Leaving the Church in full knowledge?

[TomUK]

A thread i read earlier which was started by Benedictine has got me thinking.

Imagine that a Priest decided to leave the Roman Catholic and join another Christian denomination (not any of the branches or Orthodoxy). Would that constitute him rejecting the Catholic Church in full knowledge?

 

[King of the Nations]

A thread i read earlier which was started by Benedictine has got me thinking.

Imagine that a Priest decided to leave the Roman Catholic and join another Christian denomination (not any of the branches or Orthodoxy). Would that constitute him rejecting the Catholic Church in full knowledge?

That would depend on whether or not he...had full knowledge.



In other words, we can't tell just by appearances.

One would assume that, of all Catholics, a priest would have one of the highest levels of "knowledge". But this is not an absolute guarantee. He may have been catechized poorly both in seminary and before or may have some profound emotional vacuum that overrides his ability to reason that he tries to fill in another community, etc. (Note that "knowledge" refers to more than just "mental facts".) We don't know for sure...

Greg

 

[poppinskw]

Hi Tom

Sometimes people can do something and think they have full knowledge of something when in reality they only partially understand something.

God is the only one that can know a mans heart and how much knowledge he has of what he is doing. To know something in ones head is only knowledge....a worldy sort of head knowledge..... but when that knowledge moves that 12 inches to the heart then it becomes something different...

I believe then it becomes full knowledge. I personally cannot believe that anyone would leave the Church having full knowledge of what they are doing.

But I know that someone will come soon that will have a proper answer

Blessings

Les

oops lol I see Greg came along

 

[epiclesis]

only God would know if they had full knowlege. I've met a priest with about 30 years in that could not answer extremely simple questions about original sin... and a couple of teenagers could handle the answers.

 

[QuantaCura]

The sin of leaving is objectively very grave--but God will judge if he has mitigating circumstances, He alone knows the secrets of men's hearts.

 

[Markh]

people do go to hell, more people go to hell than heaven.

If that priest doesn't directly commit mortal sin from apostasising, then indirectly, without the graces of the sacraments he will almost certainly be lost from commiting other mortal sins.

We are being too charitable with this "full knowledge" it is much easier than you or I imagine.

I think most people on OBOB seem to have it that no one does anything in "full knowledge" - it was their upbringing, their poor education, etc etc

this is nonsense. People do go to hell, many people, get that in your skull and start praying and fasting for them like Blessed Jacinta and Francisco.

 

[QuantaCura]

Good point Markh. Also pride is a mortal sin and often times it is through pride that we suppress this knowledge. We convince outselves something is not true, when in the secrets of our hearts we knew it is. If you should have known, but you don't, that is a mortal sin too.

 

[outhwaar]

more people go to hell than heaven.

I do not think that we can know this. Was Christ's saving work so ineffective? He knew that the people He was redeeming were weak and prone to fall back again and again into sin. Do you realy believe salvation is only for the few?

 

[CrusaderKing]

I do not think that we can know this. Was Christ's saving work so ineffective? He knew that the people He was redeeming were weak and prone to fall back again and again into sin. Do you realy believe salvation is only for the few?

Salvation is offered for all, but many have rejected the gift. It's the rejection that can ultimately condemn, though other unrepented mortal sins don't help either. Christ's saving work is effective for those that accept the gift and strive to sin no more.

 

[Kotton]

only God would know if they had full knowlege. I've met a priest with about 30 years in that could not answer extremely simple questions about original sin... and a couple of teenagers could handle the answers.

Reminds me of reading a 'priest's testament' on a anti-Catholic site, claiming he never heard of the salvation of Jesus Christ until leaving. Whether true or not, my reaction was, "I learned all that in Catholic elementary school."

Kotton

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Why would any Priest who had full knowledge leave to begin with? Pride, Willfullness, Arogance, etc..... I'm not a Catholic Theologian.....but it seems so.........what things seem, and what things are can be 2 different things though. Hypotheticals are just that..............

 

[CrusaderKing]

I agree with you. There are a number of reasons a priest would leave the church and I can't think of very many of them that are that holy.

 

[FullyMT]

Markh, none of us are saying that we should not do the things you have mentioned. However, all of us are very aware that we cannot say that the priest is going to Hell.
We all agree that we should pray and fast for the conversion of sinners into the Church.

 

[outhwaar]

Salvation is offered for all, but many have rejected the gift. It's the rejection that can ultimately condemn, though other unrepented mortal sins don't help either. Christ's saving work is effective for those that accept the gift and strive to sin no more.

Yes, I know all that. My main point was that your statement that "more people go to hell than heaven" seems to imply a level of knowledge that we do not have. I maintain that we cannot know that it is true that more people go to hell than heaven. And we can hope and pray that it is not.

 

[outhwaar]

I do agree with your original point that the idea of "full knowledge" can be one of those things that get stretched and played with to such a degree that they lose all meaning - much like "the health of the mother" or "it depends what the meaning of 'is' is".

 

[zhilan]

This is something that always confused me. I heard some priests say that it's basically impossible to commit a mortal sin because if you had full knowledge you woudlnt' do it. Others say it's quite easy.

 

[MariaRegina]

Are you referring to the recent excommunication of the African Archbishop?

 

[TomUK]

Are you referring to the recent excommunication of the African Archbishop?

Not really, but it's certainly a convenient illustration.

 

[King of the Nations]

This is something that always confused me. I heard some priests say that it's basically impossible to commit a mortal sin because if you had full knowledge you woudlnt' do it. Others say it's quite easy.

Highlighting this to try and remind myself to come back later to address it...

Greg