Life from lifelessness?

[Steezie]

One of the biggest things creationists hinge on is where the building blocks of life came from, how did they arise out of nothing?

Well today, there might actually be an answer to that question.

In the Febuary 2008 issue of Discover magazine contains an article called Did Life Begin In Ice? Now Im trying to locate a digital copy of this article but I cant seem to find it, if anyone wants to try and look, that would be appreciated.

I'll try to sum up the article as best I can.

A scientist, Stanley Miller, has kept a vial containing cyanide and ammonia at -108 degrees F. Now the mixture should be colorless, indicating no reaction. However after examining the vial, it had turned an amber color which is indicative of organic molecules being formed. Further tests concluded that the mixture had formed nucleobases, the building blocks of RNA, DNA, and Amino Acids. The building blocks of life. So it does seem that in-organic compounds, if combined and treated properly, can give rise to the basis of life

 

[Washington]

Article from the blog, Science & Soul: Learning the Science of Life

We all remember that heat speeds up chemical reactions. Ergo the first organic material was forged in the warm primordial soup of the early world. Simple. Boom. Done deal. Or maybe not. New findings are backing up a theory that life originated in ice.​

In 1997, Stanley Miller put ammonia and cyanide (two simple compounds that scientists believe were readily present on the early planet) into a vial and kept it frozen at -77.8 degrees Celsius (or -108 degrees Fahrenheit for American systemophiles (yes I just made that word up)) for twenty-five years. Instead of being colorless, as the concoction originally was, it was amber, a color of complex polymers of organic molecules when revealed. So what was in the vial? Nucleotides: the building blocks of RNA and DNA, amino acids: the building blocks of proteins, and chains of RNA. So ice might have been a favorable environment to generate the first self-replicating molecules, a precondition for life. RNA is short for ribonucleic acids. RNA encodes the production of proteins from amino acids, which in turn produce organisms.​

Alright, so RNA was present. Big deal. The big deal is that the RNA was self-replicating. That is RNA can produce more and more of itself without assistance from any other organic compound. RNA molecules turn out to fall apart relatively easily in warm conditions outside of cells. Freezing will actually speed up the replication of RNA. The ice contains tiny compartments that hold the segments of RNA in place, where it can react together. Some of these reactions actually produce longer chains of RNA molecules. These longer chains of RNA molecules can create enzymes which are chemical compounds that do funky stuff in chemical reactions like speeding them up and increasing the product. A young scientists Alexander Vlassov discovered why this happens so easily in ice. He was trying to develop RNA enzymes for a cure for Hepatitis. Although he started with whole chains of RNA, whenever he exposed them to a room temperature, the pieces would break apart. and every time he froze them in order to purify the segments, the RNA would spontaneously couple at the ends to form a circle. This occurs because when hairpin, an enzyme that cuts RNA chains, is frozen, it acted in reverse; glued the RNA together instead. When an enzyme cuts an RNA chain, a water molecule is expelled. By removing most of the liquid water, ice creates conditions that allow the RNA enzyme to work in just one direction, joining RNA chains. Although enzymes can be produced in warm environments, it seems that they are very short and ergo ineffective. Freezing, however, stabilizes the complexes formed from smaller segments of RNA and produces more effective enzymes. Also interesting, the RNA enzymes in cold environments joined with almost any molecule, which can attribute for the variety of sequences necessary for biological diversity.​

Great. So RNA came before DNA and it may very well have began to form in ice. What does it all mean? It means that simple life forms or perquisites to life may be found on planets formerly thought to be inhospitable. “Extraterrestrial” life may be found in our very own solar system! Europa, a moon of Jupiter, Titan, a moon of Saturn, or Mars, all have frozen water (ice, duh), which very well may mean that simple life can be found there. They may not be green, thin men, but these aliens could prove that we are not alone in the cosmos. We have entered a place called … “The Twilight Zone.” [Cue Twilight Zone music]​

source

 

[Naraoia]

source

I've heard about the nucleotides-in-ice thing but... good proper efficient self-rep? Oww, I needs a paaaper! NOWWW! *drool*

Should be a nice one for the improbability guys

 

[sbvera13]

Major win. I must know more.... curiosity.... droool....

 

[AV1611VET]

One of the biggest things creationists hinge on is where the building blocks of life came from, how did they arise out of nothing?

We do?

 

[Steezie]

We do?

From what I've seen here, yeah, you do.

Got anything constructive to add?

 

[MoonLancer]

you do

 

[AV1611VET]

From what I've seen here, yeah, you do.

Got anything constructive to add?

Ya --- God did it --- [Fremen]: Bi la kaifa!

 

[Steezie]

Ya --- God did it --- [Fremen]: Bi la kaifa!

And it apparently looks like God DIDNT do it, life can arise via chemical means without the help of a creator god

 

[AV1611VET]

And it apparently looks like God DIDNT do it, life can arise via chemical means without the help of a creator god

God beat your "chemical means" to it; He did it without chemicals.

 

[tanzanos]

God beat your "chemical means" to it; He did it without chemicals.

You mean to tell me that you are not made up of chemicals?

Wow! Now the creationists are dismissing Chemistry.

 

[AV1611VET]

You mean to tell me that you are not made up of chemicals?

Wow! Now the creationists are dismissing Chemistry.

I'm talking about the method, not the product.

 

[tanzanos]

I'm talking about the method, not the product.

God did not use chemicals to create man; Yet man is totally comprised of chemicals!

Do you see the oxymoron here?

I stand by my statement that Creationists dismiss Chemistry!

 

[AV1611VET]

God did not use chemicals to create man; Yet man is totally comprised of chemicals!

Do you see the oxymoron here?

No, I don't see the oxymoron here. It's called creatio ex nihilo, not creatio ex materia.

I stand by my statement that Creationists dismiss Chemistry!

You're entitled to do so, but you're just making yourself look bad.

 

[Psudopod]

Chemicals are clearly bad anyway.

Ban Di Hydrogen Monoxide!

 

[tanzanos]

No, I don't see the oxymoron here. It's called creatio ex nihilo, not creatio ex materia.

OXYMORON
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
[Greek oxumōron, from neuter of oxumōros, pointedly foolish : oxus, sharp; see oxygen + mōros, foolish, dull.]
oxymoronic ox'y·mo·ron'ic (-mə-rŏn'ĭk) adj.
oxymoronically ox'y·mo·ron'i·cal·ly adv.
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Therefore
God created man without chemicals and man is comprised purely of chemicals; fits the description given above.

You're entitled to do so, but you're just making yourself look bad.

And so are you. But that would mean that ALL the scientists worldwide look bad too!
Really now AV; Don't you think that your arguments are a little childish?

You can believe in a God if you wish, but to dismiss science just because of your belief? That makes you, look bad!

 

[AV1611VET]

You can believe in a God if you wish, but to dismiss science just because of your belief? That makes you, look bad!

And how does it make me look if I hold science up to a higher Standard, instead?

 

[MrGoodBytes]

And how does it make me look if I hold science up to a higher Standard, instead?

How should we know? So far you have demonstrated the exact opposite.

 

[MoonLancer]

And how does it make me look if I hold science up to a higher Standard, instead?

would this higher standard be gods standard? You use a supernatural explanation and claim thats holding science in higher regard? You don't know very much about science then do you?

 

[Naraoia]

<never mind>