LCMS and Evolution

[Daniel9v9]

Catholics believe the Word of God whether oral or written, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. The Catholic Church pre-dated the New Testament. While belief in the understanding of the Holy Trinity, purgatory, etc. are not specifically spelled out in the Bible, they are supported by the Bible. The Catholic Church never intended the 73 books of the Bible to be a Catechism or Encyclopedia containing all knowledge of God, it is a collection of text that the Church deemed was God-breathed.

There are several things that I have to take issue with here, but I’ll stay with the doctrine of Purgatory — it’s simply not found in God’s Word nor in the early Church. Any doctrine that has no command, promise, or example in the Scriptures is not of the Holy Spirit. While I appreciate that the Roman Catholic Church appeal to Holy Tradition, we cannot — not on matters that are contrary to His Word.

I’ll leave it at this as I think it’s reasonably clear that the doctrine comes out of tradition and not Scriptures, and I don’t want to derail this thread any further.

 

[Valletta]

Good to know! I was brought up buying Mass Cards for the families of friends who’ve died. My family spent money to buy them so they didn’t go to Pugatory. Or something.
And off topic, a priest at my former church insinuated that I wasn’t getting the Eucharist at the Lutheran church. He told me to contact him if I ever wanted to come back to the Eucharist. So, I was still trying to get used to the idea of the Eucharist at the Lutheran church then he said that and so, I’m wondering about that, too.

It is Catholic teaching that bishops and priests are from an unbroken line from the Apostles, and it takes a priest to perform the Eucharistic sacrament. The Eucharist is the center of our faith. The Catholic Catechism refers to the Holy Eucharist as "the source and summit of the Christian life." As the Bible says: So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. John 6:53-56 RSVCE
Lutherans have a different view of the Eucharist than Catholics. Again, from the Catholic perspective the Lutheran version of the Eucharist is not valid.

 

[FaithT]

It is Catholic teaching that bishops and priests are from an unbroken line from the Apostles, and it takes a priest to perform the Eucharistic sacrament. The Eucharist is the center of our faith. The Catholic Catechism refers to the Holy Eucharist as "the source and summit of the Christian life." As the Bible says: So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. John 6:53-56 RSVCE
Lutherans have a different view of the Eucharist than Catholics. Again, from the Catholic perspective the Lutheran version of the Eucharist is not valid.

I know that that’s the opinion of Catholics. It’s not the opinion of Lutherans.

 

[FaithT]

Good to know! I was brought up buying Mass Cards for the families of friends who’ve died. My family spent money to buy them so they didn’t go to Pugatory. Or something.
And off topic, a priest at my former church insinuated that I wasn’t getting the Eucharist at the Lutheran church. He told me to contact him if I ever wanted to come back to the Eucharist. So, I was still trying to get used to the idea of the Eucharist at the Lutheran church then he said that and so, I’m wondering about that, too.

Tell us more about the Lutheran Eucharist vs Catholic Eucharist. Was the priest right?

 

[Valletta]

Tell us more about the Lutheran Eucharist vs Catholic Eucharist. Was the priest right?

There are a lot of similarities, Luther was a Catholic priest that broke away from the Church and had some of his own ideas about the Eucharist which I understand are different than modern day Lutherans. I would not presume to tell you what modern day Lutherans believe. But for Catholics it has been almost 2000 years of priests whom I would say the most important function remains to say mass.

 

[Daniel9v9]

There are a lot of similarities, Luther was a Catholic priest that broke away from the Church and had some of his own ideas about the Eucharist which I understand are different than modern day Lutherans. I would not presume to tell you what modern day Lutherans believe. But for Catholics it has been almost 2000 years of priests whom I would say the most important function remains to say mass.

This is inaccurate. (1) Luther did not break away from the Church. First of all, Luther was thrown out by one party of the church, which many believed was in need of repentance — it's not as if he had his own unique ideas about the Eucharist and started a new church —, and secondly, it's a mistake to focus so much on one man when there was in fact a whole body of churches that were convicted by God's Word to reform — that is, to throw out whatever is contrary to the written Word, but in our freedom in Christ, keep tradition that is adiaphora (things neither commanded nor forbidden by Scripture). (2) We believe, teach, and confess that the bread and the wine are the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the ancient teaching in simplicity. This is what the early Church taught, this is what the reformers taught, and this is what we still teach. You may be conflating the Lutheran Church with other church bodies, such as those who followed in the steps of Zwingli and Calvin, which we don't. That would be the Reformed church and their daughter bodies, and to some degree, the Anglican Church.

If you're interested in Church history and the Lutheran reformation, I can recommend reading our Confessions for a clearer understanding. I've published an older translation of it for free here with added references: CONCORDIA – Luco

Also, I feel like I should add a gentle reminder that this is the Lutheran forum and that this thread is not about differences between the Roman and Lutheran churches, which is why I've refrained from responding to much of the above.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Good to know! I was brought up buying Mass Cards for the families of friends who’ve died. My family spent money to buy them so they didn’t go to Pugatory. Or something.
And off topic, a priest at my former church insinuated that I wasn’t getting the Eucharist at the Lutheran church. He told me to contact him if I ever wanted to come back to the Eucharist. So, I was still trying to get used to the idea of the Eucharist at the Lutheran church then he said that and so, I’m wondering about that, too.

First, we do not deny that the Catholic Church does have valid Eucharist.

Some Lutheran Churches do claim (and actually do have by the "Catholic" definition) valid Apostolic Succession. Interestingly for these Churches, the efficacy of the Eucharist is not linked to the validity of Apostolic succession; rather, it is the words of our Lord connected with the elements (bread and wine). Note: The Catholic Church, while recognizing a valid Apostolic Succession, view their "priesthood" as being illicit (illegal) because they do not submit to the authority of Rome.

General consensus among Lutherans is that the "unbroken" line remains even in Churches that don't have historic Bishops through "Consistory" ordination (ordination by ordained clergy).

To paraphrase our Confessions: Word and Sacrament remain efficacious even when administered by evil men.

 

[FaithT]

First, we do not deny that the Catholic Church does have valid Eucharist.
.

But we do too, right?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

But we do too, right?

Yes, below is my previous post; see the bit in red.

First, we do not deny that the Catholic Church does have valid Eucharist.

Some Lutheran Churches do claim (and actually do have by the "Catholic" definition) valid Apostolic Succession. Interestingly for these Churches, the efficacy of the Eucharist is not linked to the validity of Apostolic succession; rather, it is the words of our Lord connected with the elements (bread and wine). Note: The Catholic Church, while recognizing a valid Apostolic Succession, view their "priesthood" as being illicit (illegal) because they do not submit to the authority of Rome.

General consensus among Lutherans is that the "unbroken" line remains even in Churches that don't have historic Bishops through "Consistory" ordination (ordination by ordained clergy).

To paraphrase our Confessions: Word and Sacrament remain efficacious even when administered by evil men.