An incorrect statement is a statement that is untrue. Whereas a correct statement would be a true statement. An incorrect statement is a falsehood.

I don‘t think a falsehood is different than a lie.

In that case I disagree. A lie is the deliberate making of an incorrect statement. If it is not deliberate, it is not a lie.

to say or write something that is not true in order to deceive someone
something that you say or write which you know is not true
Cambridge Learner's Dictionary

to say or write something that you know is not true
Oxford Learner's Dictionaries

an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker or writer to be untrue with intent to deceive
Merriam-Webster

I checked six online dictionaries and only one supported your definition of lie. The second definition in Merriam-Webster:

an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker or writer
Merriam-Webster

 

[Ophiolite]

Do you see the contradiction there?

You may have made statements that are incorrect, but thought they were correct?

As per my previous post, there is no contradiction. I have not knowingly made an incorrect statement.

 

[One God and Father of All]

In that case I disagree. A lie is the deliberate making of an incorrect statement. If it is not deliberate, it is not a lie.

to say or write something that is not true in order to deceive someone
something that you say or write which you know is not true
Cambridge Learner's Dictionary

to say or write something that you know is not true
Oxford Learner's Dictionaries

an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker or writer to be untrue with intent to deceive
Merriam-Webster

I checked six online dictionaries and only one supported your definition of lie. The second definition in Merriam-Webster:

an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker or writer
Merriam-Webster

Does not deliberately making an incorrect statement make the statement true?

IOW, whether you deliberately made an incorrect statement or not the statement is still untrue. The statement is not fact. If it is not fact it is untrue.

 

[One God and Father of All]

If I said I made incorrect statements but have not lied, well, that’s a lie.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Psychologists tell us that the practice of lying is universal (or nearly so) amongst humans. They also tell us this practice begins at a very young age. Parents with toddlers, or with long memories of having had toddlers, may well be able to relate to that. However, the object of this thread is not to debate the truth of these assertions. For the purposes of this discussion I would like you to take these as true. I wish to discuss whether the practice of lying differs between participation in forums such as this and how it is practiced in "real life".

In the real world I periodically lie. I do not know to what extent my lying compares with human norms. Do I lie more frequently, or tell much bigger whoppers than the average human? I don't know. I like to think that my lying is less intensive than average, but I would like to think that wouldn't I? (I reviewed my interactions yesterday and the closest I can come to a lie was in omitting to truthfully tell a high pressure salesman that I was not making a decision today because I did not entirely trust what he was telling me.)

And finally I get to the point. I have, as far as I am able to recall, despite telling lies in the real world from time to time I have never told a lie on this forum, or on any other forum several of which I was active on for over a decade and a half. I find this odd and am uncertain as to what compels me to be scrupulously truthful online, but not elsewhere. I have some thoughts, but I would welcome suggestions as to what you think might be the cause. Also, if you feel comfortable doing so, comment on whether you have had similar experiences. And if any of you can identify an instance in any of my posts where I demonstrably lied that would be helpful, as it would remove the anomalous contrast.

There is no reason to lie on this or any forum because there is no accountability in other words, one can not get caught in a lie because it is pretty much all subjective. So I'm afraid it is not a noble act. On the other hand, there are reasons why a person lies outside of a forum and this can have consequences to people you know and love. Always analyze the motive.

To hide a wrong doing
To gain power on a false premise
To spare someone pain from the truth

Be blessed.

 

[Ophiolite]

If I said I made incorrect statements but have not lied, well, that’s a lie.

If you knew they were incorrect you were lying. If you believed them to be true you were simply speaking in error. This interpretation is supported by those dictionaries I have referenced, with a single exception. There are dangers in adopting your preferred definition, in that you run the risk of calling people liars who have not been attempting to decieve. This would likely offend or hurt them.

 

[durangodawood]

If I said I made incorrect statements but have not lied, well, that’s a lie.

You dont understand what lying is.

Lying requires an intent to deceive, which says something about your character. Just being wrong is insufficient for lying. You have to be aware that what youre saying is wrong for it to be lying.

 

[Ophiolite]

So I'm afraid it is not a noble act.

That suggests you think I may consider not lying on this forum to be a noble act. I do not. I just find it curious that there is that dichotomy in my behaviour.

There is no reason to lie on this or any forum because there is no accountability in other words, one can not get caught in a lie because it is pretty much all subjective.

I disagree. There are many things which can be presented objectively and with evidence. If someone states that X people are killed by dogs every year, but the actual figure can be demonstrated to be a tiny percentage of X, then this may be a mistake based on ignorance of the true value. But if the poster continues to insist it is X after being shown objective evidence they are wrong, then they are lying.

 

[durangodawood]

If I said I made incorrect statements but have not lied, well, that’s a lie.

Just yesterday in another thread I said I could win a fist fight with a polar bear.

Now, strictly speaking (to the best of my knowledge) thats false. But I said it in the understanding that everyone would grasp the absurdity of it up front, and therefore it would be funny. I had no intention of getting people to actually believe I could punch out a polar bear.

So... not a lie. And not a lie to say its not a lie.

 

[durangodawood]

.....despite telling lies in the real world from time to time I have never told a lie on this forum, or on any other forum several of which I was active on for over a decade and a half. I find this odd and am uncertain as to what compels me to be scrupulously truthful online, but not elsewhere......

Because you find theres nothing of value to be gained by lying here that could overcome your inclination not to lie. You're anonymous and you can sign out at any moment.

Contrast this with your pushy salesman situation where an awkwardly truthful encounter could provoke face-to-face bad feelings. Many of us humans really dont like those in an almost visceral sense. Its like we're hard wired to feel displeasure at such an encounter. And your little lie helps you avoid that.

 

[Ophiolite]

Because you find theres nothing of value to be gained by lying here that could overcome your inclination not to lie. You're anonymous and you can sign out at any moment.

Contrast this with your pushy salesman situation where an awkwardly truthful encounter could provoke face-to-face bad feelings. Many of us humans really dont like those in an almost visceral sense. Its like we're hard wired to feel displeasure at such an encounter. And your little lie helps you avoid that.

That makes sense, so it may be part of the explanation. However, you have triggered aanother plausible explanation. I think many of the lies people commonly tell are uttered on the spur of the moment, whereas posts are generally considered before commiting them. That consideration provides the opportunity to edit out any potential lies. So, perhaps it's not the forum that encourages me to be truthful, but the written form, versus the verbal that creates the opportunity.

 

[dzheremi]

I think the anonymity involved in many online interactions -- certainly including forums like this one -- emboldens liars in their lying and truthful people in their telling the truth. Not that anyone is entirely one or the other, of course. As I believe Dostoevsky pointed out in The Brothers Karamazov, the line between good and evil runs through every human heart.

I dunno. I guess I've never really thought about it, but to put in Christian terms that the OP may or many not be able to relate to, if I had to guess I would say that I know I have enough "real world" sins to deal with without adding "lying on Christian Forums" to the pile. It just seems so unnecessary. Lying for what? It's not like if you get people to believe lies when they have no reason to not believe them (say, about your own background, which logically only you would really know the truth of), you somehow gain something out of that. Sure, you got them to believe a lie, but it's not exactly an act of cunning if it occurs in a context where people are likely to believe you anyway.

This sort of thing is part of the reason why I've gone into a sometimes uncomfortable detail about my own background, even though I personally do not like doing so. There is the so-called "Principle of Embarrassment", whereby people engaged in historical criticism suggest that the more embarrassing (a.k.a., humanizing) details in a historical figure's record are more likely to be true than the hagiographical details. The thinking goes that the people attempting to mythologize or sacralize a figure would be unlikely to include unsavory details about them unless they were relatively certain that said details reflect the truth in some way. How would the early Muslim community, just for example, benefit by passing down information about Muhammad marrying so many women? Of course, we know that in that specific context, it is seen as fine that he did that, but we also know from early Christian writers (both those who came into contact with the early Muslims and those who did not) that this was a point on which Islam was criticized for its somewhat regressive moral values, relative to both the sayings of Christ as preserved in our religion (recall His treatment of the woman at the well who had both many and no husbands), and to what was established as normative behavior centuries before Islam was ever around. St. Basil (4th century), for instance, calls polygamy "fornication".

So I figure, by the same token, whether or not anyone thinks I'm lying about anything, if I include things that would make more sense to not include, then at least people know by inference that I'm less likely to be lying.

Plus, who pretends to be Coptic Orthodox, of all things? Eating beans and pita bread for most of the year isn't that glamorous, folks.

 

[durangodawood]

That makes sense, so it may be part of the explanation. However, you have triggered aanother plausible explanation. I think many of the lies people commonly tell are uttered on the spur of the moment, whereas posts are generally considered before commiting them. That consideration provides the opportunity to edit out any potential lies. So, perhaps it's not the forum that encourages me to be truthful, but the written form, versus the verbal that creates the opportunity.

Yeah the pace of writing is so different from the pace of speaking. Plus written things endure in a much more obvious way compared to spoken things.

It would be an interesting "real life" world if you could play back for yourself video of everything you ever said to remind yourself how you lied over and over again. But thats basically what we have here in terms of writing.

 

[BCP1928]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that, however while I enjoy much of my time on forums it would have minimal impact on my quality of life if I could no longer participate here, whereas back in the real world being caught in a lie could have very serious consequences. That should make it more likely that I would lie here, yet the reverse is true. But thank you for the suggestion.

It would depend on what kind of a "lie" you are talking about. I enjoy this forum, in part, because I can express my true opinions about a variety subjects which I would keep to myself or dissemble about in "polite society."

 

[Psalm 27]

"I hate and abhor lying..." psalm 119

 

[Elliewaves]

I mostly just read here and rarely post anything about my life, just opinions which is what i truthfully think. There are one or two posters that I think have created some sort of fantasy life for themselves, out of boredom or they might have some sort of disorder. Their posts are just too detailed and odd and if they were actually engaged in the life they project I don't think they would have time to write in detail about it multipletimes a day , every day. But, as long as they aren't trying to harm or prey on others then I guess it doesn't really matter. It's amusing, a little sad, and nothing more.

 

[Ophiolite]

"I hate and abhor lying..." psalm 119

Thank you for your post. Do you have any thoughts that relate to the points raised in the OP?