Lordship wrong about love....

[JLR1300]

Lordship Salvationists believe that in order to be justified a sinner must resolve to put Jesus first in their lives and to love Him supremely. Now that sounds really good. Who would want to argue with that? I, for one, certainly believe that we should love Jesus Christ above all others and above all else. Why wouldn’t we want to love the one who was willing to die for our sins even if in actual practice we often fail to love Him as much as we should?

Well of course, we as Christians do love Jesus and we constantly strive to love Him above all else. However, real the question is… does the Bible teach that loving the Lord is one of the things that the sinner must do to obtain justification and forgiveness?

To answer this we should remember the instance where Jesus was asked about what the greatest commandment in the law was. In Matthew 22 we read… “Then one of them, a Lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him and saying, “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

Now notice that the question is not… what is the most important fact in the gospel? The question is… what is the greatest commandment in the Law. And Jesus answers that the greatest commandment in all of the Law of Moses is that we must love the Lord.

Now the Lordship Salvationists take the greatest commandment in the Law of Moses and make it a requirement for justification. They say that in order to become a Christian a sinner must obey the greatest commandment in the Law and begin to Love the Lord Jesus and put Him above all else. When God sees that the sinner has now chosen to keep this commandment, which is the greatest commandment in the Law, He will forgive his sins and give him salvation.

Now what does the Bible say about the law when it comes to salvation? Romans 3:28 says, “Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” The Bible plainly teaches that, when it comes to getting saved, when it comes to justification, we are justified by believing in Jesus Christ alone for salvation… not by fulfilling the commandments of the Law. Paul also said, “Therefore, by the deeds of the law, no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

So when the Lordship Salvationist insists that before the sinner can be saved he must decide to put Jesus first and love Him supremely, he is insisting that the sinner begin to keep the greatest commandment in the law before justification can occur. The Apostle Paul, however, always insists that the law has nothing to do with justification. Paul plainly says that by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified.

Most Lordship Salvationists are just confused and they constantly contradict themselves. When they preach the gospel, they start out by saying that we are sinners and we cannot save ourselves by doing what the law commands. They say that we must trust in Christ alone for salvation. So far so good. However, they then turn around and contradict themselves by saying that before the sinner can be saved he must put Christ first and love Him supremely, and that if he fails to do that he cannot be justified. Without realizing it, the Lordship Salvationist is requiring the sinner to start keeping the greatest commandment in the law before he can be saved. This is totally unbiblical. The correct order is this: Justification produces gratitude, gratitude produces love. He who is forgiven much loves much.

 

[preacher4truth]

Lordship Salvationists believe that in order to be justified a sinner must resolve to put Jesus first in their lives and to love Him supremely. Now that sounds really good. Who would want to argue with that? I, for one, certainly believe that we should love Jesus Christ above all others and above all else. Why wouldn’t we want to love the one who was willing to die for our sins even if in actual practice we often fail to love Him as much as we should?

Well of course, we as Christians do love Jesus and we constantly strive to love Him above all else. However, real the question is… does the Bible teach that loving the Lord is one of the things that the sinner must do to obtain justification and forgiveness?

To answer this we should remember the instance where Jesus was asked about what the greatest commandment in the law was. In Matthew 22 we read… “Then one of them, a Lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him and saying, “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

Now notice that the question is not… what is the most important fact in the gospel? The question is… what is the greatest commandment in the Law. And Jesus answers that the greatest commandment in all of the Law of Moses is that we must love the Lord.

Now the Lordship Salvationists take the greatest commandment in the Law of Moses and make it a requirement for justification. They say that in order to become a Christian a sinner must obey the greatest commandment in the Law and begin to Love the Lord Jesus and put Him above all else. When God sees that the sinner has now chosen to keep this commandment, which is the greatest commandment in the Law, He will forgive his sins and give him salvation.

Now what does the Bible say about the law when it comes to salvation? Romans 3:28 says, “Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” The Bible plainly teaches that, when it comes to getting saved, when it comes to justification, we are justified by believing in Jesus Christ alone for salvation… not by fulfilling the commandments of the Law. Paul also said, “Therefore, by the deeds of the law, no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

So when the Lordship Salvationist insists that before the sinner can be saved he must decide to put Jesus first and love Him supremely, he is insisting that the sinner begin to keep the greatest commandment in the law before justification can occur. The Apostle Paul, however, always insists that the law has nothing to do with justification. Paul plainly says that by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified.

Most Lordship Salvationists are just confused and they constantly contradict themselves. When they preach the gospel, they start out by saying that we are sinners and we cannot save ourselves by doing what the law commands. They say that we must trust in Christ alone for salvation. So far so good. However, they then turn around and contradict themselves by saying that before the sinner can be saved he must put Christ first and love Him supremely, and that if he fails to do that he cannot be justified. Without realizing it, the Lordship Salvationist is requiring the sinner to start keeping the greatest commandment in the law before he can be saved. This is totally unbiblical. The correct order is this: Justification produces gratitude, gratitude produces love. He who is forgiven much loves much.

Straw man representation above. No one who is accused of so-called lordship salvation says a person must first love the Lord with all their heart, mind and strength and then they are saved.

What they are actually teaching is that one cannot do this at all until they are born again/converted. After this transaction they bear this fruit and evidence of salvation, and not prior.

Therefore they are merely teaching what a truly converted person looks like in contrast to those who are not. Jesus' teachings in the Gospel accounts do the same.

 

[clark thompson]

My view is because He saves us, we have a love for Him.

 

[JLR1300]

Straw man representation above. No one who is accused of so-called lordship salvation says a person must first love the Lord with all their heart, mind and strength and then they are saved.

What they are actually teaching is that one cannot do this at all until they are born again/converted. After this transaction they bear this fruit and evidence of salvation, and not prior.

Therefore they are merely teaching what a truly converted person looks like in contrast to those who are not. Jesus' teachings in the Gospel accounts do the same.

I think you are correct that some of the Lordship people are saying what you are saying but not all of them. There are different types. I don't have any problem at all with the ones that say that as soon as we are justified the Spirit enters us and then starts producing the fruits of the Spirit and of course Paul says that the first fruit the Spirit is love. A person who has been regenerated and has the Spirit produces love. That is true.

However, I have run across some Lordship people who say that before Justification you have to love God. This is the only type of Lordship person that I am disagreeing with. And I certainly don't have a problem with saying that a person who has been justified will follow it with works and godliness.

So I don't want to paint all Lordship people with a broad brush. My only point is this. Regeneration by itself will not produce the fruit of the Spirit. You have to be regenerated and have faith and then be justified AND ONLY THEN will the Holy Spirit enter and indwell you as His Temple. You can't get the Spirit to indwell you prior to justification because the HOLY Spirit will not live in a legally unclean temple.... and before you are justified you are legally unclean. But AFTER you are justified the Holy Spirit will live in you and will begin to produce the fruit of the Spirit.... which is love for God and Goodness etc.

Some Calvinists think that regeneration alone will produce Love for God. So they think that you are regenerated and then that causes Love for God and Faith... which brings justification. Those are the people I am talking about. I think that regeneration causes faith...(I too am Calvinistic)... and that faith brings justification... which makes us a clean temple for the Spirit to enter.... so He enters us and then produces the fruit of the Spirit which Paul tells us is LOVE and goodness and self-control etc. So Love follows justification

 

[preacher4truth]

My view is because He saves us, we have a love for Him.

Yes...'we love Him because He first loved us' -- 1 John 4:19.

We shouldn't get the cart before the horse. Thanks for your concise response.

 

[preacher4truth]

My only point is this. Regeneration by itself will not produce the fruit of the Spirit. You have to be regenerated and have faith and then be justified AND ONLY THEN will the Holy Spirit enter and indwell you as His Temple. You can't get the Spirit to indwell you prior to justification because the HOLY Spirit will not live in a legally unclean temple.... and before you are justified you are legally unclean. But AFTER you are justified the Holy Spirit will live in you and will begin to produce the fruit of the Spirit.... which is love for God and Goodness etc.

What you're saying here sounds much worse than the accusations of the lordship salvation persons you allude to. It all sounds like a works gospel of what man must do and accomplish. All I said was that after a man is truly converted then and only then will the person love the Lord. THAT is the so called 'lordship salvation'.

 

[JLR1300]

What you're saying here sounds much worse than the accusations of the lordship salvation persons you allude to. It all sounds like a works gospel of what man must do and accomplish. All I said was that after a man is truly converted then and only then will the person love the Lord. THAT is the so called 'lordship salvation'.

Well to be honest I can't really understand what you are saying. I certainly agree with you that "after a man is truly converted then and only then will the person love the Lord." I totally agree. I'm sure I agree with some of the Lordship positions too... but not on some of them as described by some people.

I will have to say that it's hard for me to see why you would think that I am teaching a works salvation.... or maybe you are simply agreeing that I am accusing some Lordship persons of teaching a works salvation? What you are saying isn't clear to me.

Anyway I certainly am not teaching works salvation. In fact what I am saying is the opposite of works. I am saying that God chose us.... (that isn't a work of ours) then that God regenerates us...which means that He gives us the new birth. (We don't do anything to cause that.) Then that new birth causes faith. (faith is a gift) then God justifies us....which means He officially forgives our sins. (That is something He does... not us) Then the Holy Spirit enters us and produces the fruit of the Spirit which begins with love for God. So I just can't imagine why you would think that I am teaching any works for salvation. Nevertheless, thanks for your comments and have a wonderful evening!

 

[JLR1300]

Hey everyone thanks for reading my post..... It is Friday evening and I am going to be gone for a couple of days.... (I can't always post over the weekend) So if you ask me anything I am not ignoring you. Have a good weekend my friends and God bless you...

 

[preacher4truth]

Well to be honest I can't really understand what you are saying. I certainly agree with you that "after a man is truly converted then and only then will the person love the Lord." I totally agree. I'm sure I agree with some of the Lordship positions too... but not on some of them as described by some people.

I will have to say that it's hard for me to see why you would think that I am teaching a works salvation.... or maybe you are simply agreeing that I am accusing some Lordship persons of teaching a works salvation? What you are saying isn't clear to me.

Anyway I certainly am not teaching works salvation. In fact what I am saying is the opposite of works. I am saying that God chose us.... (that isn't a work of ours) then that God regenerates us...which means that He gives us the new birth. (We don't do anything to cause that.) Then that new birth causes faith. (faith is a gift) then God justifies us....which means He officially forgives our sins. (That is something He does... not us) Then the Holy Spirit enters us and produces the fruit of the Spirit which begins with love for God. So I just can't imagine why you would think that I am teaching any works for salvation. Nevertheless, thanks for your comments and have a wonderful evening!

Bro you're mixing up some other works group(s) and falsely labeling them 'lordship salvationists'. Your understanding of LS is muddled with some fallacies. In fact most completely misunderstand this and mix up evidence of salvation with works.

I believe MacArthur was the first one labelled as this. Youtube him sometime and you can hear him explain and defend his position. Many falsely accuse him and make him their whipping boy.

 

[skypair]

Lordship Salvationists believe that in order to be justified a sinner must resolve to put Jesus first in their lives and to love Him supremely.

JLR .. I've discovered something like this. You are, of course, talking about John MacArthur's view. What the view says to me is that you have to do something more than just believe. That, IMO, it true. But in his way of delineating it, it is sort of like "works" salvation.

Here is what I understand to be the relationship of salvation to Lordship to love. Belief in the gospel gives us the "power to become the sons of God," Jn 1:12. And John is right, too, in that we must exercise that "power" by establishing a relationship with God through, "in the name of," Jesus Christ. But the Bible teaches us that we do this by a prayer of repentance FROM self will and sin and TO trusting in His will and life (as we know, He is Lord whether we acknowledge Him or not).

It is at this point that we receive the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38. Now we come under grace or "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed me from the [Mosaic] law of sin and death," Ro 8:2. What is that law of the Spirit? It has 2 commandments: Love God and love others. And this can only be done my the presence of the Spirit in us working out into our minds (spirit) and into our flesh (behavior). Love 1) fulfills all the law because 2) what is done in love is never evil, self-serving, etc.

If we act out of love of God and others, does that make God Lord in our lives? Absolutely! In fact, it gives control of every thing we do to the Spirit of God!! And it frees us from sin!

So is Lordship wrong about love? 'Fraid so. It is on the right path but it does miss the mark because it focuses on what we do — not what the Spirit does once we are saved!

"Faith, hope, love" — and the greatest of these??

skypair

 

[JLR1300]

Yes, Skypair I agree with a lot of what you said...

Hey, I was just thinking about Israel. When they were in Egypt the death Angel came by and all that they did to avoid death was to put the blood of the lamb on their doorposts. Later Moses delivered them from the Egyptians. So now they were SAVED!!! (Metaphorically speaking) So then the Lord said to them.... Now that I have delivered you here are some commandments and also ten commandments I want you to keep. Notice the order. God covers us with the blood and delivers us. Then he says.... Ok now that you have looked to the blood and are saved.... I have some commandments you need to keep. 1. The greatest commandment....(Love the Lord your God) and 2. The ten commandments (which really are just love God and love your neighbor.

Have a great day guys!

 

[JM]

I would say that if you believe in Jesus Christ He is not only your Saviour from sin but Lord of your life. The Law is awesome! I delight in it for it shows me my need for Jesus Christ alone to save me.

Albert N. Martin Audio Messages on The Moral Law of God
Albert N Martin 18 Sermon on the Mount One Jot or One Tittle of the Law Matthew 5 18
It took me a long time to understand the Law and Gospel distinction but Albert N. Martin helped, so did John Gill, A. W. Pink, The Marrow of Modern Divinity, etc.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Emmy]

Dear JLR1300. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " the first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as you love thyself." In verse 40: Jesus states this fact: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus is asked:
" Master, what must I do to inherit eternal Life?" Jesus tells him: " You know the two Commandments, to Love God with all your beings, and to love your neighbour as you love thyself. " Then Jesus tells the man who asked Jesus:
" DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE." God is Love, and God wants our love freely given and NO tags attached. Love is a Christian`s strong weapon, Love will help us overcome all anger and malice.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," then start loving and caring for all you know and all you meet: TREAT THEM AS YOU WOULD LOVE TO BE TREATED. God will notice and God will approve and bless you, you might stumble and forget at times, but then ask God to forgive you, and carry on loving and caring. Love is very catching, and you will find that people will treat you, as you treat people. Life will become enjoyable. Matthew 7: 7-10: tells us to " Ask and you shall receive," ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and start sharing all Love and Joy with your neighbour. The Holy Spirit will help and guide you, and Jesus our Saviour will lead you all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. God wants our Love, and in Matthew 7: 7-10: we ask and we will receive. Then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour.
I say this with love, JLR. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

Dear JLR1300. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " the first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as you love thyself." In verse 40: Jesus states this fact: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus is asked:
" Master, what must I do to inherit eternal Life?" Jesus tells him: " You know the two Commandments, to Love God with all your beings, and to love your neighbour as you love thyself. " Then Jesus tells the man who asked Jesus:
" DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE." God is Love, and God wants our love freely given and NO tags attached. Love is a Christian`s strong weapon, Love will help us overcome all anger and malice.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," then start loving and caring for all you know and all you meet: TREAT THEM AS YOU WOULD LOVE TO BE TREATED. God will notice and God will approve and bless you, you might stumble and forget at times, but then ask God to forgive you, and carry on loving and caring. Love is very catching, and you will find that people will treat you, as you treat people. Life will become enjoyable. Matthew 7: 7-10: tells us to " Ask and you shall receive," ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and start sharing all Love and Joy with your neighbour. The Holy Spirit will help and guide you, and Jesus our Saviour will lead you all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. God wants our Love, and in Matthew 7: 7-10: we ask and we will receive. Then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour.
I say this with love, JLR. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

So the Christ of God was telling us (via His words to this man) what we can do in order to, and by our doing, go to heaven? I don't think that was the point of the passages you've used. It's notable that you've capitalized 'DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE' giving emphasis to a person doing something (works) and thereby gaining eternal life. Such an interpretation goes against the balance of soteriological truths contained in the Scriptures.

Is it possible you are completely misunderstanding the texts?

 

[JLR1300]

Emmy....

You mentioned this scripture from Luke....


25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


When we read the New Testament we find that Judaism was completely invested in the idea that one could keep the law of Moses and gain eternal life by works. In the book of Matthew prior to the crucifixion of Christ, Jesus spoke in a way that on the surface went along with the importance of the law but was designed to explain the law so well that people would despair of being saved by the works of the law.



So in the sermon on the mount Jesus quoted the law but explained the scope and depth and requirements of it so well that by the end of the sermon anyone should have been in absolute despair about thinking they could keep the law well enough to be saved. Jesus said that the law's requirement to not kill really meant don't even be angry without good cause. Do not commit adultery meant don't even lust. Even one idle word is not permitted and we must be perfect even as the Father in Heaven is perfect. This is what the law required. Jesus was trying to bring people to despair about being saved by the law so that they would realize their need for a savior to die for their sin. Jesus was preparing the people for the gospel.


In the same way when the Lawyers stood up to TEMPT Him... (their motives were impure) and they asked Him "what shall I DO to inherit eternal life" They (as Lawyers) wanted to know what legal things they could DO to gain eternal life. So Jesus asked them what they thought the answer was... and they said that the answer was to love God perfectly...in other words, with ALL of the heart ALL of the soul ALL of the strength and ALL of the mind. Also to always love their fellow man every bit as much as they love themselves. Jesus said that that was indeed what the law required if you want eternal life (by the law). The lawyers were perfectly satisfied with that. They were happy to imagine that they could do that which no one has ever succeeded in doing. Perfect love to God and man for a lifetime. Jesus assured them that if they could actually do that they would indeed live.



You have to understand that the purpose of the law is to cause us to see that we are not good enough to be saved by works. After the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ the Apostles taught again and again that "by the works of the law shall no man be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin". Therefore, instead of looking to be justified by the law we must realize that we can only be justified by faith... by believing Jesus died to pay for our sin and trusting His blood to cover our sin and rescue us from the wrath of God.



Loving God is the result of getting saved not how to get saved in the first place. If we make it how to get saved in the first place we are trying to be saved by works.

 

[mikedsjr]

Skypair, can you give the verses that say, or demonstrate, we are to pray for repentance from self will and sin to trusting in His will and life? Are you referring to the sinners prayer?

 

[bcbsr]

Can a person be saved who rejects Jesus as Lord?

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:9

 

[JLR1300]

Can a person be saved who rejects Jesus as Lord?

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:9

What we need to understand is that as soon as God gives us the faith to believe that Jesus is the Divine Lord and that His death saves us and not our works, we are saved and the Spirit enters us. With the Spirit in us it is impossible to reject Jesus as our Master.

Faith isn't works. It is just believing that Jesus is God and trusting His blood to cover our sins and not depending on our works. But as soon as we truly believe the Holy Spirit enters us... then that makes it impossible not to Love Jesus. Thanks...